Main Unintentionally Unsympathetic Discussion

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ANewMan
Topic
03:53:17 PM May 8th 2016
edited by ANewMan

I cut most of this entry down because, as I said, it goes far beyond the point of the trope (explaining why Starlight's motivations for being Driven to Villainy weren't as sympathetic as the writers intended) and into Complaining About A Redemption You Don't Like. Starlights actions are grossly exaggerated in order to make her out to be a Complete Monster who crossed the Moral Event Horizon yet got off easy for it (Her cult town was far from "a brutal dictatorship": aside from the removal of cutie marks and individuality in order to make ponies better harmonize as a friendly community, it was all about a lack of brutality, and none of the apocalyptic scenarios of alternate timelines she indirectly caused were intended by her, so I don't see why this is something she supposedly can't come back from), the entry indicates that she showed no remorse for her crimes and only made a Heel–Face Turn out of selfishness and convenience for her (which, if you watch the episode, is clearly not true), compared her unfavorably to another character with a similar story and stated opinion on that character's story as though they were fact (I personally found Moondancer a good contender for this trope myself), and went on to complain about her promotion to Sixth Ranger, which was happening whether fans liked it or not.
NNinja
Topic
04:14:14 AM Apr 19th 2016
  • In Death Battle, "Yang Xiao Long vs. Tifa Lockhart", more than a few people have pointed out that despite the episode attempting to depict Yang as the more heroic of the two, it was Yang who started the whole fight by walking into Tifa's bar and beating up the doorman for essentially just doing his job, smashing him through the door and refusing to comply when Tifa asked her to leave the premises. It really leaves a poor taste in some people's mouths, especially seeing as Yang ends up brutally murdering Tifa in the end without a hint of remorse and over an incident that was entirely her own fault. She really comes across as a particularly nasty Sociopathic Hero instead of her usual Nice Girl self and many RWBY fans dislike the depiction.
Since when Death Battle tries to present ANY side as good or bad? This is Let's You and Him Fight: the series, and whatever little plot is there only serves as Excuse Plot to make battle happen. You can't had deadly duel between two good guys, without making one of them look bad.
Larkmarn
08:48:56 AM Apr 19th 2016
A-yup. The controversy may be worth noting somewhere, but not here.
NNinja
Topic
01:57:24 PM Mar 5th 2016
edited by NNinja
  • Iris in The Flash (2014) is put on a pedestal by everyone who knows her, especially Barry. The problem is that they really shouldn't. Even after Barry reveals his feelings for her, and learns they are mutual, she refuses to dump her current boyfriend, Eddie. While this is not bad in itself, she maintains this even after learning she and Barry are destined to be Happily Married. She and Eddie decide Screw Destiny in a manner that makes it seem she's more interested in her happiness than Barry's. She also chewed everyone out for not telling her Barry is the Flash in a very entitled way, despite the fact that she really wouldn't have been that helpful. Finally, she discovers from the mother she thought was dead that she has a brother. Iris angrily tells her to never speak to her again. Her mother is dying and is desperate to reconcile and Iris is basically stabbing her in the heart for something she was going to talk to her about anyway, yet treating it like a betrayal. And despite being angry about not learning Barry is the Flash, she chooses not to tell them what she learned until Christmas. Her response to Cold's Freudian Excuse about a rough childhood, namely everyone in the room had a rough childhood and should get over it, is hollow when you remember that, aside from thinking her mom was dead, she had the most normal childhood of all the people in the room.
This entry either twists or demonises most of the facts that are involved. Yes, Iris did realise that Barry's feelings for her are mutual, but she understood that in a timeline that Barry canceled with time travel. When in the new timeline Barry tried to talk about it, from her perspective it looked Barry was hitting on her out of nowhere knowing perfectly well that she has a boyfriend. The entry about destiny is a little more valid, but aside from the fact that the newspaper didn't tell they will be happy, only that they will be married, the entry says that she's unsympathetic for not chosing Barry over Eddie just because some newspaper from the future told her to. When she learned about Barry being Flash, she did not say that she could be usefull, but that keeping her in dark did not keep her safe at all, on the contrary, it made her unprepared for any potential threats. Episode 3 od season 2 proved she was right, as knowing Barry is the Flash saved her life. When she was talking with Captain Cold she wasn't just talking about herself, but also about Barry whose mmother have been murderded and and father was wrongly accused for that murder, which wasn't exacly easy childhood, and that's ignoring the fact that losing mother isn't exacly nice so she's still right. The only valid part of this entry seemes to be about reuniting with her mother.
EMY3K
Topic
08:16:02 AM Aug 5th 2015
  • In a similar vein there's River Song who was willing to destroy time itself by breaking a fixed point to save the Doctor's life because as she put it the Doctor was worth more to her than all of the universe. Rather than coming off as romantic it instead wouldn't be out of place as a villain's motive rant. Made worse in that while she does give in and allow events to play out it's only because the Doctor told her that he was faking his death, not that she can't put the universe over his own safety.

