Too Bleak, Stopped Caring

Not really. It'd just be more subjective masturbation, like Nightmare Fuel.

Not sure about batwoman as DIAA. The Arrowverse and the shows associated with it dosen't seem to be this "so dark and everyone is unlikable" sort of setting.

I admit I'm a few episodes behind (okay, more than a few), but last I checked Batwoman was the classic Batman tone of "the city sucks, and a lot of sucky things happen despite the hero's best efforts, but they can still do good in the process." For example, the episode where the chief of police refuses to call Batwoman for help because she's gay is depressing for most of the episode, but it ends with everyone saved and the chief forced to concede because the rest of the city is on her side.

Right. For DIAA to apply, the heroes' victories can't mean anything. Nothing improves despite their best efforts.

YMMV.Terminator Dark Fate

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: James Cameron has remarked on how disappointed he was in Alien³, and what it did to Hicks and Newt. So let's hurriedly kill a little kid with a shotgun right in front of people his grieving mother. Initially, fans were jazzed to learn that Fox would digitally include T2 John in a small scene via Jude Collie.

One scene does not seem like enough to qualify. It sounds like an attempt to shoehorn in a complaint. Any trope this might fit?

I’ll cut unless I hear anything.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 3rd 2020 at 1:43:23 AM

The first part sounds like it could go on Creator Backlash.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Jul 3rd 2020 at 12:31:29 PM

I found this on Sam & Cat:

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: While Sam's cruel traits are downplayed here compared to iCarly, she still comes off as a hedonistic bully who harasses others with little to no provocation and rarely gets punished for it. The other characters can come off as mean-spirited and unlikable, and even the nice characters such as Dice tend to get shit thrown upon them with no way out.

It's been a while since I have watched this show, but I think this might be a misuse. Am I the only one who thinks so?

Edited by Bullman on Jul 3rd 2020 at 6:03:39 AM

So if single episodes don't count, does this mean that this Gumball example is disqualified? It's always bothered me for the longest time:

• This is one of the reasons why the second season of The Amazing World of Gumball was rather divisive as the Wattersons were gradually flanderized into petty, ungrateful, selfish jerks that there's no one really to root for and, as a result, the show's attempt to be heartwarming comes off feeling forced and unearned. For example, in "The Hero", Gumball and Darwin laugh about how much of a loser their father is with their classmates, which Richard overhears and is wounded by. Instead of explaining how their insensitivity has hurt Richard, Nicole and Anais rage at the boys and decide to refuse them food, starving them into changing their mind for over a week. Darwin realizes the error of his ways while Gumball doubles down on how pathetic he thinks Richard is - verbally tearing into the man with surprising cruelty during the climax, while Richard is in the middle of trying to save his life. It's not an unpopular opinion that the inevitable reconciliation between father and son that happened a minute later felt very unearned and very rushed. This was later lampshaded in "The Finale," where the family is thrown in jail for their actions, and then rectified when the show was later Un-Cancelled.

I feel like this is an excuse to complain about a single episode.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jul 3rd 2020 at 8:25:48 AM

Cut.

Is it still a rule that in order for a work to qualify as DIAA, it has to be cancelled? Because I was under the impression that that was one of the criteria, and if that's true, it would help weed out a lot of mis-applications.

From DarknessInducedAudienceApathy.Western Animation:

• Bojack Horseman. Between its downright bleak tone, morally ambiguous characters, the sheer number of times of good-hearted (or at least well-meaning) characters being screwed over by the oppressive Crapsaccharine World of Hollywoo with the more despicable and powerful ones coming on top, unflinching depictions of mental illness, sexism, dementia, self-destruction, addiction, narcissism, nihilism, the very grim nature of depression and fleeting happiness, coupled with the brutally honest depiction of people's ability to change depending on their will and resignation, it can genuinely leave some viewers jaded, depressed or empty. While most would agree that it makes the characters' finally achieving their goals all the more satisfying, the fact that their progress is so minimal has earned criticisms that this show relies just as much on drama for drama's sake.

Yeah, I don't think this fits. First off, the show was consistently successful largely because of its dramatic arcs, so it fails the "show lost fans for being too dark" criteria (the more lighthearted earlier episodes are the ones that get the most criticism). Secondly, while the show can get distressingly realistic that conflict doesn't easily wrap up, it always insists that people can improve themselves if they put in the effort, even if it won't heal all their wounds. It can definitely trigger depression, but it's wrong to say the show is wholly pessimistic.

The entry on the YMMV page is even worse since it also sounds incredibly complainy, and is outright false (there are several times in the series when people show compassion towards BoJack even after he's done something horrible):

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: While the show's unflinching portrayal of mental illness, sexism, dementia, self-destruction, addiction, narcissism, nihilism, and the very grim nature of depression, as well as the unforgiving world of show business, are it's biggest draws, it's also extremely emotionally taxing, not helped by it's sometimes confusing attempts to juggle irreverent, consequence-free cartoon humor with hyper realistic drama which can make plot-relevant gags feel emotionally unsatisfying or even distasteful for some, as well as an over-reliance on aesop amnesia and happy ending overrides. Combine with the lack of genuinely compassionate characters, if not abundance of unnecessarily hostile ones who only give Bojack any mind when he does something negative, plenty of viewers have said that too much of this is drama for drama's sake and that they don't care whether or not Bojack gets better, not because they don't connect with him but because the world wouldn't deserve a "good" Bojack if he did.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 3:10:32 PM

No, there is no such requirement. That said, if a work is cancelled because its viewership declined, and that decline can be traced to the writers making it so dark that people stopped caring, then it's a solid piece of evidence in favor of a trope entry.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 4th 2020 at 11:24:55 AM

Audience-Alienating Premise is the one that needs to be canceled or have similar objective evidence for such like underperforming sales/viewership.

