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It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
The Unknown Unknown
Agree with the above.
It's honestly a problem with the RWBY fanbase in general. They love troping everything under the sun, especially subjective stuff like NF, Awesome, etc.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Since we have a good consensus, I got rid of Cinder and Qrow's entries. I had already removed the one about the spider tattoos and Ozpin trying to attack Ruby, since they were nothing but blatant speculation. I kept the one about Ozpin losing it since it does at least try to explain what's scary about it (Oz acting OOC).
I don't know that I agree. This is the current wording of the entry:
- It's brief, but Ozpin losing it after Ruby asks the Knowledge Relic about what he's hiding from his allies counts as a serious O.O.C. Is Serious Business moment. He runs towards Ruby with the intent of stopping the Relic revealing his biggest secrets ... and fails. The episode ends as we learn that Salem was a human being.
As written, the Ozpin attack example looks like a scene summary to me. It is no doubt a very shocking scene for fans who have become so used to Ozpin being so calm and laid-back about everything (indeed, that's been the biggest in-universe criticism of him by his followers — that he's too passive). And the way Ruby reacts is striking — no defensive stance in a girl that lives for fighting; she just cringes in full expectation of being hit by Ozpin.
As written, the entry isn't explaining why the OOC behaviour is Nightmare Fuel, especially given the fact that the entry emphasises that his attack actually fails, which takes all the sting out of the entry.
I'd also remove the Salem reference; that's just tacked on to the end and is irrelevant to the rest of the entry as written.
I'm not saying it should be removed from the page. I'm just saying it needs a rewrite.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 11th 2018 at 4:51:09 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
You make a good point, since he didn't actually manage to hurt Ruby it's only scary for a few moments, and the bit about Salem is basically a Non Sequitur. In fact, I've changed my mind on that entry, I think it should be cut outright.
On an unrelated note, I've found this on NightmareFuel.Pokemon Go:
- As of an update on late March 2017, if a Pokémon flees from sight, a Game Over message pops out, telling you that it fled away. Considerably jarring and scary for some, especially at night.
Oh no! The wild [insert Pokémon name here] fled.
- If you have a bad connection, an error can occur in which the Pokémon appears to run from you—it even flashes the same Game Over message saying it ran away—yet the game credits you with the catch anyway. Imagine this happening when you encounter something very rare and desirable.
Previously, there was only the first bullet point, and I could not for the life of me understand why someone would find such a harmless message scary. In fact, I think it got cut in a cleanup on this thread. The poorly-indented second point which was added later seems to indicate that the "scariness" actually comes from the fear of missing out on a Pokemon you were trying to catch, which is not at all what Nightmare Fuel is about. Since you do get the catch anyway, whatever fear you might experience from this will go away once your connection stabilizes and you see that you did capture the Pokemon.
Then there's this similar example:
- When catching Mew after completing every research task required to reach it, it doesn't play out like any other wild encounter. When Mew appears, it forces your game into AR mode and turns invisible. You can only use Poké Balls, and holding your Poké Ball to ready it for a toss does not show rings around Mew.
- This continues until it's finally caught. but if you're driving or in an area with poor connection, it can escape the encounter. Thankfully, this is an error and the game ultimately registers it as caught, but imagine playing the game for months on end and witnessing one of the rarest Olympus Mons Smoke Out right on your face and the immediate dread that you will never be able to try and catch this elusive creature again.
Oh no! The wild Mew fled.
Just like the above, this is describing the very brief feeling of dread you might experience upon seeing the message.
Finally, there's this one:
- Several people have been mugged live on camera while streaming video of themselves playing the game.
This is basically a real-life example when NF is No Real Life Examples, Please!.
Yeah, none of those are examples. The 'fear' of losing a game has nothing to do with Nightmare Fuel and real life shouldn't be troped.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's Nightmare Fuel page got an entire, indentation-filled folder for a single cutscene. It's Ridley's dedicated folder all over again.
—signature not found—
I don't know the work, but reading that World of Light folder, my conclusions are as follows (I'm obviously ignoring the issue of illegal indentation):
To summarise: three entries might possibly be salvageable with a rewrite. Everything else should be removed. Regarding the three, if they aren't salvageable, remove them as well and get rid of the entire folder.
- Scene summary. Remove.
