Is this an example?

Is this example from Robin Hood (2018) given that a mild case sounds like Weasel Words:

• Critical Dissonance: A mild case; while the film was panned by critics, with a 13% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, audiences were more mixed (56% on RT, 5.3 on IMDb).

Franchise Original Sin is supposed to be about an ignored flaw that was in one installment of a work being made more prominent in a later installment, does this example from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows count considering it's talking about something from one work affecting other works in unrelated franchises:

• Franchise Original Sin: This started a trend of book-to-movie adaptations being split into multiple parts in what's often been viewed as a blatant cash-grab. Many people didn't mind it with Deathly Hallows, due to the volume of material they'd have to adapt, and since the prior Harry Potter movies were increasingly criticized for all they had to adapt out. When the trend happened with works that didn't need the extra length and subsequently suffered from Padding (e.g. The Hunger Games: Mockingjay, The Hobbit), it soured audience tolerance towards this.

And given how often how often these two YMMV items are misused, could I get confirmation as to whether these examples from Magnum, P.I. (2018) are being used correctly?:

• Critical Research Failure: Like Hawaii Five-0, the North Korean scenes don't have a lot of trees.
• Internet Backdraft: A lot of fans were not at all pleased, because another cult classic is being rebooted for modern audiences.

Critical Dissonance backs up the statement with numbers, so I think it's fine.

Franchise Original Sin is being misused.

Critical Research Failure is a misuse, unless there's a strong reason to assume the show's target audience is familiar with the arboreal density of North Korea. Internet Backdraft is definitely a misuse.

In Fairy Tail, Lucy casts off her family name for a while after she leaves her home to join Fairy Tail. Would that count as a That Woman Is Dead example?

Edited by gjjones on Nov 25th 2018 at 3:25:58 PM

I would say no, given both the "for a while" and that, far as I remember, she still goes by Heartfilia.

That Man Is Dead requires a complete rejection of whoever they one were

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 25th 2018 at 1:34:03 PM

Edited by Malady on Nov 25th 2018 at 12:49:14 PM

What trope is that supposed to be?

Oh, I just got mixed up between this and TLP...

Dramatic Wind, is this a straight example or something like a parody, since it's sort of dramatic, but it happens very frequently...

Why would that be a parody?

- True, there's no intent to be parodic. Maybe like Downplayed or something, or a similar trope...

The trouble I'm having with it, is that the use doesn't feel Dramatic, it's used to end scenes, not start them or produce tension?

Maybe it's not a trope we have at all?

From Intentional Engrish for Funny:

• Azumanga Daioh: Miss Yukari is "supposedly an English teacher", but every time she speaks English it's with a very thick accent. "Oh yah, great! Fan-tas-teek!"

Is Yukari an example? From what I've heard, her English is fine on its own. She just has a Japanese accent.

The Lastof These Is Not Likethe Others is a dialogue trope, right? I deleted an example in Characters.Zombie Land Saga but another troper added it back. Here's the example for reference.

• She's the only zombie in the group with absolutely no details on her life, and the only one by the end of episode 1 who remains a mindless flesh eater. Even before the other girls awakened she was different, being a deranged fast zombie that lunged at people in comparison to their relatively normal shambling.

• Star Wars Resistance was put into a quite unfortunate hole when Rachel Butera, who voices Leia, put up a video on Twitter where she appeared to be mocking Dr. Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who first accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexually abusing her. This tactic was a staple of the right-wing playbook since the allegations went public, but unfortunately for Butera, the Star Wars fanbase is mostly liberal and thus believed Ford's allegations. It didn't help that she played a character who had become a symbol of the anti-Trump resistance (which took off around the same time her original actress died). The backlash was so swift and heavy that Butera took the video down just half an hour later, apologizing profusely and insisting she was entirely on Ford's side and the video was simply meant as a demonstration of her vocal talents. The reaction was also especially brutal as Disney had recently fired James Gunn for a similar offense on the same website.

This was remove elsewhere per this. Does the removal reason still apply? And what is being overshadowed by this controversy as opposed to just being a controversy?

I added the Harry Potter Franchise Original Sin since Franchise Original Sin.Film (and other pages) included a medium-wide example and when I asked this thread about it, it was ignored so I assumed it was legit. Does this mean I should remove any examples that are about the medium or genre as opposed to just the franchise?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Nov 26th 2018 at 12:54:56 PM

It's still a dramatic pose. It counts. It makes the pose look cooler.

Most English in anime is with a thick accent, because most Japanese are pretty crap at English. I don't think it's an example.

Doesn't look like an example. The trope isn't where one person stands out. It's where the sequence is played for the contrast. If there's no clear sequence, it doesn't fit.

Also, the image on The Lastof These Is Not Likethe Others might be misleading, since that is the one thing that stands out. It's not quite what the trope is about. In Western reading order, it's the second to last item. I'm also not sure about the two last items in the subtrope list, Token Index and Weird Aside. They're not quite the same thing.

Speaking of which, the example above might be some kind of token.