I'm curious as to why does not have an objective requirement?

YMMV.Terminator Dark Fate

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: James Cameron has remarked on how disappointed he was in Alien³, and what it did to Hicks and Newt. So let's hurriedly kill a little kid with a shotgun right in front of people his grieving mother. Initially, fans were jazzed to learn that Fox would digitally include T2 John in a small scene via Jude Collie.

I say it should be cut as it is only a single moment as opposed to the overall tone. I've got an ATT vote for cutting but would like more approval first.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 4th 2020 at 9:07:40 AM

Yes, that is a gross misuse.

I want to know if a separate page for "this one dark moment/episode makes me feel the work is too dark for me" would be good to have.

Well, if it isn't already Ruined Forever...

Nope. It would be useless.

• Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW) stumbles into this trope with the Metal Virus arc, a Zombie Apocalypse in the Sonic universe played completely straight, and easily the darkest an official Sonic story has ever been. While the idea of Sonic and friends being powerless, even helpless for once is an interesting one, what readers actually get in execution is a depressing slog where the heroes constantly lose whatever small victories they can get, Drs. Eggman and Starline continually make huge strides, and beloved characters undergo a Face–Monster Turn almost once an issue (even Cream isn't safe!). So much emphasis is placed on the loss and suffering caused as a result of said robo-zombie apocalypse that a lot of fans just felt burned out by the time the Darkest Hour hit and Team Sonic finally started clawing their way back from the brink... and one can only imagine how the target audience must have felt. While things obviously get better for the heroes eventually, the one-arc-a-year policy results in eight straight issues of nonstop loss and misery, which unsurprisingly makes for a very draining read. Not helping issues is that of the villains involved in this plot, one has Joker Immunity and the other is a Karma Houdini despite gleefully bounding across the Moral Event Horizon—he has to survive to headline the Villains subline—or that the actual real life Coronavirus pandemic started popping up near the arc’s end, which would make any future reading to be more uncomfortable in retrospect.

I intend to cut the Coronavirus part as it happening at the end means it couldn’t have effected the overall arc. Objections? Should RL causes not be allowed under DIAA as unfair to hold against the writing as it’s outside control?

Yes. Also, put a colon after the work name, remove the "stumbles into this trope with" part, and change the comma after "Metal Virus" into an "is".

YMMV.The Simpsons S 9 E 10 Miracle On Evergreen Terrace

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: While the episode makes for a rarely if ever done turn on the head of typically upbeat and heartstring moving Christmas special episodes with heaps of black humor, this episode would perhaps be one of the first to showcase Springfield's growing heart of darkness that would be prevalent in later episodes, like The Boys of Bummer and even The Springfield Movie, turning Springfield from a place that would have its quirks and had any chance of a doubt that it was not as bad as everyone would portray it as, from proving that it really was "America's Worst City and Crudbucket", and that any and all bad things that happened to its populace outside of The Simpsons family would be entirely justified as "America's Meanest City"; like say, France nuking the entire city from orbit. This constant Humiliation Conga for The Simpson family and marked the point when the show began engaging in becoming a Sadist Show that not even Malcom In the Middle, South Park, or Family Guy would stoop to.

We decided DIAA can't apply to single episodes. But can this count if it is a turning point to DIAA? It sounds hyperbolic as is.

YMMV.Goblins

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: Starts to creep in after Kore kills Chief. That arc was grim enough, but the following horrors happening to Dies Horribly's party and to Minmax's party in their respective dungeon crawls take the strip into full grimdark territory that makes it hard to care. Also Minmax and Kin's relationship is destroyed by giving it a reset through the actions of a third party, retconning away loads of character development, with a rape allegory during their "break up" as a bonus.

How much of this example is correctly using the definition?

I feel like this thread should be moved to long-term projects if we're going to post examples for other people to check here.

Can't say if the situation in question is accurately described, but the correct application of the trope would be to describe the entire portion of the show that supposedly qualifies, not the episode that "changed everything". Also, I have a very hard time believing that The Simpsons really got so dark that it turned people off.

Whoever wrote that clearly hasn't been reading Goblins, because it's been dark as hell for ages. It's Grimdark times Killer GM times Doom Magnet times Crapsack World.

Agreed. I'ma cast teleport here... and POOF.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 17th 2020 at 6:41:00 AM

YMMV.Atypical:

• Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: It was there from the very beginning, but became more and more prominent each season. Simply put, all 4 of the main characters are deeply flawed individuals, whose actions and attitudes can be hard to watch sometimes. It gets worse when both Sam and Casey lose their sympathetic qualities around Season 2, with both of their parents already being quite hard to sympathize with. And even the plot doesn't feel engaging anymore, as many different plot threads are either rushed or conclude unsatisfactory, leaving many to wonder if staying around for the Gardner family is even worth it.

That reads more like Eight Deadly Words that this trope.

Doesn't Eight Deadly Words require a citation? And this show, although very polarizing, has its unironic fans who watch it for its romantic subplot involving Casey and Izzie. It also has a 70-100% on Rotten Tomatoes for each season.

Edited by ccorb on Aug 17th 2020 at 7:01:37 AM