- Analysis of how new villain stacks up against old villain by summarising actions. Only the very last sentence attempts to reach the trope, but it's actually zero-context: "And to see beloved characters flee as they're helplessly blasted away, it's like witnessing the Infinity War of Super Smash Bros." How did the poster feel about Infinity War? We don't know because the author doesn't tell us. Therefore comparing 'beloved characters flee' to 'it's like witnessing...' means absolutely nothing. Remove.
- Fridge Horror. Remove.
- Bolts of light can kill NPCs as well as PCs. So? Also suffers from gushing, conversation in the main page, This Troper language (we). Remove.
- List of characters the villain has killed. Frankly reads as gushing about how overpowered the villain is. Remove.
- Apparently the villain doesn't look typical for the game, having more in common with a different game. Its angelic appearance is why it's nightmarish but there's no explanation why. Okay. We might have something we can work with here, but not as written. Rewrite to fit the trope or remove.
- Well, this one is attempting to fit the trope. I personally don't find the image it's referring to scary, but it is at least trying to fit the trope. Decide if there's something salvageable here, rewrite if so. Otherwise, remove.
- Identity reveal of spirit inside clone. A bit of gushing about the creature's threat level. No attempt to tie into the trope, and it's zero context because it requires people to know a different work to understand the point of the entry. Remove.
- Conversation. More gushing about the identities of characters the villain has killed. Final sentence talks about souls being forced to power the clones that killed them — which might be the trope, but there's no attempt to link it to Nightmare Fuel. Rewrite or remove.
- How the characters are killed is exactly what it says — every single sub-bullet is just a summary of how the referenced character dies. And one of them is actually singled out as being a funny way to die until Fridge Horror kicks in. Remove all of them.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 12th 2018 at 8:50:21 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Speaking of Pokemon, NightmareFuel.Pokemon Detective Pikachu has been made based on the trailer that just came out yesterday.
- The Pokémon seen in the first trailer retain their cartoonish proportions while going for a more realistic texture, in order to make them look more like real-life creatures and less like cartoon characters. This strategy achieves...mixed results; some Pokémon look fine (with many praising how adorable Detective Pikachu's fluffier design is), while others look much less so. Some examples of the latter group:
- Mr. Mime falls so deep into the Uncanny Valley that it's downright horrifying. The Pokémon already unnerves a lot of people. It's not helpful that those blue things on either side of its head are rendered to resemble "fleshy protrusions" rather than Einstein Hair as most interpretations. (Granted, this being Mr. Mime, the whole effect might be intentional, but even so, it's disturbing.)
Screenshot. I can understand someone being weirded out by his appearance, but the scene as presented in the trailer was pretty funny, which weakens the fear one might feel.
- The Greninja prop suffers similarly from being too realistic; a close up on its head reveals the texture of its tongue scarf in horrifying detail.
Screenshot. The scene in question is so quick and blurry that it's not actually possible to make out the "horrifying detail". And even then, it's just a tongue. Is anyone actually going to lose sleep over that?
- (Pictured) The hyper-realistic Charizard opening its jaws to bite (eat?) Pikachu at the end of the trailer is terrifying.
Charizard is definitely the most legitimately frightening thing in the trailer, but it's still just a trailer. I could stand keeping it, but all we have to go on is a few quick out-of-context clips, which makes me lean towards getting rid of it.- Psyduck's vacant, too-far-apart eyes can be pretty unsettling.
Screenshot. It looks a bit weird, but not the kind of horror that haunts your nightmares. The wording of "pretty unsettling" says it all, it's only "pretty" and not "very" unsettling.
- The missing posters of Squirtle and Pancham. In a blink-and-you'll miss it moment, we see both Pokémon at an underground arena, hinting that they've been kidnapped and forced to fight.
Pure speculation and Fridge Horror.
- At one point, the very landscape is folded like origami.
That's a bland scene summary if I've ever seen one. We don't know anything about what's causing the landscape to get folded or what the repercussions of that are, making this speculation too.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
For the record, the entry about Greninja is referring to the prop model made for the film
◊, which shows a lot more detail than the trailer. Still, probably safe to cut most of the entries, except maybe the one about Charizard. At least until there's more information about the film.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Thanks for the correction. It does like some people could find the detailed tongue gross, but that would make it Nausea Fuel, not Nightmare Fuel.
