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Broken Base / Tales Series

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With a longstanding franchise as the Tales games, the base is bound to be broken. Be aware of potentially unmarked Spoilers!


General

  • Whether games created by Team Symphonia note  or by Team Destiny note  are the better ones. Hardcore fans of either base are unlikely to admit liking games created by the other teams, whereas a third party, who enjoys both games, is generally ignored.
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  • Like any long-running franchise fans will always debate over which game is the best, which party was the best, which hero and heroine are the best, and who the best villain is.
  • The fandom is separated into three camps, for the most part: Destiny purists, who look down on anyone who jumped into the series after 1998 as a bunch of posers (or even Phantasia purists, who consider the Destiny ones the posers); the Symphonia camp that joined because of the Newbie Boom caused by Tales of Symphonia, with each camp considering their game to be the apex of the series and the rest of the games, before or after, to being downhill after that; and finally the third, fairly well-behaved and quite small general Tales fans, who mostly scamper around and enjoy all the games, while trying to avoid being crushed beneath the previous two juggernauts lumber around the internet, slugging it out like kaijuu.
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  • The base has begun to break at how well the Tales series still continues with its tendency to start off as a Cliché Storm but becoming a Deconstructor Fleet. Some still consider the games to churn out good stories and characters, others think that it hasn't changed for years and it has lost its appeal.
  • More recently, there has been a been a bit of a divide between fans who like the darker stories and bittersweet or even downer endings that more recent games have had, and fans who feel that the series is getting too dark to be enjoyable and that the unhappy endings make the stories feel pointless, and would prefer the series go back to having lighter stories and unambiguously happy endings.
  • The series has drawn criticism from other Namco pre-merge IP fans in recent years with accusations that the series is becoming oversaturated and is keeping many of said properties "dead". This especially became noticeable when Namco Bandai themselves shifted their development priority from their flagship franchise (Namely because they want budget titles or more specifically, a true successor to a certain platforming/adventure spinoff.) to the Tales series in the later 2010's. Fans claim the series deserves the attention it gets and bring up the fact the series used to be neglected prior to Symphonia and that the series is far from suffering fatigue or over-saturation, While some fans agree the series needs a break to recharge it's creative batteries, namely after Berseria. (see below) Needless to say, This has done little to calm down these other IP fans. Not helping matters is Tales is one of the few pre-merge properties Namco seems to be utilizing properly anymore.
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Tales of the Abyss

  • This game was overall the most polarizing game of the franchise when it initially released. Depending on how you feel about the story, it's either wildly melodramatic and overblown, or it's the high-water mark of the entire Tales franchise and one of the highest in the entire Eastern RPG genre, and relatedly, either a game its successors learned a lot from to improve themselves, or a game which its successors have never really managed to properly follow up on or surpass. Not many people take a middle ground. It's worth noting that in Japan, it was voted the most popular game in the Tales series in a Famitsu poll.
  • In the first few years following the games release, you would commonly see the Tales of fanbase arguing over which game is superior, Abyss or Symphonia. The rivalry got even when Vesperia came out and basically made a three way Flame War over it. Ironically all three parties argue only over mainly story and characters and never really about gameplay, music, or graphics.

