Video Game Super Smash Bros Discussion

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05:41:46 PM Jan 5th 2017
It's a bit late for this, but I have a couple of suggestions to make the game a little more forgiving in terms of collectibles.

1. If you already have a Custome Move, Mii Headwear, or Mii Fighter Outfit, you can't get a duplicate in reward drops. Fighter equipment and trophies are still endless drops.

2. Trophy Trade-In. What I mean by this is a system where you can exchange duplicate trophies for equipment, trophies, or Custom Equipment/Moves. Any kind of trophy can be exchanged, but if exchanged trophies are from one series, then you get an item from that series. Random trophies from any series will net a random result.

Say you have five copies of the Rocketbarrel Pack. Trade those in, and you'll get a new trophy from the DK series.

Reward system could be as so:
  • 2 trophies = Equipment Piece
  • 5 trophies = Unobtained trophy
  • 10 trophies = Custom Move/Mii Outfit/Headwear
04:16:23 PM Dec 27th 2015
edited by Arima
11:59:02 AM Dec 7th 2015
edited by Kytseo
Why is The Comically Serious canceled out on Cloud Strife's Smash 4 character section?
02:27:07 PM Jun 15th 2015
should we add explanation notes for the stage/item/enemy/assist trophy list? we already have clarifications for a few of the titles (motion sensor bomb is from goldeneye but genericized, unira is based on an enemy from clu clu land), and the fighter list also clarifies what fighters come from where, so it might be for the better to include it. if we did, it might look something like this:

  • Panel de Pon note 
  • Perfect Dark* note 
  • PictoChat note 
  • Pilotwings note 
  • Rally-X* note 
  • Rhythm Heaven note 

do you think this is a good idea, or should we leave it alone?
02:55:15 PM Jun 13th 2015
Does anyone have a Way Back Machine link to the Melee website?
08:50:58 AM Apr 22nd 2015
Alright Hot Topic Krew has its own fanfictions and four different accounts on different websites how much longer until it gets its own page
11:34:48 AM Apr 22nd 2015
What on Earth are you talking about?
08:01:34 PM Apr 18th 2015

The first is not an instance of Disney Owns This Trope, and the second is more Brand X. Is this worth rewriting and putting it under the Brand X trope?
05:31:02 AM Dec 10th 2014
Looking at the shout-outs, are some of these actually shout outs? Some of them seem more like funny coincidences to me.

I know coincidences are allowed for expies, but shout-outs have to be intentional, right?
05:45:10 AM Dec 10th 2014
Coincidences are absolutely not allowed for Expies. Ditto for Shout-Out.
05:47:00 AM Dec 10th 2014
Actually, coincidences are not allowed to expy either. The description of Expy uses the word "deliberately".
05:48:23 AM Dec 10th 2014
So yeah, some of them should go (like the Domon Kasshu one, sadly).

I can't believe the Karate Joe one is valid though. That's unambiguously intentional, and I find that hilarious.
05:33:49 PM Dec 7th 2014
edited by
I just found out during Smash Run that the Arms stat is not only affected by wielding items, but it also affects the player's grabbing, pummeling and throwing as well. Shouldn't that be a subversion of Dump Stat?
05:30:30 AM Dec 8th 2014
Is that really of any use in Smash run, though? I don't remember ever using throws in Smash Run.
05:35:25 AM Dec 8th 2014
It's just standard and special attacks
03:04:32 PM Nov 29th 2014
Should we have another folder on this page listing games that are represented through non-gameplay means (trophies, stickers, music tracks)? As other people have stated, the Rayman trophy is very noteworthy, but doesn't fit under the category of "items, stages, and assist trophies." There are several other series with pages that are only shown in the game this way (Wonderful 101, Elite Beat Agents, Tetris, etc.)
02:04:42 AM Nov 30th 2014
Er, didn't we already have this conversation farther down?
09:08:27 PM Dec 1st 2014
Well, that was months ago, and I'm not sure anyone wants to be a Thread Necromancer.