NightmareFuel.Venom 2018 has some crappy examples but this one takes the cake.
- Despite all if the above, a large amount of this movie's Nightmare Fuel comes from how mundane they are, i.e. it can happen or has happened in real life.
- The spaceship crash in the opening? Just like several failed space program projects.
- The corrupt company and executives are far too realistic for comfort. See these pages if you can't believe it.
- Eddie losing his life, job and girlfriend? Regular issue in the world for ordinary guys who try to expose the big fish.
- The symbiote and the hosts dying due to rejection is quite similar to deaths caused by rejection during organ transplants.
- Mrs. Chen's experience with protection rackets is quite common in the world.
Goku Black
Okay The person who added this must be trolling. As that is a terrible example even by the low bar set by examples that pass through here.
I'd say that's all Fridge Horror, but 'find real life equivalents' seems a bit PSOC for even Fridge to apply.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 14th 2018 at 12:09:44 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
From YMMV.Dumbo 2019
- Nightmare Fuel: A brief shot in the first teaser seems to confirm that the infamous "Pink Elephants on Parade" sequence is going to be in the movie, and considering some of the other things Tim Burton's known for, chances are it'll either be just as creepy or even creepier than the original version.
That's Speculative Troping right?
Redmess
I agree, that's just speculation. Credible speculation, maybe, but still.
Optimism is a duty.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Yup, that's blatantly speculating based on a one-second clip from a totally harmless trailer. I can guarantee you that no one is having bad dreams over that part of the teaser.
Even if the scene in the final movie DOES end up being Nightmare Fuel material, write it based on the full context from the movie instead of the trailer.
The Tear Jerker entry is also speculation due to the "appears to be" wording.
Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 15th 2018 at 11:14:15 AM
I'd like to mention Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V's Nightmare Fuel page, which has some misuse here and there and is wearing a coat made of spoiler tags. The image borders on Just a Face and a Caption but that's for another thread. Among the worst offenders are these:
- Episode 18: The moments when a few keen-eyed people noticed that the city that Yuto flashed back to bore an uncanny resemblance to Heartland.
- In Episode 3-4, the possibility of Yuzu and the kids falling to their death is a VERY likely possibility.
- Episode 33: In-Universe, the audience is horrified when they see Raid Raptors — Rise Falcon obliterating the field.
Is it ok to request those changes?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Go ahead and do it, they're blatant misuse.
Another episode of RWBY, you know what that means...
The Lost Fable
- The entrance to the domain of the God of Darkness has what is clearly a human skeleton with the blade that killed him still inside his body. What happened there?
Is this like one of these Spooky Scary Skeletons memes, except it's not ironic?
- The God of Darkness bends and contorts himself in terrible ways when Salem pleads to him for Ozma's return, clearly horrifying her.
This reads like it's about Salem's own fear rather than the audience's.
- Salem originally became cursed with immortality for meddling with both the Gods. She is shown to try killing herself to no avail, much to Ruby's shock. She then leads an army of humans to attack the gods... only for the Dark God to strip humanity of its magic, and fire back. This results in all of humanity dying in one horrible instant, the depiction of which is sudden and brutal (a flash of purple light engulfs the entire world and annihilates all human life in its way, accompanied by the soundtrack's frightful wails and ashes in the air after the deed is done). Just to drive the genocide's impact home, the God of Darkness cuts Salem's vow of revenge short with the harsh truth:
Dark God: You do not understand. There is no one left. You are all that remains of humanity.The thought of Salem being doomed to live forever and being unable to die to rejoin her lover in the afterlife, then later getting all of humanity wiped out, leaving her alone for eternity, does seem like valid Nightmare Fuel.
- After the departure of the Gods, Salem rationalized that since the pool of the Light God cursed her with immortality, the pool of the Dark God would release her curse. Instead, she dives into a pool of pure malevolence that relentlessly assaults her until she emerges in her present day form; a being of infinite life with a desire for pure destruction.
I think this could also be kept, although it does seem like a bit of a bland summary right now.
- Ozma's encountered in the afterlife by the God of Light. The latter tells the former about the four relics, which will be able to summon him and the Dark God to judge humanity. If they've learned to abandon their differences, then the Gods will remain to guide humanity forward. If not, then all life on Remnant will get destroyed.
A simple scene summary. Nothing here really sounds like Nightmare Fuel.