Tales of Graces

  • The battle system gained quite some hate on one end. Claims were made that it essentially boiled down to only dodge-and-mash tactics, and that players would be doing it over and over again to win. Not only that, but because bosses were able to break free of combos more than Tales of Vesperia, aerial game was off-limits, and that there were artes that left you open for enemy attacks (no thanks to the aforementioned combo breaks), it would be the same tactic with the same useful artes only used on almost every boss. Over and over again to win. This only seems to be a problem during solo runs, but it also happens with normal runs when given the chance.
    • In short the fact it plays much differently than what most westerners are used to (Vesperia, Abyss, Symphonia), even compared to Xillia (which played closer to the 3 games than Graces)
  • The base had another fracture when Tales Of Graces F was announced, mostly because owners of the Wii version. essentially purchased a beta version. In all honesty, people didn't know what to think, since normally, it's the "Beta version" that gets released overseas. Many people were simply happy just that they got the game period, among those are people who cite that the original version on the Wii was filled with so many Game Breaking Bugs that game owners had to mail in their copies to fix them. Combined with the PS3 having more of a presence in the JRPG genre, it was probably for the best that the rest of the world got F instead.
  • The handling of Asbel and Cheria's romantic relationship. In the main arc, Cheria's unrequited feelings for Asbel made her eventually decide to move on and do things on her own, knowing that Asbel was too oblivious to ever realize things. Some people thought this was a lovely way to show their budding romance, leaving it subtle and not taking over the plot, with most romantic moments being relegated to optional side-quests; others thought this left their random hook up in the final cutscene that depicted one of their descendants being read to by an adult Sophie to be out of nowhere. Come the Lineage and Legacies arc, Asbel now stutters and blushes around Cheria and the entire party has nothing better to do than to tease the two about their obvious feelings. Contrary to appeasing the fans, this led both camps to discuss now whether it was necessary, saying that this arc was now too in-your-face about their romance and ruining the subtlely in the main arc and others felt it was finally showing what they had expected to see before.
  • The suddenly sprouting romance between Hubert and Pascal, again in the Lineage and Legacies arc. Similar to Asbel's ramped up acting around Cheria, Hubert now stutters around Pascal and generally acts like a typical Tsundere around the person they like. And the ending has Pascal's sister basically tell Hubert that he has her on his hands now. One part of the fanbase thought it was a quirky, funny romance compared to the sappy one Asbel and Cheria had in this arc, others felt like it was an Ass Pull of unnecessarily shoving two characters, who had no actual romantic relation in the main arc, together.
  • The extent to how woobiefied Lambda was. The fanbase discusses if his intense desire to destroy the world was understandable, due to his repeated torture he was submitted to for a long time. The other side says that it was a poor attempt to woobiefy him unnecessarily, when he is an entity that had no other purpose than to destroy things to begin with.
  • How Lambda was finally dealt with. Asbel talks with Lambda, who finally decides to reside in Asbel's body now and observe humanity, to see if it was worth letting them live. Part of the fanbase found this to be a nice change to how most villains are dealt with and gave Lambda a chance to see that his tendency to destroy things was not warranted, others found this to be a mediocre and very boring way to finish things off.

Tales of Vesperia

  • Arguably one for the whole franchise. Some people declare it the best game in the series and think the plot and gameplay are near-perfect. Others utterly despise its story for not focusing on Character Development as much as past titles and savagely despise how the vigilante arc is shunted to one side to make room for a global warming plot.
    • The PS3 version for being launched a year latter, for having some additional content (although the story still the same) and for not being released outside of Japan (the only Tales of of 7th generation for PS3 to stay at Japan). Also, datamining revealed that some PS3-only features are on the 360 version's disc. Thankfully the 10th anniversary Definite Edition will include all PS3 contents and be available worldwide for all platforms.

Tales of Hearts

  • The quality of the western localization. The state of the PS Vita market meant that the only feasible way to release the game in the west was to do it on a reduced budget, hence the lack of dub. Yet many other decisions around the localisation have also raised eyebrows, from the quality of the translation, to the character names (which sound particularly odd given the unchanged vocal track), to the choice of release date (which will have the game competing against a number of much more high-profile releases). Generally, fans have fallen into three categories: Those who are overall happy with the release (some of whom actually prefer the sub-only approach), those who have issues with one or more aspect of the release but still think it's better than nothing, and those who feel like they didn't put any effort into it.

Tales of Xillia

  • Some of the dub name changes - using Spyrix and Spyrite, respectively, compared to Jin/Gin and Origin, or naming the organization Exodus instead of Arc Noah. Some fans liked how they sounded more distinct in English (or, in the Origin/Spyrite case, not named the same as one of the summon spirits), while others much preferred the Japanese terms.
  • Some hate how the bosses are much tougher to battle, especially with the ability of Iron Stance, which makes it significantly harder to stagger or combo-lock them. Others love them for providing a bigger challenge.
  • Milla's English voice acting. Several fans and reviewers labelled it as genuinely poor, while others found it to be an in-character quirk of hers, including the apparently purposefully-done lisp in her voice which is not natural to Minae Noji's normal speaking voice. There are also those who thought her voice acting started off fairly poorly, but improved as the game went on. Then there are those who simply don't like Minae Noji's voice acting, because she is not as good as Miyuki Sawashiro - or because she simply isn't Miyuki Sawashiro.
  • Jude and Milla's relationship in the game. It's disliked because it leads to Jude ignoring Leia; neither he or Milla openly admitting their feelings for each other or the fact that it's implied that Everyone Can See It along with the Shipteasing, that doesn't actually happen. Others enjoyed it, because it was a romance that did not take over majority of the plot or was shoved into the player's face. The relationship is especially breaking the base in the English version, as there's an apparent lack of chemistry between the two voice actors (Sam Riegel and Minae Noji) and translation issues that left some of the dialogue lacking the more romantic or emotional notion in Japanese. Add this to the higher level of disdain for Milla already...
  • The high amount of shilling Milla gets throughout the game. Several players found it annoying to listen to and not deserved, others didn't mind and felt it was appropriate for the party to react to Milla, who is a God in Human Form, after all.