In any case, my vote is no. What we have for the gameplay elements is long enough as it is, and a non-gameplay folder would at least double it.
04:18:50 PM Nov 28th 2014
Concerning the boxing titlse under the names of characters that are in the Wii U version... Should we also include the names from the EU version? Or just pick one or the other? Or not add them entirely?
04:49:54 PM Nov 15th 2014
Some thoughts on Mook tropes:

After playing smash run a couple hundred times I think that ghastly, shield ghost, and koffing, all deserve the status of goddamn bats because of their ability to disrupt the momentum of the player, be frustrating to kill due to partial invulnerability, and for possessing level drain effects.

Additionally I nominate the devil car for the position of that one boss/midboss because it is the only creature in the game that can come flying in from absolutely nowhere and murder you. It also holds the honor of being the only boss with enough mobility to actually pursue the player should he try to escape.

03:16:29 PM Nov 9th 2014
Should Yoshi's Woolly World really be listed under the additional series included tab? Sure, it has a stage, but it's still a Yoshi game and part of the Yoshi series.
04:07:06 PM Nov 9th 2014
edited by
I think Yoshi's Woolly World is notable, in that it's the first stage to be included before its source game's release. But it is still part of the Yoshi series, so I'm personally not sure whether it should be listed. I'd say when in doubt, leave it out.
06:22:39 PM Nov 9th 2014
The fact that the stage is included before the game's release is notable as a trope, but this is about listing under the additional series tab when Yoshi is a playable character. The playable character tab is kind of disorganized right now as it is, but that's a completely different issue.
06:01:27 AM Nov 10th 2014
Closest trope I can find is Marth Debuted in "Smash Bros.", actually.
10:40:47 AM Nov 27th 2014
I think Early-Bird Cameo is better trope for it. Marth Debuted in "Smash Bros." is when something appears in something, which to some is the first time they can see it because their original work was never released where they are from. Early-Bird Cameo is when this technically is their first appearance, as it appears before their actual work is out..
01:58:46 AM Oct 31st 2014
Removed from the YMMV page:

  • Medal of Dishonor:
    • During Brawl, much of the fanbase considered using Golden Hammers on the Challenge squares taboo because it labels players as being to lazy/bad at the game to complete it - it didn't help that the game marked which squares you'd hammered.
    • Still exists in U/3DS' Challenges, but there are some that people won't admonish you for hammering, namely the ones that require collecting Outfits, Headgear, Custom Moves and Smash Run Powers due to the mechanics involved.

First, this isn't a YMMV trope. Second, these aren't examples of the trope in question, the mark on the hammered challenge isn't a reward at all. The Even Evil Has Standards pothole is a stretch too. They feel like they could be examples of something, though, but I don't know what. All I can think of is Easy-Mode Mockery, but that's definitely wrong.
08:51:40 AM Oct 29th 2014
edited by
Is the Filler entry really necessary? It doesn't even apply to filler in the game itself, but to filler in updates to the website. Aside from that, it just seems whiny.
08:52:11 AM Oct 31st 2014
Went ahead and removed it. Any objections?
06:37:09 PM Oct 23rd 2014
For the Characters page, should we include their "aliases" at all? And if we keep them, should we have them as a header (i.e. "Mega Man joins the battle!") or as a subtitle under the picture, like they are now?
02:39:49 PM Oct 23rd 2014
This example was recently removed:

  • Would Hurt a Child: With fighters including the likes of Ness, Lucas, and Toon Link, this trope is in full effect.

04:10:01 PM Oct 23rd 2014
When the child is beating you with a sword or blasting you with psychic powers, I think that's a bit different than the "completely defenseless" aspect that the trope is based on.
06:00:43 PM Oct 23rd 2014
In this case, the examples section to Would Hurt a Child needs a clean-up.
02:24:09 PM Oct 8th 2014
Since I forgot to ask about adding my placement of unlocking methods yesterday, I wanted to see if it was okay to change the caption under the 3DS/U logo to "Settle it in Smash!" since the tagline seems more relevant then a 15 year old commercial, even if it was really funny. :p

