During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay, yeah, that's bad enough. Changing to a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Then we'll be happy to talk about it when it's date comes xie.
I wouldn't rule out Selina just yet either. It's emphasised In-Universe that her ignoring Batman's no kill rule is crossing a line. Even if you interpret it as Pay Evil unto Evil, there's nothing pragmatic about killing him while he's whimpering and helpless aside from personal satisfaction. But more importantly its the effects it has on Bruce both in trying to get him to kill and having to save Kenzie.
Sure she's more sympathetic than most Catwoman, but wouldn't call her squeaky clean either.
I'd say an EP at least is worthwhile so everyone can vote on it
When are the writeups in the drafts going to be posted to the main page? They have been there for so long.
Work
Power Rangers Mystic Force is an installment in the long-running Power Rangers superhero franchise. This season featured a magical theme, with several employees at a record shop gaining Ranger powers and working to defeat a bunch of destructive monsters from rising from the underworld and destroying the world.
Who is Magma?
Magma is one of the Ten Terrors, generals of the underworld who have long been removed from the scope of the conflict but are convinced to join by Necrolai, queen of the vampires, to defeat The Chosen One (Nick, the Red Ranger). The ten Terrors are selected by a stone of judgment that picks whose turn it is to fight. Some of their number are too nasty, too unintelligent or not enough of bastards, but I intend to do EPs for several.
Magma is the first selected, and goes to fight the Rangers and maybe destroy the city. He issued a challenge, setting a tower in fire and saying that if they stop him then he’ll default.
Magma repeatedly beats the Rangers in fights over the episode and it is only through being Determinators that they manage to keep fighting. The tower finishes burning right as Magma is about to engage in a fight that he'll clearly win, and the Rangers are badly beaten but still standing. Magma’s fellow Terrors then inflict a mortal injury on him to honor the rules. Magma is neither angry nor afraid when this happens, and tells the Rangers they still have nine more terrors to face.
Magnificent
He is a valiant fighter who fights the Rangers while offering them a chance at victory just by surviving long enough. When they do survive he is completely resigned and understanding about how it means his own death and defiantly warns them not to think they’ve won just because of his death. While it is arrogant of Magma to undercut himself with the time limit, and he would have won without it, he is willing to live by the rules he set and it could be seen as him wanting to offer the heroes a fair fight rather than just wiping them out like he could have.
He's not quite a Genius Bruiser, but when the Rangers are beating him in his human-sized form, he simply grows bigger to regain the advantage.
Bastard
He’s part of an army that wants to devastate the mortal world and is about to destroy a city before the Rangers impress him enough for him to give them a chance to save it with his contest. He's also eager to be the first selected to fight.
Competition?
Aside from several Ten Terrors, there's not much. The Big Bad and most of the villains from the first 3/4ths of the show can be one dimensional, besides Necrolai and a Good All Along guy who's Brainwashed and Crazy. While Necrolai is has some good scheming and Even Evil Has Loved Ones moments, she can be portrayed inconsistently and has a kind of blatant Chronic Back Stabbing Disorder.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Sakuma, Magma was posted while I was writing this so gimme a minute to read that.
At this moment in time, I'm pretty "ehhh" on Selina, I'll happily encourage a proposal being made but as I've said in PMs to a few folks: Selina is lacking the Gentleman Thief aspects most iterations of her character have at this point, meaning no robbery of innocents or genuine allying with villains worse than herself, so the only bastard thing she has going for is beating and trying to kill Kenzie...moments after she learned that he had an eager hand in the brutal murder of her friend Annika. Is it an Anti-Hero move? Sure. Would we count "beats and tries to kill a minion who had a hand in the death of the candidate's close friend" as being bastard enough for an Anti-Hero in any dime-a-dozen action-thriller like Taken? No, I think most would agree you'd need more than that.
So that leaves the only real argument that might sway me on her: Bruce being a direct moral opposition to her in that moment who she's nonetheless trying to get to help her kill Kenzie. "Just" beating and trying to kill a guy who is the member of a nasty criminal organization and moments ago was revealed as having helped murder Annika—which puts Selina is an emotional, rightfully pissed off state as she's trying to harm Kenzie—isn't really enough for me in a vacuum, but if we wanna hold Bruce outright fighting her on it and going against her wishes to save Kenzie as enough of a moral standing in the film itself, I could maybe be swayed.
She's absolutely not lacking in magnificence, that's not in question for me at all. But subjecting a guy who helped kill her friend and is engaged in other nasty crime to a rough beating and attempted murder is pretty lackluster unless we take the context of Bruce pulling the Thou Shalt Not Kill card on her into account.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 18th 2022 at 11:37:26 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I'm not seeing much cunning or planning with Magma, just burning a tower and giving himself a handicap. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but for now I'm a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
To elaborate on Ravok's point the film is notably ambiguous to the relationship between Selina and Annika. They might be friends, but they might also be more than that, and doing what she does over a dead lover is even more understandable.
