Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.
In a Nutshell
We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.Namespace Configuration System
- Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
- There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
- The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
- Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
- Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
- Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
- Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
- Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
- Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
- When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
- When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.
What We Need
What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.For reference:
- The formal namespace list is here: Namespace.
- The complete list of namespaces may be viewed with this tool: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/articlecount.php
- The full list of articles in any particular namespace may be seen here, except that it won't work for Main: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=YMMV.
How This Will Work
If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.
After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.
Rules and Procedures
- The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
- Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
- If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
- If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.
We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.
- Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist. - Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with. - Q: So what should we focus on?
A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content. - Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.
Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
I believe Thomas and the Magic Railroad should be moved to film. Even Osmosis Jones and Cool World are under Film/.
Keet cleanup
Here’s what I propose:
- Move Magic Railroad to Film/
- Move Thomas & Friends, Tugs, and Theodore Tugboat (and any others I may have missed) to Series
- Keep WesternAnimation/ThomasAndFriends as a redirect because of its switch to CGI in 2009
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Oct 14th 2021 at 6:50:49 AM
About Series.Black Mirror, an anthology series.
In 2017 (mentioned here) the main page was split into multiple individual Recap/ pages.
In 2018 individual pages for the seasons were made in Black Mirror/ namespace, eg. BlackMirror.Series One.
That doesn't need to be in a work namespace when it can just as easily be Series.Black Mirror Series One or something, which already exists as a redirect (similar to Series.Fargo Season One). But they are also stubby. So in the meantime, should they be moved to the Series/ namespace?
Veteran Editor IV
I think that'd be fine.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
I don't see how you could justify moving Thomas and Friends to Series/, considering it's not and never has been a live-action series. It doesn't have any live actors.
I would say it's a very limited sort of animation, personally.
Edited by HeavyMetalHermitCrab on Oct 25th 2021 at 1:29:02 PM
(she/her)
(Late) Yeah, Thomas and Friends is an animated series and has been classified as such on other platforms. It’s a form of stop animation.
Macron's notes
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Magic Railroad should still go in Film, but I’ll fold my other arguments. The shots were filmed in real time, but not continuously, as the faces can change between shots.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Nov 6th 2021 at 7:25:25 AM
I want to make a page for the Japanese folktale Tsuru no Ongaeshi ("The Grateful Crane/The Crane Wife"). Unlike, say, The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, to the best of my knowledge, it's not really written down or collated by a collector (as many of the fairytales in Literature/ are). Should it go in Myth/?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I would assume so.
I'd like to bring up that Fanfic Recs is a misleading namespace since it can be used for other kinds of Fan Works. Should it be renamed? And would such a thing be feasible?
I'm helping!
The entire namespace was brought up for discussion not long ago, since it's kinda non-central to the idea of "recurring patterns in media". No real conclusion was reached, but we'd imagine that they'd want to resolve the question of "are we even keeping this" before doing something as effort-intensive as renaming a namespace.
Friends forevermore
The discussion is technically still ongoing, but (from my admittedly biased perspective) I see no way it ends in removal. There's too much opposition to gain consensus.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Since Main.No Except Yes redirects to Main.Distinction Without A Difference, the quotes from Quotes.No Except Yes should go to Quotes.Distinction Without A Difference.
Apologies if this is the wrong thread. Should VideoGame.Tamagotchi be moved to the Toys namespace to match other virtual pets like Toys.Giga Pets and Toys.Pokemon Pikachu?
the Retromancer
Seems like it.
Literature.Lyttle Lytton Contest appears to be troping the entries to a contest on a website, so why is it in the Literature namespace, shouldn't it be under the Web Site namespace.
the Retromancer
The entire example list on that page goes against Tvt's ZCE standards, what even is this.
The quotes? Well, the quotes are basically all there are, sure, we could explain more for some, but not much?
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Industrious Incisors
I think the creator of the page Character.The Amazing Race 33 made a typo; it needs to be Characters.
SoundCloud
the Retromancer
Messgage the creator to copy the page to Characters/ and cutlist this one.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I’d appreciate some help dewicking WesternAnimation.The Itchy And Scratchy Show, a JFF page that for some reason got put in a main work namespace. I’ve already cutlisted it and moved it to the JFF namespace, but it has almost 200 wicks.
Same deal with WesternAnimation.Terrance And Philip, Film.Cleaver, and Film.The Wedding Bride.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jan 26th 2022 at 3:58:47 PM
Friends forevermore
Moving these pages to JFF may counter-intuitively lead tropers to treat them as "real" works, because of the long history of hoax work pages in JFF.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Well... Isn't that sort of the point? For people to pretend they're real, I mean. I don't think a single person will find a JFF "work page" and assume the work is legitimately real.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 26th 2022 at 4:54:33 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Back in the day, these hoax work pages were actually put in the normal article spaces.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I assume Stop Motion would involve the models being posed every frame, while as far as I can tell Thomas uses realtime footage of mechanical trains. I think it would actually go under Puppet Shows, which used to have a namespace but seems to have been moved to Film and Series at some point.