- When Ozma and Salem reunite in the former's second life (and after Salem became part Grimm), they have a family, and rule over a kingdom that's seated within the current Grimmlands. After Salem refuses to pay heed to the Light God's warning to Ozma, he tries smuggling himself and their four daughters out of the castle ... only for Salem to find him. The monstrous battle that ensues ends with Ozma dead at Salem's hands, the fate of their daughters unknown, and the castle getting wrecked in the process.
- The fight shows that Ozma, who was considered an invincible hero in his prime, can only score a momentary victory against Salem by incinerating her to dust before she recreates her body and kills him. Ozpin mentioned last season that he wasted most of his powers creating the Maidens and giving the transformation ability to the Branwens AND that each incarnation carries less power than the last. In other words, even without her invulnerability, Salem carries so much magical firepower that she puts the Maidens’ powers to shame, meaning that Ozpin and Oscar are no longer capable of matching her power as Ozma and his successor could.
Not sure about the, I could go either way. The poorly-indented second point seems to be speculation or Fridge Horror.
- The fight shows that Ozma, who was considered an invincible hero in his prime, can only score a momentary victory against Salem by incinerating her to dust before she recreates her body and kills him. Ozpin mentioned last season that he wasted most of his powers creating the Maidens and giving the transformation ability to the Branwens AND that each incarnation carries less power than the last. In other words, even without her invulnerability, Salem carries so much magical firepower that she puts the Maidens’ powers to shame, meaning that Ozpin and Oscar are no longer capable of matching her power as Ozma and his successor could.
- Salem killing a Nevermore by causing its body to distort and twist until it's nothing but a broken mass of black feathers, all while sickening cracking noises are heard.
That was quite a brutal kill, but it's just a Grimm so no one can really feel sorry for it.
- The last words of Jinn's tale reveal an Awful Truth that throws everyone for a loop.
Ozpin: How do I destroy Salem?
Jinn: You can't.Not sure about this one either. I'm pretty sure that they'll eventually find some way to defeat Salem anyway, so I'm not too scared by this.
Logic Girl
NightmareFuel.Sesame Street has a lot of "personal phobia" ones, and I think a few are a bit too non-scary.
For every low there is a high.
Zuxtron beat me to it.
- Scene summary. Remove.
- Description of Salem's reaction. Remove.
- It's written like a scene summary. It should be a valid example. It's certainly listed under And I Must Scream. However, it could use tweaking to explain why it's horrible for the audience instead of Salem.
- Scene summary. Remove. I don't object to it coming back as a potential example if it can be written to fit the trope.
- Scene summary. Remove.
- Scene summary. Remove.
- We already knew that Ozpin and Oscar didn't have the power to stop her. That was confirmed for certain in Volume 5. And even before it was confirmed, it was obvious that Ozpin had never had the ability to stop her since... you know, they'd been fighting for several thousand years without one achieving victory over the other. This is a shoehorn masquerading as Fridge Horror. Remove.
- That was certainly a unique way of killing the Nevermore, but it's also a mook kill and the camera shot spent part of it focussed on the shadow of the creature rather than the creature itself. Personally, I'd remove it. But if someone can write it in a way that fits the trope, I can live with it.
- This is not news. We've had characters telling us for two years that Salem is unstoppable. We know two characters who have turned on Ozpin because of it. We spend the entire episode being shown how unkillable Salem is. Jinn's final words of the scene are a confirmation summary. It isn't new information. It's just confirmation. Remove.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 18th 2018 at 1:01:47 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
don't ask me about my niche
I'm joining this because I'm grew tired of people misusing NF. By the way, if you found something that isn't remotely scary on NF page, I'll gladly remove it.
Logic Girl
Cool! Can you do the Sesame Street page I linked to?
For every low there is a high.
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
NightmareFuel.Luigis Mansion seems to have a lot of exaggerations and examples lacking context, though I've tried my best to keep unconfirmed rumors about What Could Have Been off the page.
Keet cleanup
I was just about to bring those over here.
Certainly, if anyone really is terrified by any of the scenes, they can add them back rewritten in a way that meets trope requirements. Right now, however, they're just scene summaries.
This is one of the biggest problems with the RWBY Nightmare Fuel page. Everything that gets added is either a scene summary or a character reaction. It's almost never written with the actual trope in mind.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:18:35 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.