Also when Bruce finally talks her down from killing Falcone he outright says, if I remember correctly: "You don't have to pay with him." I think he recognizes that Falcone would probably be better off dead, but he just doesn't want Selina to go to a metaphorical dark place, or a literal one in prison.
Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:45:01 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
The Moron
Still reading the EPs, but User, 43 has said multiple times that he got behind last week and is catching up on pending and drafts, and he also said last week that this one was going to be a double batch instead. That's why they've been in there "so long", and he's made this point repeatedly while asking for patience
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:47:00 PM
Alright, so I'm very happy to hit you guys with this one. Been rewatching some shows and I think I've finally - finally - got a DCAU candidate of my very own. It's not Batman-themed but fuck it, Peacemaker came out and I guess I'm striking while The Suicide Squad iron is... slightly lukewarm.
We go to Justice League Unlimited: "Task Force X."
Who is Colonel Flagg Jr.?
Colonel Rick Flagg Jr. is the head of Task Force X and a colonel working alongside Cadmus. Introduced visiting Floyd Lawton (AKA Deadshot) on death row, Flagg introduces Lawton to the team and the operation. Flagg shows Lawton what all is going on, including their recruits; between a Magnificent Bastard in his own right, Clock King, and Plastique and Captain Boomerang, they're a fairly second-string team of heroes, but they have one goal: To steal a package from the JLU's headquarters, the Watchtower. Leading the operation, Flagg moves the team along steadily.
They start by non-lethally taking out a few Watchtower staff members, before infiltrating the Watchtower handily - something Flagg accomplishes by using his glasses to disable the Watchtower's scanning tech to let them pass by. Then, Flagg splits off with Captain Boomerang to find their target. Despite some struggles, including an issue with a door not on the schematic, Flagg and Boomerang manage to get past to find their target: The giant war machine known as the Annihilator, powered by rage. After sucker-punching Boomerang to wake it up, Flagg commands that they stay for the other two until there's no margin for error, despite Boomerang's protests. The two are about to go when Lawton and Plastique arrive, and they begin to make off. Once cornered, Flagg and his team put up a bold fight against a group of smaller-time heroes, before proceeding to the main bridge to make their getaway. Despite everything seemingly going to plan, Plastique ends up impeded by Captain Atom. In a cheap shot, Lawton shoots an explosive, wounding Plastique and abandoning her as they make their getaway - and when Martian Manhunter tries to use the console to track their destination, it simply explodes in his face, leading him to lament that "They've thought of everything."
Once back at base, Flagg notes the success of the mission, though he begrudgingly admits to losing Plastique. After being praised for his performance and loyalty by Waller, he confronts Lawton. Already nettled by Lawton's combination of smug personality and treacherous action, Flagg goes off when Lawton tries to walk out of the program, laying a beatdown on him. When Lawton asks what dirt Waller has on Flagg to force him into such a dirty operation, Flagg delivers a brutal Armor-Piercing Response:
- Not a thing. Some of us don't have to be blackmailed into serving our country.
With that, Flagg walks away, and is never seen again in the DCAU.
Is Flagg magnificent?
So, okay. Let's be blunt... he's on a team with Clock King, so he's gonna look like a lesser planner by that virtue alone. Still, Flagg's cleverness and leadership mean a lot. He intimidates Lawton into joining the team almost effortlessly, rounds them up well and keeps them safe and on-track. He has the kind of bravery and audacity to go into the Watchtower unarmed, times his moves right, up to and including taking down the scanner. He carries out a lot of the work in the field, improvising as the plan goes along. Clock King makes the wider plan, but the specifics are Flagg's work. He fights the League, uses his smarts to get to the objective, and has a genuine interest in national security, something he shows off in his brutal shutting down of Lawton at the end.
Essentially, he's herding a group of homicidal maniacs through the most secure building in the world, run by a veritable army of superheroes, and he not only pulls off the heist but only loses one member - a member he loses through another member's last-moment treachery. He's intensely loyal and, scummy as Task Force X are, he's vested in keeping them safe and refuses to abandon them until necessary. Despite this, he's willing to make the call if pragmatism absolutely demands it. Flagg carries himself with the leadership experience you'd expect of a colonel and manages to outdo pretty much the entire League - and detonating the console in order to hide their location is just icing on the cake, his operation leaving the League in complete paranoia.
Is Flagg a bastard?
Yep, Flagg's bad. He's willingly working for Cadmus and Amanda Waller to infiltrate a secure location run by, again, the Justice League, and steal a superweapon for Project Cadmus, who are working with known supervillains. He's essentially running a black-ops mission using death row inmates to get Cadmus something very dangerous, and all for no reason but "my government said so."
That said, his ideals are genuine, and the "Cadmus vs. League" conflict is always treated as Gray-and-Grey Morality. Flagg isn't wholly evil, he's just ruthless and fiercely loyal to his country. He also tries to protect his team and is clearly disgusted by Lawton's treachery. Flagg's pretty firmly in the Noble Demon category.
Conclusion?
I say he's a proper keep.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Plagg.
Anymore opinions on the Fox? Aside from 3 , he's been fairly ignored so far.
