During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Maybe we should alphabetize The Venture Brothers then?
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Blue Blood Gear: Kujou is a mysterious engineer who takes the position left for Prince Kodo, creating powerful machines to be used in the genocidal war against the Red Blood People and rising in power and prestige despite his peasant origins. In truth, Kujou is actually a Purple Blood who suffered violent discrimination from both sides until he was adopted for the exiled engineer Instein, Kodo's biological father. Enjoying life as Instein's pupil, Kujou's innocence is shattered when Instein is murdered while trying to protect him from a mob. Concluding that humanity is doomed to constant war and hatred, Kujou decides that the only way to stop hatred is the extinction of humanity. Disguising himself for years, Kujou drops his cover when both sides are on negociations, and infects the King of the Blue Blood with a Mystical Plague (after mocking the King's bigotry) and starts spreading it across the world. When Kujou is defeated for Kodo, Kujou reveals that he put his main station on space, forcing Kodo's animal partner to sacrifice himself to save the world. In the epilogue, Kujou shows some regret for his atrocities in his jail cell, realizing that Kodo was Instein's real heir.
I send it to the Get Help With English thread and corrected what they told me. Is this fine?
Edited by KazuyaProta on May 6th 2021 at 6:58:35 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Goku Black
Uh entries are sorted by chronological order though in the site or first come first serve.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Moron
Well some pages use order of appearance - like the Buffyverse page uses appearance - and honestly, as a non fan of Attack on Titan, that order meaning nothing to me really doesn’t change anything. Like I recognize Eren Yaeger’s name cause I know he’s the protagonist, but I don’t particularly care about the order of the rest - alphabetical or not really changes nothing for me. I really could go either way.
Goku Black
here the thread which decided to go with chronological order as the main sorting part ''site wide''.
This is why episodes titles are listed from beginning to end.
Edit: My bad. Apparently the site let's you do anything. Lol. Though chronological is referred and honestly I prefer it too. I don't see a huge difference in what people will see .
Edited by miraculous on May 6th 2021 at 5:01:15 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Chronological order is rather meaningless without context, as it works when characters are listed by seasons or episodes explicitly in the entries. Otherwise, it may as well be a random assortment of names. I personally prefer alphabatizing as I think it looks nicer for the site as a whole, but I can respect people wanting to do the way they are used to.
To practise what I preach, I do believe the Venture Bros page should be alphabetized. We can discuss if it should be by first name or title.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The Moron
Honestly, I just don't really see the point. Other tropes are generally ordered chronologically, the fact that this entry talks about characters specifically doesn't mean it needs to be any different. If anything, doing it alphabetically just makes the trope more of an outlier among the tropes than it already is. To non-fans it won't mean anything either way, to fans it shows the chronology/importance of the characters in question, so I personally think we should just keep it the way it is.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 6th 2021 at 8:07:29 AM
Goku Black
I Mean it's weird to fight what the site does as a Norm. If it's really causing confusion you could you just put a note that entries are ordered chronologically on the top of the page/first appearance unless /air date/ whatever
Edited by miraculous on May 6th 2021 at 5:10:06 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Light, Walker, Kenny, Amorpho, and SUPER STEALY ROBOT LUPIN.
- Mickey Mouse Newspaper Strips: The Phantom Blot is a cunning criminal who aims to reclaim a valuable formula for a chemical compound, one that he wrote down and hid inside of a specific model of camera. Stealing the cameras from the city's residents and smashing them open in his efforts to find it, the Blot introduces himself by easily kidnapping Mickey Mouse and planting him in a complex death trap when he is assigned to bring the Blot to justice. Matching Mickey in their game of wits, the Blot constantly has him on the ropes, nearly managing to escape with the formula were it not for Mickey's persistence and good fortune. In the end, the Blot admits that the reason why he couldn't bring himself to simply off Mickey when he had the chance was because of his too-tender heart. The Phantom Blot's highly memorable original outing would cause him to become one of Mickey's greatest and most beloved adversaries, eventually making his return years later in all sorts of other media.
Not really down to have alphabetized names take precedence over all. If one character is series-wide, another across a whole season and one only in one episode, I think the logical order is pretty straightforward. Likewise this site is also about introducing people to media and informing them on it, so if someone's the protagonist (Eren Yaeger) it seems silly to me to just put him below Eren Kruger since the latter's last name starts with an earlier letter in the alphabet. If it's such a big deal to include context I wouldn't mind if something like "the series protagonist" is inserted after his name but I can't get behind a mass reorder of names like this. The site might be debatably be reaching a more "professional" appearance but there's still very much a casual emphasis in how entries are written (i.e.: how frequently do you see something like "cut down" vs. "killed with a sword" on MB writeups?)