Tales of Xillia 2

  • The fans of this game can be separated into three bases: One part is quite happy that Namco decided to go darker with the game, compared to some of the previous games. The second part is the opposite, thinking Namco went too far with going dark and caused Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. And the third considers the game to be an unnecessary stand-alone game that is filled with things that should have been in the previous game, making it feel like overpriced DLC.
  • The translation altering certain interactions, especially between Jude and Alternate Milla. In the Japanese version, Jude refers to her as 'Milla-san' which indicates a subtle, but still distinct barrier between the two and how Jude does not consider Alternate Milla as close as he did with regular Milla. The honorific was dropped in the English version, naturally, but Jude also became much more easily accepting of Alternate Milla.
  • Milla's voice acting, again, now separated into Alternate Milla and regular Milla's work. Alternate Milla is more open, brash and filled with emotions, which some disliked as it felt so different from how Milla originally was, despite Alternate Milla not being the same Milla. Others enjoyed it, as it showed what Minae Noji could do. Regular Milla lost her forced lisp, which some thought was a good change and others disliked it, thinking it took a unique characteristic from her. Then there is a third camp that prefers Alternate Milla's voice to regular Milla's, due to the aforementioned increase of emotions. Regular Milla still retains a rather stoic way of talking in comparison.
  • The sudden focus on Jude and Milla in the former's later Character Episodes, which has an eerie feeling of comparison to the Graces example above. Some found it an endearing nod and bone thrown to the shippers, who would have preferred a bit more obvious interactions in the previous game, while others felt that it was unnecessarily shoved in for a pairing that they never believed to begin with and took focus away from what Jude's Character Episodes were doing: focusing on him and establishing him as more than a Satellite Character, with his own story of trying to get Spyrite technology to work. Said technology is still present in those later Character Episodes, but feels like it became a minor subplot that was ignored in favor of Milla and Jude acting awkward around each other.

Tales of Zestiria

  • Is the PS3 version is an Obvious Beta money grab or a decent game on its own?
  • Does the plot match the effectiveness of previous Tales games or is it just a stereotypical RPG with the Tales logo slapped on it? The skits and party interaction says the former, while the Lighterand Softer plot elements, predictable questline, and forgettable villains suggest the latter.
  • The opening theme song "White Light" itself. Half of the fanbase find the song is weird and not fit with the opening or Tales series in general while the other half find the song to be refreshing from usual JPOP. There's also a third party that loves the song but don't like the animation that accompanies it.
  • Sorey and Mikleo's presumed romantic relationship has caused for both backlash and celebration, though being a same-sex couple in a game that was expecting a completely different love interest, it was inevitable. On one hand, some are complaining about people suggesting it at all, while others consider them revolutionary and one of the most well-written couples in the series because of their chemistry and unconditional devotion to each other. Then there are some that question the validity of the whole thing, given the light amount of Ship Tease within the game.
  • The PC version being locked to 30FPS, the original frame rate of the console version (a bit of a Berserk Button for PC gamers, since their overpowered machines can run games leagues better than consoles). Some don't care, particularly because the publishers gave a perfectly good reason (i.e., it'd break the battle systemnote ). Others swore to boycott the game because of the lock.
    • An unofficial fix to increase the framecap to 60FPS has been made, which has resulted in accusations that the porting team were too lazy to implement a fix if their own.
  • The game's dub cast has also split the base. It's generally agreed that Robbie Daymond, Alexis Tipton, Carrie Keranen, and Ian Sinclair did amazing with their roles as Sorey, Alisha, Lailah, and Zaveid respectively, but the rest of the cast is pretty divisive. Some think Kira Buckland is too bored and dry as Edna for example, while some think she's perfect for it. The biggest contender is Mikleo who's voiced by Michael Johnston. Much like Milla Maxwell and her English voice actor, many feel as though his voice talent doesn't quite live up to the character while some think he did fine.
  • The combat system is also this. The sheer complexity and amount of factors involved can make the system a huge turn off to some people, yet others love it for the same reason. The weapon skill system is either considered needlessly convoluted or a great way to customize characters. The armatization system is seen as an interesting new feature that allows the entire party to participate despite the Arbitrary Headcount Limit, or a criminally discriminate one that causes the Seraphim characters to act as little more than accessories for the two human characters.
  • The first episode of the anime has a bit of a split base. Part of the fanbase thinks it's fantastic that it added original content and expanded more on Alisha's character, another part doesn't like it because of what Alisha ends up going through or find it just boring, while another part thinks that it was a big mistake because it was either boring or out of fear that it will cause another backlash.
    • The season finale to the anime has also received some mixed reception with half of the fanbase thinking that it was a decent ending to the season while others thought it was a complete narrative mess.
  • The decision to adapt the beginning of Tales of Berseria in episodes 5 and 6 of the Zestiria anime also divided the fandom. Some of them liked the change of pace, finding Berseria's darker nature more interesting than Zestiria, others disliked it because it used screentime who could have been used to adapt Zestiria's plot better. Others viewed the sudden inclusion of the Berseria plotline as a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment which didn't have anything to do with the main storyline.
  • The second season of the anime. Many were disappointed, as it's loaded with filler despite its limited twelve-episode format and diverges from the game's story entirely. It consistently sidelines Sorey and the Seraphim to focus almost completely on Rose and Alisha. It also ends up contradicting in game lore from from both Zestiria and Berseria especially in later episodes. Some detractors of the game thought the original story was a mess, and the studio is trying to make something better rather than stick to an inferior script. While there are others detractors of game dislike the game's story but still feel as though the anime is actively worse than it.
  • How the armatus is handled in the anime's second season namely Alisha being able to armatize and more recently Sorey simultaneously armatizing with his four seraph companions. One party loves it and wishes something like that was in the game while the second party hates it and will mercilessly mock it particularly the latter example as right when it came out people started posting memes and drawing derogatory comparisons to several magical girl anime namely Shugo Chara!.
  • Dezel's death in the anime was treated in a similar way. With one portion saying it was just as just as emotional if not more than the game, another thought it was pointless as the characters powered through a field of dragons in the previous episode so they feel there should be no excuse for him to die, while a third party are just psyched that a certain line from the game was in the English dub.
  • The second season's finale as while one party thinks it ended the anime perfectly the other half thinks it was a last ditch effort to fix the anime that came far too late. While there is a third party who thinks that the anime should've ended with the Bad Ending because it technically follows all of the conditions for the bad ending with a rare few wanting it because they felt the anime was too saccharine.