Showtime!
to Flagg
I guess I can give a weak yes to Fox as a small scale keeper. Seems like a similar thing the Spider from Spider and the Fly did.
Edited by Snowy66 on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:11:55 PM
Woagh
to Rick Flagg. Abstain on the Fox.
to Magma, not getting a lot of planning from him.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:30:32 PM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Flagg. Any more votes for Magma?
Yes to Flagg, no to Magma. Got mostly everything over... just gonna leave ASOIAF for now, the stuff that's not potholed and one literature character whose entry's a bit too long imo.
Goku Black
Flagg and Sakuma.
Magma (I think Itassis is probably a better candidate tbh. )
Edited by miraculous on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:41:39 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm probably going to do Itassis, but I'm doing the Terrors that I think might qualify in the order the order they get limelight episodes, so she'll be last and I might not get to her today.
to Flagg.
Who is Oculous
The second of the Ten Terrors to face the Mystic Rangers, a robotic cyclops creature who enjoys hunting.
What does he do?
He first appears threatening Necrolai with his sniper rifle when she intrudes on their domains, calling her an eyesore, but letting her speak. Oculous observes Magma fight the rangers then is selected to do so himself an episode later. He offers to spare the lives of the other Rangers if they step aside and let him have (or fight one-on-one, it’s not entirely clear) Nick. They refuse and the fight resumes, with Oculous ocassionalyl reminding them of the offer, and Nick being upset about the risk he’s exposing the others to, causing division in their camp. While sparing the others when the Ten Terrors plan to destroy the world is kind of a moot point, at least of of Oculous’s fellow Terrors (not one of the ones I’m writing up) explicitly doesn’t realize that people he’s sparing from danger will die if his side wins until the heroes flat out explain it to him. Also, the Rangers have the power to flee to different dimensions if they want to.
Like Magma, he offers them a game/challenge to defeat him before sunset, although he proceeds to fight more strategically. He shoots a weapon which dematerializes anyone it hits, but they can come back to life if he is defeated before sundown. Oculous ducks back and forth out ofd a dimensional gateway so he can shoot at the Rangers from different buildings with shortt intervals, leaving them disoriented. He hunts the Rangers through the Forrest destroying the trees they were hiding behind to make them run further and get tired. Throughout the episode, he picks off Nick’s fellow Rangers, one by one. A desperate Nick is will gin to surrender hismelf if Oculous brings the others back, and the Hunter agrees, only for one of the heroes allies to suddenly appear to yank Nick away, talk about os important his survival is and urge him to fight.
The next time they meet, Oculous rings a bunch of Mooks with him to slant the playing field in his favor but the Rangers’ dragon torches them, causing a one on one fight that Nick wins, killing Oculous and bringing back his friends.
Magnificent
He's a Cold Sniper who takes out all but one of the Rangers one by one and comes close to breaking Nick’s spirit and making him surrender himself.
He’s also not into needless killing, such as warning Necrolai to leave instead of just shooting her and being willing to spare the lives of the other Rangers. Unlike most villains who make bargains with heroes in the show, there’s no indication that he’s lying when he says that he’ll spare the others if Nick gives up.
'Possible Mitigating Factors
His last words are a Big "NO!", but it's hard to tell if it's anger or fear.
Edited by Melinda on Mar 18th 2022 at 1:02:09 AM
Compared to some of the other Aesop candidates, this Fox doesn't stand out as much to me, so a slight on him.
to Mikio, Sakuma and Flagg.
Tentative to Magma.
Also, just throwing this out here, I've decided after some thinking, I'm only going to vote on an entry if it actually describes the candidate's Competition adequately or if I'm familiar with the source material's competition, since I really think an MB needs Competition in the setting; otherwise there's no standards by which to judge a character's MB validity.
Edited by Derv0sB2 on Mar 18th 2022 at 1:58:17 AM
Oculous seems good and Derv... the whole point of an EP is to elaborate on a character the reader might not be familiar with. If you feel someone could make things clearer feel free to say so but that blanket comment looks extremely rude to all the posts you don't vote on.
Goku Black
Sure I can Oculous.
Wonder if his sentai Magiranger counterpart Cyclops could keep?
Edited by miraculous on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:04:18 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Woagh
Sure to Oculous.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Alright, I'll keep that in mind in future.
Edited by Derv0sB2 on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:12:40 AM
to Salladhor Saan, Arthur Dayne, Ali Morrisane, Jimmy Conlan, Mikio, Bran the Builder, Billy Butcher, Alyn, Fox, Colonel Flagg and Oculous.
Sakuma only allowed Mac to quit the trial because he already got the results he needed for BES. Also Sakuma was the one who exploited Mac’s family for his own end by offering to give Mac’s son life-saving surgery if Mac goes through with BES and does lie Mac saying it is necessary for Mac to walk and fight and while BES did do that it is also said that Mac could have walked through physical rehabilitation (though Mac might have needed BES to fight again and it does give Mac an advantage in the ring
Edited by G-Editor on Mar 18th 2022 at 1:31:59 PM