The example explains the controversy, but there's nothing about how the show itself is completely overshadowed by it. Is the controversy the one thing you think about when you hear about the work?

For the Franchise Original Sin, I've been thinking about it. The thing is, when it comes to genres, there's nothing that says you have to keep them. Genres are loose enough as it is. It's probably more of Follow the Leader than anything else.

I'm still inclined to cut. While most people I know want the actress replaced, Leia's not really an important enough character in the show that it's "overshadowing" anything.

Edit: In fact I might even go so far as to say that the controversy is fueled by how little it affects the show.

Edited by nrjxll on Nov 26th 2018 at 6:00:10 AM

Repeating a question:

What's the difference between a Nearly Normal Animal, specifically a Largely Normal Animal, and a Partially Civilized Animal? Can a Largely Normal Animal have mythology and Animal Religions? Does having that and/or a medical system make them Partially Civilized?

On YMMV.Star Wars Resistance, there's an example of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped:

• Don't put up with terrible people under the belief that everyone should be treated fairly. If you let them be assholes, then they're gonna take that opportunity and run with it, which will eventually culminate in them doing awful things, and when that happens, it'll be too late to stop them. Early on in the show, the people on the Colossus do nothing about the First Order's presence on their station because they think that they have an equal right to go there and that they're ultimately harmless, and we know that this kind of inaction in dealing with the First Order is what allows it to grow into the force it is in the Sequel Trilogy. At the time of the show's release, a controversy in the U.S. over dealing with white supremacy and Neo-Nazism was claiming that these groups are victims for being harassed about their "opinion" that they should be allowed to practice and that people should be "civil" towards these kinds of people under the logic that hostility towards them will make you no better than them, so it's been argued that this kind of complacency is what makes way for fascism.

It's the last few sentences of the entry I'm concerned about, the part about the U.S. controversy and white supremacy and Neo-Nazism. It really doesn't have anything to do with the show itself, and it just reads like someone was using the rest of the entry as a springboard for their own political opinion. Maybe that wasn't the intent, but that's how it comes off to me. The "it's been argued" part also sounds like weasel words.

Should I lop off that part of the entry?

Can you check this page for plot holes?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AdaptationInducedPlotHole/GameOfThrones

Are there any specific examples you think don't fit?

I don't see what's anvilicious about it. It just seems like a lesson to learn from it, with no mention of how heavy-handed it is.

The politics comparison should definitely go, regardless. The only reason it would be appropriate would be if there were an explicit connection between them, but that's not the case.

YMMV.Beanis Cinematic Universe

• Audience-Alienating Premise: It's a story about people creating sex toys out of magic bean paste.

The fact that it has spawned a ton of stories from multiple authors suggests it's too successful to count, as we decided Audience-Alienating Premise needs to have actually alienated audiences to count.

How can we tell if a fan work, which can be extremely niche and exempt from the normal metric of this trope (commercially unsuccessful) counts?

I say cut fan work examples that don't give objective evidence audiences were put off. Objections?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Nov 27th 2018 at 12:37:32 PM

I didn't think of that before, but that's a good point. There really isn't anything anvilicious about it either. I think it's a legit example otherwise, however. I might move it to An Aesop.

Edited by StardustSoldier on Nov 27th 2018 at 12:51:04 PM

Fanwork examples, by definition, includes in its premise that it's based on a source work, so you automatically have that fanbase as a base for the audience of the fanwork. People who like fanworks are often curious about what-ifs and weird interpretations and situations. I think all of that means that a premise has to be extremely off-putting to count as truly alienating.

Yeah, An Aesop might be a better fit.

Edited by AnotherDuck on Nov 27th 2018 at 1:00:05 PM

I'm working on an entry that I think fits If I Can't Have You…, but I'm not certain if it's a proper example of the trope. It has the spirit, and the trope even gets name-checked, but as you'll see it's a bit of a different play from the normal version of the trope:

• In the Black Jack Justice episode "A Simple Case of Black and White", Jack and Trixie are hired by pro bowler Jim White to find the woman and child he left behind years ago. The detectives find them, and that the woman has since married a man named Donald Black and was living a good life. Before the detectives can work out what to tell their client, he's found dead, shot in the stomach in his motel room with a gun registered to Black. The detectives eventually realize that the case is hardly a simple one, as the gun that killed White was stolen last year... at a time when White would have been in town for a tournament. Their theory becomes that White found his ex the year before, couldn't handle that she had moved on, stole the gun and concocted a plan to kill himself and frame her current husband for the crime. The gut shot was deliberate, to give him time to dispose of the evidence before he died. The district attorney this is explained to disbelievingly summarizes the motive as "If I can't have my son, then no one will, that's the idea?" before he's forced to acknowledge it as likely enough to be reasonable doubt to Black's guilt.

There's probably room to trim that down if this is, indeed, a legit entry. For the moment though I figure too much context is better than not enough.

Should I cut the Audience-Alienating Premise unless it provides objective evidence they were alienated (as it's being as successful as it is argues against that)?

If something is not significantly less successful then expected from the intended audience, then I don't think it qualifies.