(On the note of my attempted changes, I actually already unlocked every character except Bowser Jr. at the time (I got him later that night), I just thought it would have been convenient for anyone who hadn't got them yet. I like that they were still bolded though to make it easier to see)
08:58:44 AM Oct 29th 2014
Well, after three weeks, I don't know if you or anyone else still cares about this, but I like your suggestion. It's straight to the point and doesn't require knowledge of a 15 year old commercial.
08:15:12 AM Sep 26th 2014
edited by
  • Badass Adorable: Let's see...Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Marth, Pit, Meta Knight, Ike, Peach, Yoshi, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, Lucario, Ness, Toon Link, R.O.B., Jigglypuff, Lucas, Pichu, Rosalina & Luma, Palutena, Robin, Villager, Shulk, Dark Pit, Lucina and Mega Man. Though it often depends on opinion, this is what most people agree on.

Okay, this is seriously too long a list. And severe decay, as many of these characters aren't adorable so much as "attractive." Seriously, Mario would be a closer fit for Badass Adorable than say, any of the swordsmen characters. Badass Adorable is "Something that looks delicate or helpless is anything but." The description talks about them seeming vulnerable, but still being very tough. At least half this list has to go.

And it's entirely a Zero-Context Example.
08:29:33 AM Sep 26th 2014
edited by
So here are some examples I whipped up:

  • Badass Adorable: Every character in the game is a skilled fighter, but many of them are also portrayed as adorable as well:
    • Kirby is a pink ball with Blush Stickers and in cutscenes is one of the biggest badasses.
    • Most Pokemon qualify for this as well:
      • Pikachu is just as cute as ever, but still shown as a badass in cutscenes and combat.
      • Pichu is even more of a Ridiculously Cute Critter, though it's not as much of a threat in gameplay, it can still kick all kinds of ass.
      • Squirtle, being a fully unevolved Pokemon is incredibly cute, but probably Pokemon Trainer's best Pokemon.
      • Jigglypuff is a pink floating balloon, but has one of the most deadly single attacks in the series.
    • Ness and Lucas from Earthbound, thanks largely to the series' distinctive art style and their characterization in Subspace Emissary.
    • Pit is a slightly Super-Deformed angel in a toga, but fights using a bow that turns into swords and magic rings.
    • Yoshi, with its Pokémon Speak and exaggerated motions (it's second jump is trying to run on air!) seems like it'd be harmless, but it's anything but.
    • Toon Link is a cartoony swordsman, but just as good at fighting as his more realistic counterpart. His taunts and win poses emphasize his lighter side, though (how many fighters wave around a conductors baton?).
    • The Villager from Animal Crossing is a bit stumpy, always smiling, fights with household implements, and kicks ass.

I feel like Rosalina & Luma and maybe Mega Man might count, but I'm not familiar enough with them to be sure.
11:37:34 AM Sep 26th 2014
I agree, this fits much better than the previous examples. I believe Rosalina & Luma and Mega Man count as well: Rosalina due to her elegant and soft-spoken nature for the adorable side and her ability to kick ass for the badass side, Luma because he's a small, adorable star-like creature, and Mega Man thanks to his Super-Deformed design.
11:51:56 AM Sep 26th 2014
Yeah, Luma feels like it'd count on its own, but Rosalina, I'm not sure. She strikes me as more of a Lady of War than "Adorable." But again, I've never played a game with her so I'm not sure. Here's my writeup for Mega Man.

