Discussion VideoGame / SuperSmashBros

I've just had this thought. So, if Master Hand and Crazy Hand are the hands of one entity, why is Master Hand a lot more controlled than Crazy Hand? Is Crazy Hand a case of Alien Hand Syndrome? If so, why does it work with Master Hand on attacks?

Should the Fatal Frame series be grouped in with third party properties? It started out as a wholly Koei Tecmo owned IP, but has since become co-owned by Nintendo as of the fourth game. I believe all Fatal Frame content in Smash originates from that game and onward as well. Pokémon is also co-owned by companies independent of Nintendo and that series is grouped with first party properties. Should FF be moved, perhaps with a note added to ackowledge its circumstances?

Related Trope Repair Shop discussion.

There are so many stages between the 5 games that I'm wondering if we should put all stage-specific examples to their own page. I have a sandbox version of such an article ready here.

Could we have separate pages for the different games? It's needlessly wordy/tedious to specify the game of the example for every trope, and sometimes tropers just don't specify at all.. (Example: "In Brawl...", "Characters have great costumes this time around.") Also, the Subspace Emissary section, which only applies to Brawl, already has a big portion that it might as well be on a different page. I think the three games have enough material to justify having their own space. I suggest that we have:

-Main page

-Smash64

-Melee

-Brawl (Space for Subspace.)

-Game Modifications (By the time the Project:M is released, there will be a lot to say about it, and it's too different from Brawl (think 70% Melee, 10% 64, and 20% original material) to be in the Brawl folder. The other Brawl mods might as well go here too.

It's a bit late for this, but I have a couple of suggestions to make the game a little more forgiving in terms of collectibles.

1. If you already have a Custome Move, Mii Headwear, or Mii Fighter Outfit, you can't get a duplicate in reward drops. Fighter equipment and trophies are still endless drops.

2. Trophy Trade-In. What I mean by this is a system where you can exchange duplicate trophies for equipment, trophies, or Custom Equipment/Moves. Any kind of trophy can be exchanged, but if exchanged trophies are from one series, then you get an item from that series. Random trophies from any series will net a random result.

Say you have five copies of the Rocketbarrel Pack. Trade those in, and you'll get a new trophy from the DK series.

Reward system could be as so:

• 2 trophies = Equipment Piece
• 5 trophies = Unobtained trophy
• 10 trophies = Custom Move/Mii Outfit/Headwear

Luigi-Mario PREDICTED THE FUTURE OF THE NEXT GAME AFTER BRAWL!!!!

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-8-player-debate.72307/

Why is The Comically Serious canceled out on Cloud Strife's Smash 4 character section?

should we add explanation notes for the stage/item/enemy/assist trophy list? we already have clarifications for a few of the titles (motion sensor bomb is from goldeneye but genericized, unira is based on an enemy from clu clu land), and the fighter list also clarifies what fighters come from where, so it might be for the better to include it. if we did, it might look something like this:

• Panel de Pon ^note The Lip's Stick item is based on this game's protagonist, Lip.
• Perfect Dark* ^note The Cloaking Device item in Melee was taken from this game, and the Japanese version replaces the Motion Sensor Bomb item with the Proximity Mine from this game. Like the Motion Sensor Bomb, the Cloaking Device's origin is listed as TOP SECRET in the English version.
• PictoChat ^note The PictoChat stage is based on this app.
• Pilotwings ^note The Rocket Belt item and the Pilotwings stage are both based on this franchise, though mainly the Nintendo 3DS installment Pilotwings Resort.
• Rally-X* ^note The iconic Special Flag appears as an item.
• Rhythm Heaven ^note Sneaky Spirits are featured as enemies in Smash Run.

do you think this is a good idea, or should we leave it alone?

Does anyone have a Way Back Machine link to the Melee website?

Alright Hot Topic Krew has its own fanfictions and four different accounts on different websites how much longer until it gets its own page

• Disney Owns This Trope: The Frisbee® Dog trophy in the PAL version of the SSB 4 U. (The NTSC version just calls it the Disc Dog.)

The first is not an instance of Disney Owns This Trope, and the second is more Brand X. Is this worth rewriting and putting it under the Brand X trope?

Looking at the shout-outs, are some of these actually shout outs? Some of them seem more like funny coincidences to me.

I know coincidences are allowed for expies, but shout-outs have to be intentional, right?