I have a question about this example. I completely understand why someone would feel that River is this trope. However, I feel as though this is being described out of context. It's not as though she suddenly went crazy and decided to end reality. She was literally kidnapped and had the bulk of her agency taken away in order to murder the Doctor. There was no way to stop that. In fact, trying to stop it was what nearly destroyed time. The other thing to keep in mind is that the River in the suit is still relatively young in the timeline. She hasn't gone through Character Development yet.
ShorinBJ
Topic
05:02:45 PM Jul 9th 2015
edited by ShorinBJ
I think all the examples should be scrapped and the page turned into a simple definition page. It's just an invitation to rant, and YMMV on any of the examples.

Meanwhile, I edited the The House of Night example. Zoey doesn't take issue with her sister having sex or her brother playing violent video games; the problem was that they put on a front of being wholesome, obedient Christian children for the benefit of their mother and stepfather and got treated like they were actually that, while Zoey showed outward signs of having a mind of her own and got labeled the bad seed.
theredlongitude
Topic
10:45:36 PM Apr 23rd 2015
Does anyone really think that Alex from A Clockwork Orange was supposed to be sympathetic? In what universe?
willofone
10:53:26 AM May 15th 2015
if you read the book it will show what the autor intended to say about the situation
EMY3K
Topic
07:36:55 AM Sep 1st 2014
edited by 24.126.51.214
  • Belle in Beauty and the Beast was supposed to be depicted as someone oppressed by her village due to her father as well as her love of books, as well as the epitome of internal beauty. However, she spent the majority of her lyrics in the opening song insulting her fellow villagers, and during the wedding the way she got Gaston out made it seem as though she was deliberately trying to trick Gaston into falling into a mudpool, and then took amusement at his humiliation (which in a way made her out to be as big of a jerk as Gaston), as well as disobeying her stipulation of staying away from the West Wing despite the Beast explicitly telling her it was a forbidden area, nearly destroyed Beast's literal lifeline, explicitly broke the agreement she made with the Beast and nearly got herself and him killed by wolves, and then effectively foolishly exposing the Beast to a crowd of villagers who were obviously congregated into a mob to take Maurice to the happy farm, thus endangering him and his servants. It also doesn't help that her foils, the Bimbettes, actually came closer to actual internal beauty from their actions in the limited screentime they had than Belle did in the entirety of her film.
    • Apparently, the musical writers noticed that how Belle handled Gaston's proposal in the film made her look very bad, considering that they instead had Belle politely and timidly refuse Gaston's hand in marriage after the latter sung a self-praising song about himself aptly called "Me."

One point at a time:

1). What Belle was saying in the song was that she felt frustrated that no one in the village (except the librarian) understood her. Considering that they were all willing to stand behind Gaston when he tried to force her hand in marriage by committing her father to the asylum, it's a fair point.

2.). When she got Gaston out, he had her against the door and was trying to kiss her and get her to marry him after she had clearly said that she wasn't interested. Considering the situation, she's entitled to enjoy seeing him in the mud.

3.). Yes, exposing the Beast to the mob was stupidly impulsive. However, at the time, she was trying to save her father from the asylum and herself from a forced marriage. That's not unsympathetic at all.
MagBas
08:44:57 AM Sep 1st 2014
This is an Audience Reaction. A character sympathetic to a person is not necessarily sympathetic to other.
emeriin
08:46:44 AM Sep 1st 2014
The person who added this was banned though. And acting like Belle was the bad guy to Gaston is just Victim Blaming.
Silverblade2
Topic
08:26:52 AM Jun 9th 2014
So Severus Snape from Harry Potter is both in Unintentionally Sympathetic and Unintentionally Unsympathetic ? Well one should makes your mind. Personnally I do not think the narrative was tryng to excuse his jerkass behavior toward Harry. As for James and Lily's death, he's clearly The Atoner.
Tarvok
Topic
08:52:30 AM Jan 16th 2014
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't the the Star Trek: Insurrection example holds up. Picard wasn't protecting the Baku against an insidious Federation plot to replace them with Federation colonists. The plan was to totally remove the planet's "magic radiation junk" or whatever it was and move it elsewhere, after which it would *hopefully* continue to work as it did in its current configuration.

A different Star Trek captain might have pointed out that there is no guarantee the "stuff" will still work once it is disturbed, and it would probably be a much better idea to leave it as it is, assign a science team to study the phenomenon, establish a medical facility at some point sufficiently distant from the Baku to avoid disrupting their lifestyle, and hopefully replicate the effect elsewhere at some point... NOT rip it to shreds in the hopes that it will magically still work under completely different circumstances.
pimpdaddy
Topic
08:53:27 PM Jan 18th 2011
Is there any difference between this and Designated Hero and Designated Hero Syndrome
DrakeClawfang
09:35:12 AM Jan 16th 2014
Yes. Designated Hero refers to a character who is treated as a hero but does not act like one. This trope is for any character, hero or not, that is intended to be sympathetic but comes off as not.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.UnintentionallyUnsympathetic