  • Mega Man. Classic series Mega Man has always had the appearance and personality of a pre-teen boy, which is only exacerbated by his Super-Deformed styling. And yet, he's on some levels a more dangerous fighter than in his own series.
07:00:03 PM Sep 26th 2014
edited by
This being a character trope, wouldn't it be more appropriate to put it in the character pages? I bet some of them already have it.
01:49:32 AM Sep 27th 2014
"It" no, since this trope entry is lumping several different characters together, but if you can split it up between characters each split-off entry can be put in the respective character's trope list.
02:44:51 PM Sep 27th 2014
The sheer number of characters that it applies to makes me feel like an example on the main page is pretty reasonable. It's a recurring theme in the game, not just an element that happens to show up in a few characters, you know?
06:03:14 AM Sep 29th 2014
I'm going to readd the ones I have here.
08:56:59 PM Sep 11th 2014
Okay, why are spoilers for the fourth game going to be left unmarked on the main page before the games are even officially out? That seems a little extreme. I admit it's probably going to be pretty hard to avoid the spoilers elsewhere anyway, but still.
08:57:25 AM Jul 14th 2014
The Rayman trophy is noteworthy, but should we really include it in the game list, since it's only a trophy?
03:40:49 PM Aug 8th 2014
That's something I was wondering. I'm pretty sure I was the one who originally put in the list of non-character-related games and I chose not to put in games that only contributed trophies/stickers since they weren't "gameplay elements".
03:10:32 AM Aug 9th 2014
Well, the folder is "features stages, items" so yeah seems like it belongs.
08:28:34 PM Aug 10th 2014
edited by
But do non-gameplay items belong? It was revealed as a collectible trophy, not an Assist Trophy.
12:43:28 AM Aug 11th 2014
I think so. Nothing in the description of the folder contradicts it, at least.
12:22:12 PM Aug 29th 2014
edited by
Then in that case, all the games that have trophies should be listed. And then we might as well add all the Brawl stickers too. I just went ahead and added an "including" to the folder heading, indicating that the list doesn't need to be exhaustive.
12:39:30 PM Jun 27th 2014
It looks like the folders on this page broke. It might need to be split up.
01:06:49 PM Jun 29th 2014
Definitely feels like there should be individual pages for each game in the series again.
01:23:36 PM Jun 29th 2014
edited by
Never mind, fixed it by splitting the main folder of tropes into multiple folders. Should've been done sooner.
12:43:53 AM Jun 27th 2014
  • Awesome, but Impractical: A story mode like The Subspace Emissary was a really great idea on paper. Development wise though, it was simply an infeasible mess, as it was essentially an entirely separate game being developed alongside a full fledged fighting game. The SSE and its cutscenes took up over half of Brawl's disc space, and took up a majority of Brawl's development (and even then the SSE couldn't be finished properly, with the last quarter of it being a complete rehashing in the Great Maze). The SSE was responsible for Brawl's infamous significant delays, and is the culprit behind much of the planned content being cut, most of the other 1P modes being neutered, and the general lack of polish in all areas of Brawl. It is also the reason why Brawl was on a dual-layered disc (which prevented many players' Wiis from being able to read Brawl). For a sideshow act no one bought the game for, such a massive story wasn't worth it (which is exasperated farther by the SSE's lukewarm reception in general and the cutscenes being uploaded on youtube for people to watch without playing it anyway). Sakurai recognised the impractically of developing such a massive story with cutscenes, and as such, decided to cut it altogether in Smash 4.

This looks like it has a lot of natter and speculation. Should it be removed?
07:24:55 AM Jun 27th 2014
Yes, because it doesn't fit the trope at all.
11:40:28 PM Nov 26th 2014
However what it currently says in the opener, that Sakurai removed the story mode because "it was gimmicky" is untrue. He said he removed it to punish people for posting youtube videos of smash bros cutscenes. "NO CUTSCENES FOR YOU" basically.
11:01:51 AM Jun 23rd 2014
Under Cast Herd, case changed this:

unexpected characters (Wario, Sonic and Snake)

to this:

third-party characters (Wario, Sonic and Snake)

I don't understand what he's getting at with Wario here.
11:12:38 AM Jun 23rd 2014
Excellent question. I changed it completely.
11:50:04 AM Jun 23rd 2014
edited by
It's still nagging at my curiosity what he meant though. Did he simply not know what Kayfabe means? Was it Fanon that crept into what he believed were facts?
04:17:46 PM Jun 11th 2014
Would Reggie's throwdown with Iwata in the Mii Fighter debut trailer count as an Ascended Meme?
01:26:07 PM Dec 29th 2013
It's become clear that the folder indexing where the various characters are drawn from needs some fine-tuning. Especially since I did the edit that started listing which specific characters came from which game, and admittedly wasn't always consistent in listing characters for a specific game vs. the franchise as a whole. I'm just going to go down the list and comment on ones I know have been disputed, as well as ones I have questions on:

