Main Unintentionally Unsympathetic Discussion

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08:16:02 AM Aug 5th 2015
  • In a similar vein there's River Song who was willing to destroy time itself by breaking a fixed point to save the Doctor's life because as she put it the Doctor was worth more to her than all of the universe. Rather than coming off as romantic it instead wouldn't be out of place as a villain's motive rant. Made worse in that while she does give in and allow events to play out it's only because the Doctor told her that he was faking his death, not that she can't put the universe over his own safety.

I have a question about this example. I completely understand why someone would feel that River is this trope. However, I feel as though this is being described out of context. It's not as though she suddenly went crazy and decided to end reality. She was literally kidnapped and had the bulk of her agency taken away in order to murder the Doctor. There was no way to stop that. In fact, trying to stop it was what nearly destroyed time. The other thing to keep in mind is that the River in the suit is still relatively young in the timeline. She hasn't gone through Character Development yet.
05:02:45 PM Jul 9th 2015
edited by ShorinBJ
I think all the examples should be scrapped and the page turned into a simple definition page. It's just an invitation to rant, and YMMV on any of the examples.

Meanwhile, I edited the The House of Night example. Zoey doesn't take issue with her sister having sex or her brother playing violent video games; the problem was that they put on a front of being wholesome, obedient Christian children for the benefit of their mother and stepfather and got treated like they were actually that, while Zoey showed outward signs of having a mind of her own and got labeled the bad seed.
10:45:36 PM Apr 23rd 2015
Does anyone really think that Alex from A Clockwork Orange was supposed to be sympathetic? In what universe?
10:53:26 AM May 15th 2015
if you read the book it will show what the autor intended to say about the situation
07:36:55 AM Sep 1st 2014
edited by
  • Belle in Beauty and the Beast was supposed to be depicted as someone oppressed by her village due to her father as well as her love of books, as well as the epitome of internal beauty. However, she spent the majority of her lyrics in the opening song insulting her fellow villagers, and during the wedding the way she got Gaston out made it seem as though she was deliberately trying to trick Gaston into falling into a mudpool, and then took amusement at his humiliation (which in a way made her out to be as big of a jerk as Gaston), as well as disobeying her stipulation of staying away from the West Wing despite the Beast explicitly telling her it was a forbidden area, nearly destroyed Beast's literal lifeline, explicitly broke the agreement she made with the Beast and nearly got herself and him killed by wolves, and then effectively foolishly exposing the Beast to a crowd of villagers who were obviously congregated into a mob to take Maurice to the happy farm, thus endangering him and his servants. It also doesn't help that her foils, the Bimbettes, actually came closer to actual internal beauty from their actions in the limited screentime they had than Belle did in the entirety of her film.
    • Apparently, the musical writers noticed that how Belle handled Gaston's proposal in the film made her look very bad, considering that they instead had Belle politely and timidly refuse Gaston's hand in marriage after the latter sung a self-praising song about himself aptly called "Me."

One point at a time:

1). What Belle was saying in the song was that she felt frustrated that no one in the village (except the librarian) understood her. Considering that they were all willing to stand behind Gaston when he tried to force her hand in marriage by committing her father to the asylum, it's a fair point.

2.). When she got Gaston out, he had her against the door and was trying to kiss her and get her to marry him after she had clearly said that she wasn't interested. Considering the situation, she's entitled to enjoy seeing him in the mud.

3.). Yes, exposing the Beast to the mob was stupidly impulsive. However, at the time, she was trying to save her father from the asylum and herself from a forced marriage. That's not unsympathetic at all.
08:44:57 AM Sep 1st 2014
This is an Audience Reaction. A character sympathetic to a person is not necessarily sympathetic to other.
08:46:44 AM Sep 1st 2014
The person who added this was banned though. And acting like Belle was the bad guy to Gaston is just Victim Blaming.
08:26:52 AM Jun 9th 2014
So Severus Snape from Harry Potter is both in Unintentionally Sympathetic and Unintentionally Unsympathetic ? Well one should makes your mind. Personnally I do not think the narrative was tryng to excuse his jerkass behavior toward Harry. As for James and Lily's death, he's clearly The Atoner.
08:52:30 AM Jan 16th 2014
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't the the Star Trek: Insurrection example holds up. Picard wasn't protecting the Baku against an insidious Federation plot to replace them with Federation colonists. The plan was to totally remove the planet's "magic radiation junk" or whatever it was and move it elsewhere, after which it would *hopefully* continue to work as it did in its current configuration.

A different Star Trek captain might have pointed out that there is no guarantee the "stuff" will still work once it is disturbed, and it would probably be a much better idea to leave it as it is, assign a science team to study the phenomenon, establish a medical facility at some point sufficiently distant from the Baku to avoid disrupting their lifestyle, and hopefully replicate the effect elsewhere at some point... NOT rip it to shreds in the hopes that it will magically still work under completely different circumstances.
08:53:27 PM Jan 18th 2011
Is there any difference between this and Designated Hero and Designated Hero Syndrome
09:35:12 AM Jan 16th 2014
Yes. Designated Hero refers to a character who is treated as a hero but does not act like one. This trope is for any character, hero or not, that is intended to be sympathetic but comes off as not.
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