Misused: Ending Aversion

I suppose.

By the way, I dunno if this was asked before, but does an ending have to be disliked by at least the majority of the fanbase to qualify, or can an ending disliked by at least half the fandom also qualify? For example, Puella Magi Madoka Magica The Movie: Rebellion, which is on the list, does have a substantial section of the fanbase who either love or don’t mind the ending, just as it has a substantial section who consider it a Dethroning Moment of Suck and wish it was never made.

It requires enough not like it that even those who haven't seen the work hear about it and outright avoid the work over it.

For merely divisive ending like Rebellion, I'd say no unless there's objective evidence it drove away so many fans non-fans can see the effects. Such include the fanbase becoming less prominent if not outright disappearing from mainstream (Game of Thrones), the fanbase seemingly unable to talk about anything else (Star vs. the Forces of Evil) or retroactive loss of interest in the series even if past parts were well received initially (Star Wars Sequel Trilogy). I don't believe Rebellion got that kind of backlash.

How should Disappointing Last Level play into it? I'm going to say it's separate, but can overlap, ass AAE is about narrative and DLL is gameplay (which I believe has no widespread enough instances of causing AAE tier backlash).

Huh, I would've made Ending Aversion a disambig with No Ending, since I'm reading it as Averting the idea of an Ending.

I know the name reads that way, but the tropes are unrelated apart from both being ending tropes. (although having No Ending can contribute to Ending Aversion)

No Ending: The work lacks a closing or resolution, it just stops, effectively. This is when it's the result of a deliberate narrative choice, if the show stops unresolved due to outside factors, it's Cut Short.

Ending Aversion: An ending is notoriously terrible or unsatisfying, to the point where people refuse to consume the media due to the ending alone.

Per Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup, Pokémon the Series: XY should be moved to Audience-Alienating Ending as while a chapter of Pokémon: The Series it is big enough to be considered it's own series. Before moving some thoughts:

• If we expand AAE to allow whole story arcs as opposed to just series finales, how do we draw the line at what's too short to count as AAE and is just Fanon Discontinuity? (Single or back-to-back episodes/chapters I'd assume are too short as leaving too little before the ending to be retroactively ruined. What about multi-chapter arcs in books or other mediums equivalences?) Or does it only apply to XY as a rare case where the arc is treated as series in and of itself?
• As The Series was successful enough to continue despite XY's ending (and Game of Thrones still got good viewing numbers during the pandemic), how do we define backlash against the ending beyond regular Fanon Discontinuity if not objective ratings/success? Is the overall popularity not critical as long as it's explained how the backlash is such anyone even causally aware of the work would know/hear about the ending and be turned off the entire work? Or is it that FD is merely pretending the ending didn't happen but still liking the prior parts while AAE means you stop caring about the entire work? Or do/should we allow both?
• For examples like XY, should the six month waiting period be since the part of the ending that causes this or the actual final part to see if it pays it off/lives it down adequately?
• This cleanup states AAE is does not apply if the entire works is disliked/controversial such the ending is not the most notable/prominent complaint. Should that be made official policy?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 31st 2022 at 8:20:04 AM

Those are awfully specific questions for "series's ending tarnishes its reputation and has potential new viewers decide not to watch it".

Are people saying they're going to skip XY and move onto the next series, or saying they regret watching XY and wished they had passed on it?

As for the last question, is it not already part of the definition? AAE is a sub-thingy of OBC, so if the whole thing is controversial, the controversial ending hardly makes a difference.

The "doesn't apply if the whole work was contentious" was there, but there was an AAE example that was cut over this that makes me think that wasn't sufficiently clarified.

I asked the Pokemon forum for their thoughts on the matter.

Also asking about these from ATT.

I asked the Samurai Jack forum about it's ending. The rest I'll remove for the stated reasons on the 7th per Three-Day Rule unless I hear anything.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 4th 2022 at 11:53:18 AM

Ash vs Alain was not the Season Finale. Therefore, it does not qualify for Audience Alienating Ending regardless of the merits of OBC, which is presently listed as AAE's Super-Trope.

I would say SU:Future and Samurai Jack should be removed, as their endings were divisive, but they didn't ruin their respective show's reputation.

Will do. Should I also cut the Gurren Lagann (which is noted to still be adored) and Clone High examples as well for the stated reasons?

If we cut Clone High should we add to the AAE page that ending on an unresolved cliffhanger is not this if they still want to see it resolved as opposed to stop caring about the work?

Update: found this.

• Attack on Titan: The final chapter of the manga was intended to be a dramatic Bittersweet Ending but had so much Narm that it ended up being a giant joke, leading to an avalanche of memes on the internet. Spoilers of the final chapter are still being posted outside of the fandom leading to viewers that haven't seen the ending doubting if it is even the same story. In order to tone down the Flame War that was in the fandom, an extra 15 pages was added to the chapter in the final volume release; it ended up making things worse turning the entire story into a "Shaggy Dog" Story. It proved the final antagonist was correct. Paradis was bombed and the titan powers were reclamed rendering the Alliance's efforts to stop the centuries long war via reconciliation as useless.