  • Pit - Should we really specify his WiiU/3DS design as "from" Uprising? Because it actually originated in Brawl.
  • Sheik - I'd say list Sheik as specifically from Ocarina, because that's the only time she (is that the right pronoun for a Sweet Polly Oliver persona?) showed up in Zelda canon. We can add a note to Twilight Princess that Brawl's TP redesigns affected her too, even if she wasn't actually in that game.
  • Zero Suit Samus - I'd say this version of the character is specifically taken from Zero Mission. The Zero Suit has made brief appearances elsewhere; but it debuted in Zero Mission, takes its name from Zero Mission, and has its biggest playable appearance in Zero Mission. In any case, that was the only game the Brawl version was based on, and she hasn't been announced for WiiU/3DS yet so we don't know how later appearances might affect her.
  • Pokémon characters - The characters here are listed by debut game when I've generally not gone strictly by debuts. Just pointing out the discrepancy in case we want to change it.
  • Wolf - While he debuted in 64, he's been in most games since so I consider him part of the Star Fox core cast and would list him as a character from the franchise instead of any specific game.
  • Rosalina - I'd list her as specific to Mario Galaxy. She has made some other appearances, but I'm not sure I'd count Mario Kart and her 3D World appearance is still pretty overshadowed by Galaxy. Things may change by Smash 5, but I'm not ready to call her part of Mario's core cast yet.
02:10:24 PM Dec 29th 2013
I think we should only use specific games for what I like to call fluid cast games (i.e. they change characters every time). So that would be Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mother. Then in the contains content from section we put the influences.

So on the character list it would be

And below it

07:19:57 PM Jan 2nd 2014
Is Pokemon really "fluid cast"? I mean, if I wanted a Pikachu in any particular game, I could get one somehow. The franchise is really a good example of how messy this whole classification thing can get. I mean, take the Pokemon Trainer. His design and Pokemon are taken from FireRed/LeafGreen specifically, but Brawl takes pains to say that he's a stand-in for any and every other game's Player Character, so (assuming we're keeping the current idea instead of the one you suggested) should he be listed as a franchise character or FRLG specific?
08:38:31 AM Jan 13th 2014
I guess whats worth asking is what game is the character meant to represent. IMO Link represents The Legend of Zelda in general so his name is listed there, then Ocarina and TP are listed for where specifically his design is taken from. Sheik, in so far as s/he is tied to Zelda, is the same. Ganondorf debuted in Ocarina but has since become a mainstay character that has had several redesigns. Toon Link represents the Wind Waker specifically and has had no major redesigns since, So his name is listed by his debut appearance.

Rosalina is a tougher case since she debuted in Galaxy and seems to represent the Galaxy duology. However she's also the closest to mainstay Mario character besides the Bros. Peach and Toad by being playable not just in spinoffs (like Wario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Waluigi, Daisy etc.) but by being a standalone playable character in a main series platformer 3D world.

Im fine with the Pokemon by debut game since that's the generation they represent regardless of their availability.
06:57:20 AM Feb 25th 2014
edited by
Samus in 64 and Melee is based off of Super Metroid specifically - look at the pattern of the black grooves and that there are no green glowing accents

Samus is Brawl is based off of Metroid Zero Mission - look at the pattern of the grooves and the glowing green accents - this also makes her match Zero Suit Samus who's look was introduced/codified in the game and was the most recent release at the time of Brawl. She has nothing in common with Prime Samus note the difference in the black groove pattern particularly on the legs, the lack of the circular notch in the shoulders, the different design of the red breast plate, the difference in size of the glowing green parts

Samus is 4 is from Other M, obviously and by Word of God
11:44:00 PM Dec 5th 2013
Should we make character pages for Assist Trophies? I know that they never really appear outside of matches and most of their characterization is found solely on their trophies, but one could argue the same for some Melee fighters, and we already have pages for Subspace Emissary bosses.