Tales of Berseria

  • Not even a week after the game's announcement, the fandom started fighting over Velvet's design. Some think she looks to be a badass female heroine unashamed to show some skin. Others say it's a creepy oversexualized attempt at winning back the crowd after Tales of Zestiria received so many complaints over how they handled Alisha and Rose. Also, there had been fighting over whether Velvet's design is an edgy new direction for female characters considering most other designs depict female characters in bright or cute outfits or a lazy rehash of the Gilchrist/Katrea siblings or a dark-haired Milla Maxwell with a terrible impractical outfit reminiscent of a '90s Anti-Hero.
  • The game is confirmed to take place the same world as Zestiria. The fans opinion are divide into many groups. Some are happy that Zestiria's world will be expanded, some aren't happy because Berseria takes place before Zestiria due to a Cliffhanger ending. There are also fans who are not happy about it at all due to the poor reception Zestiria had for them.
    • The fact that Berseria is going to have to play janitor to Zestiria's numerous unexplained plot threads that it should have explained in the game but instead left hanging is also a source of contention as some welcome the chance to explore the world of Zestiria more and to improve the game's lore while some wish it was its own stand alone title and not a new game in itself.
  • The fact that the game came out only about a year and a half after Zestiria has also caused a split on the quality of the game since it reuses many assets from Zestiria. One group is fine with it while another hates it.
  • The way the death of Laphicet was altered in the western version caused controversy in the fandom. Bandai has issued a statement saying the scene was altered for the sake of keeping its rating. Some people are against the scene being censored, and think the company should just give the game an adult rating, while also claiming that it makes Velvet's obsession with killing Artorius in a very specific way with a very specific sword make no sense in the altered version. Then there are people who think the whole controversy was blown out of proportion since Velvet's brother still dies, it's just a matter of how. In addition, because of how early this event is in the games story, it was very difficult to get around, with defenders pointing out that the issue really lies with the original cut of the scene for. There's also a third group of people who say the issue isn't with Bandai, but rather the the ESRB/PEGI ratings systems for being so backwards as to what constitutes an adult rating, and for being hypocritical since other games, primarily Western-developed games, that show the deaths of children can still "somehow" get away with a lower rating.
  • The ending is showing signs of becoming this. While a Bitter Sweet Ending is nothing new to the Tales series, several fans have expressed how they're sick of them and just want a truly happy ending for once. The biggest point of contention is Velvet's final fate. Is it a fitting end to her tale and a symbolic redemption of all the morally dubious actions she's committed throughout the story, or a needlessly cruel act of spite that goes out of its way to shoot down the notion that she may one day return like Luke or Sorey did? Others believe that after the sheer hell she's endured, Velvet deserved a happy ending instead of what she got.

Tales of the World

  • On the Radiant Mythology side, people are split on who the best healers are. The arguments usually are whether or not Estelle, Mint, or Tear is the best healer, nevermind the fact that the above three are only a few of the healers in game. In general bringing up ideal parties is treading on Flame Bait.

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