I just found out during Smash Run that the Arms stat is not only affected by wielding items, but it also affects the player's grabbing, pummeling and throwing as well. Shouldn't that be a subversion of Dump Stat?

Should we have another folder on this page listing games that are represented through non-gameplay means (trophies, stickers, music tracks)? As other people have stated, the Rayman trophy is very noteworthy, but doesn't fit under the category of "items, stages, and assist trophies." There are several other series with pages that are only shown in the game this way (Wonderful 101, Elite Beat Agents, Tetris, etc.)

Concerning the boxing titlse under the names of characters that are in the Wii U version... Should we also include the names from the EU version? Or just pick one or the other? Or not add them entirely?

Should Yoshi's Woolly World really be listed under the additional series included tab? Sure, it has a stage, but it's still a Yoshi game and part of the Yoshi series.

• Awesome, but Impractical: A story mode like The Subspace Emissary was a really great idea on paper. Development wise though, it was simply an infeasible mess, as it was essentially an entirely separate game being developed alongside a full fledged fighting game. The SSE and its cutscenes took up over half of Brawl's disc space, and took up a majority of Brawl's development (and even then the SSE couldn't be finished properly, with the last quarter of it being a complete rehashing in the Great Maze). The SSE was responsible for Brawl's infamous significant delays, and is the culprit behind much of the planned content being cut, most of the other 1P modes being neutered, and the general lack of polish in all areas of Brawl. It is also the reason why Brawl was on a dual-layered disc (which prevented many players' Wiis from being able to read Brawl). For a sideshow act no one bought the game for, such a massive story wasn't worth it (which is exasperated farther by the SSE's lukewarm reception in general and the cutscenes being uploaded on youtube for people to watch without playing it anyway). Sakurai recognised the impractically of developing such a massive story with cutscenes, and as such, decided to cut it altogether in Smash 4.

This looks like it has a lot of natter and speculation. Should it be removed?

Some thoughts on Mook tropes:

After playing smash run a couple hundred times I think that ghastly, shield ghost, and koffing, all deserve the status of goddamn bats because of their ability to disrupt the momentum of the player, be frustrating to kill due to partial invulnerability, and for possessing level drain effects.

Additionally I nominate the devil car for the position of that one boss/midboss because it is the only creature in the game that can come flying in from absolutely nowhere and murder you. It also holds the honor of being the only boss with enough mobility to actually pursue the player should he try to escape.

Is the Filler entry really necessary? It doesn't even apply to filler in the game itself, but to filler in updates to the website. Aside from that, it just seems whiny.

Removed from the YMMV page:

• Medal of Dishonor:
  • During Brawl, much of the fanbase considered using Golden Hammers on the Challenge squares taboo because it labels players as being to lazy/bad at the game to complete it - it didn't help that the game marked which squares you'd hammered.
  • Still exists in U/3DS' Challenges, but there are some that people won't admonish you for hammering, namely the ones that require collecting Outfits, Headgear, Custom Moves and Smash Run Powers due to the mechanics involved.

First, this isn't a YMMV trope. Second, these aren't examples of the trope in question, the mark on the hammered challenge isn't a reward at all. The Even Evil Has Standards pothole is a stretch too. They feel like they could be examples of something, though, but I don't know what. All I can think of is Easy-Mode Mockery, but that's definitely wrong.

Since I forgot to ask about adding my placement of unlocking methods yesterday, I wanted to see if it was okay to change the caption under the 3DS/U logo to "Settle it in Smash!" since the tagline seems more relevant then a 15 year old commercial, even if it was really funny. :p

(On the note of my attempted changes, I actually already unlocked every character except Bowser Jr. at the time (I got him later that night), I just thought it would have been convenient for anyone who hadn't got them yet. I like that they were still bolded though to make it easier to see)

For the Characters page, should we include their "aliases" at all? And if we keep them, should we have them as a header (i.e. "Mega Man joins the battle!") or as a subtitle under the picture, like they are now?

This example was recently removed:

• Would Hurt a Child: With fighters including the likes of Ness, Lucas, and Toon Link, this trope is in full effect.

Opinions?

• Badass Adorable: Let's see...Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Marth, Pit, Meta Knight, Ike, Peach, Yoshi, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, Lucario, Ness, Toon Link, R.O.B., Jigglypuff, Lucas, Pichu, Rosalina & Luma, Palutena, Robin, Villager, Shulk, Dark Pit, Lucina and Mega Man. Though it often depends on opinion, this is what most people agree on.