Plus, Assist Trophy information could help introduce tropers to Nintendo's more obscure, fun franchises.
03:29:15 PM Sep 28th 2013
edited by
I think it's high time the page image was changed, because Brawl was released almost 6 years ago. Perhaps the "unified" logo for the next games should be used?
10:11:44 PM Sep 14th 2012
How would people feel about editing the character pages to have infoboxes like the Playstation All-Stars character page has? It'd look something like this:

08:36:22 PM Nov 17th 2012
I certainly would approve.
02:38:00 PM Jun 13th 2013
I do not really see a point to it.
04:14:54 PM Jun 13th 2013
I think it'd look really polished. Approve.
01:33:38 AM Jun 22nd 2013
With some characters, like Pokemon Trainer, there'll be fights over him whether he's actually Red or not. So no, it won't help. Let's avoid it.
03:45:09 AM Oct 23rd 2011
I'd like to know what people think of Brawl in relation to Adaptation Distillation, Ultimate Universe and Broad Strokes. Brawl's story tends to manage to get across the general idea and arc of characters in simple, wordless cutscenes - Lucas growing from a wimp to a badass, Snake being an Ineffectual Loner, Red wanting to Catch 'Em All - but the problem for me is that none of the tropes quite manage to fit. What do you guys think?
07:38:12 AM Oct 19th 2011
Moderator speaking:

The sentence below has been removed and replaced a couple of times. Please discuss the relevance of the sentence here rather than engaging in an Edit War that may gain the participants a suspension of editing privileges.

Thank you.

See also Super Smash Flash, a series of flash games meant to emulate Super Smash Bros. that is really Growing the Beard, and add Tropes to that page as well.
09:50:35 AM Oct 19th 2011
edited by AMNK
I object it's inclusion, because it wasn't done by Nintendo, nor it's a Nintendo-official Flash game, so it's like the inclusion of a related Fan Fic into the source work article. For me, it has no relevance.
11:06:49 AM Oct 19th 2011
I agree with the above. Not relevant to the work.
07:11:00 AM Jul 21st 2011
The Critical Existence Failure description is totally wrong. Nothing sudden happens to you once you hit 100% damage - you receive more knockback gradually as your damage goes up.
07:29:51 AM Jul 21st 2011
You're absolutely right. Delete it - orrrrr change it completely; I think "Stamina-Mode" fits the trope, but I'm not really sure.
10:51:26 AM May 9th 2011
RE: Cut The namespace for videogames is Video Games/ Not Games.
01:50:37 PM May 9th 2011
Are you sure? Because the Game/ entries are the ones which look different in the edit lists, (read: different color, a joystick icon...) not the Videogame or Video Games ones, unless there was some discussion somewhere in the forum and I haven't noticed it...
03:12:41 AM May 10th 2011
Nope, decided in the forum. We changed it to avoid confusion with Tabletop Games
05:38:49 AM May 11th 2011
Where's the link of the discussion? Someone should have posted that as a headline at the bar on the left!
07:58:59 PM May 1st 2011
edited by Amagicalbadger
Could we have separate pages for the different games? It's needlessly wordy/tedious to specify the game of the example for every trope, and sometimes tropers just don't specify at all.. (Example: "In Brawl...", "Characters have great costumes this time around.") Also, the Subspace Emissary section, which only applies to Brawl, already has a big portion that it might as well be on a different page. I think the three games have enough material to justify having their own space. I suggest that we have:

-Main page



-Brawl (Space for Subspace.)

-Game Modifications (By the time the Project:M is released, there will be a lot to say about it, and it's too different from Brawl (think 70% Melee, 10% 64, and 20% original material) to be in the Brawl folder. The other Brawl mods might as well go here too.

09:52:24 AM Oct 19th 2011
edited by AMNK
Then do it. The character sheets are in place.

VideoGame.Super Smash Bros 64
VideoGame.Super Smash Bros Melee
VideoGame.Super Smash Bros Brawl

Perhaps with several people helping?
03:18:08 PM Dec 21st 2011
edited by Noah1
How about soft-splitting the examples instead of completely splitting the page? After that, it will be easier to see if separation is necessary.
01:15:06 PM Sep 28th 2012
Maybe we should start by making Franchise.Super Smash Bros?
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