Also reading the whole debate through I'm going to say yes to this version of Light.
Edit: Oh, yes to robo Lupin as well.
... wait? Kenny is longer than the entry for Eren was going to be? He does more than the guy who planned to manipulate timestreams, orchestrated the events of the manga, etc. Fuck it, I'll deal with this tomorrow, not in the mood to be used as someone to have piles of work just dumped on right now.
Bluntly... if a character is bigger than another, use common sense, see to it main characters aren't dwarfed by minor characters, it looks out of whack unless said minor character (somehow) did a shit load more than them: I don't know why the hell Lupin is smaller than Fujiko who's smaller than the characters from one season and I'm sick of "Oh I'll fix it" being a response when no one moves on doing it. For the millionth time, I'm undertaking a lot of work to curate and edit. I don't know why I have to keep restating it but I'm getting pretty close to jumping on people I have to message on these topics and insisting they rectify these issues they create immediately cuz this has gone on for fucking years now. It's one of the many reasons I really don't want to go any further on this suggestion about reordering things.
Edited by 43110 on May 6th 2021 at 10:00:41 AM
New EP.
What's the work? The X-Files is a series about two partners, Mulder and Scully, who investigate supernatural happenings and conspiracies across the United States. Today, we will be looking at the episode "Bad Blood," in which Mulder and Scully hunt down a vampiric serial killer of tourists located in a small town near Dallas, recalled "Rashomon"-Style between the two out of fear of being sued for accidentally staking the killer. The candidate is not the Serial Killer, Ronnie, but is in fact the true leader of the vampires... simple lawman Sheriff Hartwell.
Who is Sheriff Hartwell? What does he do? In Scully's account, Hartwell is a smart, well-spoken, handsome, and charismatic. He guides her around before splitting off alongside Agent Mulder, joining him and later returning. In Mulder's account, Hartwell is a buck-toothed southern idiot who talks about silly and stupid things regularly, hangs around a graveyard, helps Mulder shoot at an RV whose driver is dead, and is generally a very silly and foolish fellow. In either one, he's more or less no help to the duo.
The reality is... different. (Though when we see it in real life, Hartwell is the attractive, well-spoken man Scully thinks he is.) When Ronnie comes back to life when the stake is removed, the two return to the town, where they once again meet Sheriff Hartwell. Hartwell instantly catches on to Mulder's deduction and sends him to the RV lot, where Mulder is ambushed by vampires and knocked unconscious while trying to capture Ronnie again. In polite conversation with Scully, he drugs her drink and explains that he's not happy with how Ronnie's acted, but as a member of the community, he's obligated to protect Ronnie, with it slowly becoming clear he too is a vampire. Both of them eventually wake up the next day, no worse for wear and unbitten, only to find that the entire town of vampires has disappeared. So, piecing together the episode's events, Hartwell:
- Instantly charms Scully with his good looks and charisma.
- Manages to feign being a fool to Mulder and wastes his time with idle conversation and comical antics.
- Lets them leave the town.
- Responds to their return by immediately allying with them, sending Mulder directly into his trap and drugging Scully's drink, taking both out non-lethally.
- Completely escapes, protecting the Serial Killer and the town from any intruders and disappearing entirely, never to be caught.
Is Hartwell magnificent? Charismatic? Intelligent? Thinks on his feet? For charisma, the guy is (Other than in Mulder's clearly biased interpretation) a very smooth Luke Wilson who instantly charms his way into Scully's heart, is eloquent and thoughtful, and even when ultimately caught in a bind chooses not to kill Mulder or Scully, just disappearing with his fellow vampires, Affably Evil to the very core. It's implied he and his fellow vamps don't even eat people. Even in Mulder's view, he's not only hilarious, there's still a valid argument that if he was as much of an idiot as Mulder makes him out to be, he was playing it up to fool Mulder.