Okay, this is seriously too long a list. And severe decay, as many of these characters aren't adorable so much as "attractive." Seriously, Mario would be a closer fit for Badass Adorable than say, any of the swordsmen characters. Badass Adorable is "Something that looks delicate or helpless is anything but." The description talks about them seeming vulnerable, but still being very tough. At least half this list has to go.

And it's entirely a Zero Context Example.

Okay, why are spoilers for the fourth game going to be left unmarked on the main page before the games are even officially out? That seems a little extreme. I admit it's probably going to be pretty hard to avoid the spoilers elsewhere anyway, but still.

The Rayman trophy is noteworthy, but should we really include it in the game list, since it's only a trophy?

It looks like the folders on this page broke. It might need to be split up.

Under Cast Herd, case changed this:

unexpected characters (Wario, Sonic and Snake)

to this:

third-party characters (Wario, Sonic and Snake)

I don't understand what he's getting at with Wario here.

Would Reggie's throwdown with Iwata in the Mii Fighter debut trailer count as an Ascended Meme?

It's become clear that the folder indexing where the various characters are drawn from needs some fine-tuning. Especially since I did the edit that started listing which specific characters came from which game, and admittedly wasn't always consistent in listing characters for a specific game vs. the franchise as a whole. I'm just going to go down the list and comment on ones I know have been disputed, as well as ones I have questions on:

• Pit - Should we really specify his WiiU/3DS design as "from" Uprising? Because it actually originated in Brawl.
• Sheik - I'd say list Sheik as specifically from Ocarina, because that's the only time she (is that the right pronoun for a Sweet Polly Oliver persona?) showed up in Zelda canon. We can add a note to Twilight Princess that Brawl's TP redesigns affected her too, even if she wasn't actually in that game.
• Zero Suit Samus - I'd say this version of the character is specifically taken from Zero Mission. The Zero Suit has made brief appearances elsewhere; but it debuted in Zero Mission, takes its name from Zero Mission, and has its biggest playable appearance in Zero Mission. In any case, that was the only game the Brawl version was based on, and she hasn't been announced for WiiU/3DS yet so we don't know how later appearances might affect her.
• Pokémon characters - The characters here are listed by debut game when I've generally not gone strictly by debuts. Just pointing out the discrepancy in case we want to change it.
• Wolf - While he debuted in 64, he's been in most games since so I consider him part of the Star Fox core cast and would list him as a character from the franchise instead of any specific game.
• Rosalina - I'd list her as specific to Mario Galaxy. She has made some other appearances, but I'm not sure I'd count Mario Kart and her 3D World appearance is still pretty overshadowed by Galaxy. Things may change by Smash 5, but I'm not ready to call her part of Mario's core cast yet.

Should we make character pages for Assist Trophies? I know that they never really appear outside of matches and most of their characterization is found solely on their trophies, but one could argue the same for some Melee fighters, and we already have pages for Subspace Emissary bosses.

Plus, Assist Trophy information could help introduce tropers to Nintendo's more obscure, fun franchises.

I think it's high time the page image was changed, because Brawl was released almost 6 years ago. Perhaps the "unified" logo for the next games should be used?

How would people feel about editing the character pages to have infoboxes like the Playstation All-Stars character page has? It'd look something like this:

I'd like to know what people think of Brawl in relation to Adaptation Distillation, Ultimate Universe and Broad Strokes. Brawl's story tends to manage to get across the general idea and arc of characters in simple, wordless cutscenes - Lucas growing from a wimp to a badass, Snake being an Ineffectual Loner, Red wanting to Catch 'Em All - but the problem for me is that none of the tropes quite manage to fit. What do you guys think?

Moderator speaking:

The sentence below has been removed and replaced a couple of times. Please discuss the relevance of the sentence here rather than engaging in an Edit War that may gain the participants a suspension of editing privileges.

Thank you.

See also Super Smash Flash, a series of flash games meant to emulate Super Smash Bros. that is really Growing the Beard, and add Tropes to that page as well.

The Critical Existence Failure description is totally wrong. Nothing sudden happens to you once you hit 100% damage - you receive more knockback gradually as your damage goes up.

RE: Cut The namespace for videogames is Video Games/ Not Games.