While it does explain the backlash visible even to those who havn't seen it, I'm not sure about the dislike retroactively spilling over to the rest of the work part. Thoughts?

I'm thinking the retroactively stop caring about the works as opposed to just disliking the ending aspect is not clear in the description. Or is that required for AAE? (Mass Effect 3 didn't cause this for the prior series. Is it AAE because it was limited to 3 or it was fixed before it could effect the prior works?) Does AAE need retroactive dislike of the prior work or such backlash non-fans hear of it? Or both?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 5th 2022 at 11:00:12 AM

Currently, it just reads as complaining/talking about how the ending was bad. If it did retroactively spill out and cause AAE, it's not mentioned in the example in any way. I'm not familiar with the work or fandom, so I can't say if it is an example or not, but as written it doesn't sound like one.

Update to say 282 wicks left.

Down to 254 wicks, but came across a couple of examples I'm not sure what to do with. Opinions?

YMMV.Arisa: Many readers lose interest in reading to the end after learning that Midori and everyone involved gets Easily Forgiven and nobody really learns anything. Some reviews even warn readers to not even bother getting into this series.

YMMV.Battle For Dream Island: The Season 1 finale, "Return of the Hang Glider", is by far the most divisive episode in the series, with some liking it due to providing a satisfying Bittersweet Ending, while others hate it due to absurdly dark characterizations, several plot threads that were left unresolved, and three main characters being Killed Off for Real and two disappearing.

YMMV.Big Brother: For the subset of Big Brother 23 viewers who did support what the Cookout mission was achieving, but hated the way that the final six played out after that (mostly due to two out of the three final players being considered The Load, and the only player who wasn't The Load being an extremely predictable winner because of this), many prefer to imagine that the game simply ended at Final 6 and the whole Cookout won instead. Helping this interpretation is that Hannah was the one to win the final HOH needed for their success, and as the most universally liked member of the group, it gives that ending a very positive spin for these viewers.

YMMV.Pronunciation Book: The ending is widely considered to be the worst ending to an ARG ever created- after all the buildup, we get a massive Genre Shift from the dark, cryptic messages of Pronunciation Book to the Sequel Hook and subsequent game, Bear Stearns Bravo, a satire that is completely different in tone with everything being Played for Laughs. Many people in the comments of the final video and in videos discussing the topic expressed disappointment that the dramatic 71 day countdown led to a silly web game instead of something more suitably serious and epic. Page cut

Edited by Hello83433 on Apr 9th 2022 at 12:35:19 PM

Pronounciation Book should at least wick Anti-Climax as an objective trope for what happened?

At least given the tropes listed on Audience-Alienating Ending?

Edited by Malady on Apr 6th 2022 at 7:58:54 AM

Speaking as the one who added the Pronunciation Book entry, it was not intended to be an Anti-Climax at all. It was intended to be a grand reveal. It’s just that the reveal was taken poorly by all the comments on the final video (just take a look). Night Mind went into the backlash in one episode.

To be honest, there have been concerns that Anti-Climax should be YMMV as what constitutes one can be subjective.

Okay so Pronunciation Book should be cut (and maybe moved to Anti-Climax? or possibly another YMMV trope?) any ideas on the other three examples?

ETA: Just checked Main and it's listed under Gainax Ending.

Edited by Hello83433 on Apr 6th 2022 at 12:06:22 PM

Should we also place Pokemon The Series: Diamond and Pearl on the list of AAE? It had alot of the same reasons as XYZ and it was much closer to the actual ending of the show. (Ash losing to Tobias was the third to last episode while XYZ still had 10 episodes after Ash losing to Alain)

Once again, Anti-Climax is NOT YMMV, even though it honestly should be. Will probably start a wick check.

I ended up just cutting it, so no worries there.

We're under 200 wicks! I think we can get this done and send this thread to the grave today if we had an extra hand or two (and opinions on contested examples above )

i think we should cut the attack on titan example. the example looks likes complaining about endings you don't like

Edited by namra on Apr 8th 2022 at 10:39:22 AM

Agreed. If it is an example, it needs to be rewritten, as what's there is just whining.

Down to the last 100 wicks!

Any thoughts for the entry on Beastars? I do know that people weren't satisfied with it, but I haven't been able to tell if it adversely affected the work's reception.

I don't see it anymore, so I guess it was taken care of. I am an idiot and can't read, it's still there. The entry does say people avoided the manga after finding about the rushed ending, so I think it stays, but should probably be reworded to focus less on everything wrong with the ending.

What do we do about examples that reference a lack of an ending as a reason to avoid? Are those valid?

Edited by Hello83433 on Apr 11th 2022 at 2:52:56 PM

Alright, 12 YMMV wicks left (that's all that needs to be done).