For intelligence and thinking on his feet, Hartwell again manipulates the duo with pretty clear efficiency, doubly impressive since Mulder is established as a master of Awesomeness by Analysis and criminal profiling. He sends Mulder on a wild goose chase initially by just going along with everything he says, manages to essentially impede any and all progress if not for Scully's sudden break in the case. (That the victims all ate drugged pizza) When the two return after Ronnie returns to life, he's already fully prepared with a trap for Mulder and a drugged drink for Scully, politely handing out The Reveal and disappearing without a hitch. He even manages to brush off a clear sign of being a vampire, immediately going to pick up a sunflower seed when Mulder throws one, and get back into character without missing a beat. While it's unclear how much time passes throughout the episode and exactly how much of it is his plan, he nonetheless does a hell of a job wasting Mulder and Scully's time, and perfectly plays them when the time comes, working effectively and charmingly to the very last scene he appears in.
Also, the guy's entire character is just funny. He plays this unassuming role and turns out not only to be one of the vampires but is unfailingly polite about it, just apologizing for Ronnie being a murderous Serial Killer like he's just a rowdy teen who's been a bit of a pain and not, y'know... a serial-killing vampire.
Is he a bastard? Too much? Hartwell's not a murderer himself, but he's trying to protect a vampiric Serial Killer for no reason but the fact he's a community member who he loves and cares about, with the implication that he will likely keep killing wherever they go.
Too bad? HA HA HA—No. Dude's Affably Evil to the finish, chooses not to kill Mulder and Scully when he had every opportunity, is a polite folk vampire who just wants Ronnie to Stop Being Stereotypical, with bad PR being his real concern about people being murdered, and is just generally a charming gentleman who happens to be protecting a murderer. Definitely one of the few examples on a show full of serial killers, conspirators, and rapists where the audience could be forgiven for Rooting for the Empire.
Conclusion? Easy yes.
Edit: Ah, sorry, 43. I got occupied with other stuff when you asked about this, but yes; I can absolutely expand Fujiko and Lupin's entries, got plenty of stuff I could add. May well do that tomorrow.
Edited by Riley1sCool on May 6th 2021 at 7:16:58 AM
I checked the word count, Kenny has only one more word than Eren does. It's not a very long writeup... Unless you want Eren's entry to be longer.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hartwell.
Edited by jjjj2 on May 6th 2021 at 10:26:06 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Hartwell.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Draftsman of Doom
Yeah to Hartwell.
Rawr.
Gotta love Jaws!
Yes to Hartwell... Eren is the length he is in the firstplace because I bolstered the original entry (which I really don't like having to do). I think I know what I'm talking about when I make a point about substantive length differences.
Thank you Riley for actually offering a hand: it is sincerely appreciated! Also no need to apologize, you weren't the one I raised it to.
Edited by 43110 on May 6th 2021 at 10:47:23 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay where I am it's still two hours until it's time to discuss the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. But seeing as Lighty just brought it up on the CM thread. You guys mind me doing it a bit early.
Edited by Bullman on May 6th 2021 at 9:50:12 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ok sorry about that 43. ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't care, but others might.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
the warden
And i don't mind with the FAWS Discussion.
Looking forward to seeing the discussion there, from what I heard it made Zemos qualifications even stronger.
The First man
Yes to Hartwell, and yeah, just let it rip on the Marvel stuff.
Oh, cool! Yep, as the guy handling Zemo I can confirm the guy keeps stronger than ever. He happily allies with Sam and Bucky, gives them a bunch of cool shit and delivers a Really Royalty Reveal, gets a new motive in despising the ideology behind super soldiers, he's Affably Evil and really funny now apparently, and he politely accepts his loss at Bucky's hands before proceeding to wipe out the last of the super soldiers from in prison via his butler.
I don't know when Bull is gonna drop their candidate, probably soon, but they're a fun surprise and I'm not gonna spoil them now.
I'll expand his entry tomorrow when I'm doing Fujiko and Lupin if nobody has any objections.
Edited by Riley1sCool on May 6th 2021 at 8:02:52 AM
Ah yes, I remember that episode Sheriff Dracula
Lol, I really didnt expect Zemo to become more heroic. This run only amps up his sympathy factor even more.
Edited by Snowy66 on May 6th 2021 at 8:04:31 AM
An hour away where I am. I don’t mind though. Haven’t gotten to see the show yet however, so I’m not gonna weigh in right now if that’s alright.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 6th 2021 at 8:02:06 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay it's time. My first MCU EP. It's not one I would ever do, but life is full of surprises.
What is the work?
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a mini-series set in the MCU. It follows the adventures of Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes, as the two try to take down the Flagsmashers, led by Karli Morgenthau. Through the series, the two are forced to work with Zemo, meet Sharon Carter again, and face off against the new Captain America, John Walker. Meanwhile, Karli is also constantly chased by the Power Broker, the crime lord in charge of Madripoor, and responsible for them becoming super soldiers. Zemo easily still counts. Karli and John do not count, though I really wish the former did. The Power Broker is at least worth an EP in my opinion.
Warning Spoilers below this point.
Who is the Power Broker?
So the identity of the Power Broker is eventually revealed to be Sharon Carter. Sharon, who was pretty much abandoned by both her friends and government following the events of Civil War, went on the run and took over Madripoor, under the alias the Power Broker. Earning a reputation so fierce even Zemo doesn't want to cross her, Sharon took in the young refugee Karli following everyone returning from the blip. Recruiting former HYDRA/CIA scientist Wilfred Nagel and managing to recreate the Super Soldier serum, Sharon plans is eventually betrayed by Karli who steals the serum and forms the Flagsmashers. Sometime before the first episode, Sharon broke out Batroc from prison.
In episode two, Sharon is able to track Karli down with them barely escaping her men. When the heroes, plus Zemo, arrive in Madripoor, Sharon saves them from a group of bounty hunters who are trying to kill them, after having Shelby killed after she revealed Nagel to them. Taking them to her place, and gets Sam to agree to get her pardoned, but not before having fun messing with them. Leading them to Nagel, Sharon easily takes out the group of bounty hunters who attack them, but Zemo does kill Nagel. Hoping to find the last of the serum, Sharon later helps Sam by keep track of everyone in the building during a battle with the Flagsmashers using her satellite.
Again breaking out Batroc, Sharon has him infuriate the Flagsmashers as a mole. She eventually joins Bucky and Sam, now Captain America, in stopping the Flagsmashers attacking the GRC. At one point, Sharon even kills a Flagsamsher by put a bomb on him, which contained poison gas. Cornering Karli, Sharon tries to get Karli to join her again, though does make it clear she will kill Karli if she doesn't and kills Batroc when he tries to betray her. Though she gets shot, Sharon manages to use Karli’s fight with Sam to her advantage, making it look like she just killed Karli to save Sam. While Sam does get the pardon, Sharon makes it clear she is not going to stop being the Power Broker and intends to use her newfound position in the government to get access to technology to sell on the black-market.
Is she charming? Smart? Think on her feet?
Now Sharon is far from the most charming villain in the MCU, or even this show, as that goes to Zemo. That is not to say she isn't though. Emily Vancamp is having a ball playing the evil mastermind and messing with the heroes' heads. She is able to play everyone from Sam to Bucky to Karli. She doesn't plan for everything, but when something goes wrong, she can spin it to her advantage. Karli betrays her, she is easily able to track her. Shelby reveals too much of her plans, she has her killed and uses the ensuing fight to gain Sam and Bucky's trust. Batroc betrays and shoots her, she manages to still kill Karli and get her pardon. The only time someone actually gets one over her is Zemo, who manages to destroy both her ways of making Super Soldiers. However, even then she still manages to end the show relatively well. Getting a position in the government which allows her to get weapons and tech to sell on the black market.
Bitch? Too much?
It's mentioned that she is judge, jury, and executioner in Madripoor. She sells stolen goods on the black market in her spare time. She tries to make an army of Super Soldiers to tear down the government which abandoned. Kills Karli and kills several other people who are associated. Takes advantage of Sam's kindness and ends the show planning to still betray the government by stealing tech.
However, she is far from the worse the MCU has to offer, and never does anything that goes too far. She has a point about how everyone, including the Avengers, abandoning her. Which the show actually acknowledges. She kills Karli, but from the conversation beforehand she didn't want to, and seemed to legit seemed to care about her.
Other factors?
Okay so yeah, a cliffhanger. I debated with myself if I should do this now, but ultimately this is the MCU. We have no idea when she will come back. It could be years, and it just might not happen. So I decided to do it now.
Conclusion?
I lean yeah, but I can understand if you guys vote no.
Edited by Bullman on May 6th 2021 at 10:08:04 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I've honestly been thinking we should move toward a general alphabetical order for pages. Whenever I see the tropers themselves putting lists in some arbitrary order only they would understand, it makes me realize we're creating these pages more for ourselves than anyone. Frankly, I think we should be creating every new page with the intended audience being completely random people that are browsing the site for fun. Such people will have no idea what the intent behind your ordering of names is and will think it's some random mish mash of characters. If it's alphabetized, it can at least have a sense of general order and look clean and professional to any random internet user that comes across the page.
I definitely feel as if Tv Tropes in general is moving toward a more professional feel.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.