Klingon Scientists Get No Respect
Kurak was a warp field specialist on the Klingon homeworld. I don't think Klingons regard scientists very highly... she always seemed a little defensive.
The people of the Planet of Hats
can adopt any of a thousand different hats as the one that their society values above all others. However, someone has to put on the "hat-maker" hat for the rest of the society to be able to wear their chosen hat. After all, Klingon warriors
will need scientists to design their weapons and starships. Yet, despite making the Planet of Hats
possible, the Klingon scientists get no respect because they aren't on the battlefield swinging a bat'leth.
It's not just a case of where someone takes on a thankless job because Someone Has to Do It
, this trope is about culture. The Klingon Scientist is ostracized
for having talents outside of what is approved by the culture regardless
of them enabling their culture to function
how they want it to in the first place. To further rub in the injustice, the Klingon Scientist probably neither believes My Species Doth Protest Too Much
nor yearns to be a Cultural Rebel
. They may genuinely buy into their culture's values and knowingly choose the thankless job to support their people. That said, the scorn and alienation they experience no doubt tinge their world view into Jade-Colored Glasses
Despite the name, this trope can be expressed a lot of ways: a warrior culture
may disdain the blacksmith who makes their weapons, a society of pure thinkers
may consider all engineers menial laborers putting their high thoughts to work, while a people of artists could see those who produce their art materials as unskilled proles (and all of the above can even be reversed!). If this trope is part of An Aesop
, then Vetinari Job Security
will kick in when the oppressed Hat-Maker takes a holiday.
Compare to Hard on Soft Science
, where certain fields of study are mocked by more "serious" areas that may very well be connected or derived from them.
No Real Life Examples, Please!
Since this trope deals heavily with racial and cultural stereotypes, examples from real-world countries and cultures would be loaded with Unfortunate Implications
. Suffice it to say that every
society has had at least one job that is looked down upon by the culture at large while still being entirely necessary for that society to function.
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Anime and Manga
- The head of the combined Demon army in Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, the Demon Queen, is an excellent strategist and a master of logistics. Unfortunately for her, the Demon tribes are mostly proud warrior races and she's thought of as one of the weakest Demon Kings ever. Even though she did acquire the job in the traditional manner.
- The fourth squad of soul-reapers in Bleach are in some ways the most essential, since they heal the wounds the other soul-reapers incur through constant fighting. But because they are usually not very skilled at combat, other squads tend to pick on them. This trend is averted with their Captain, who can make even squad 11 settle down just by giving them a harsh glare. Turns out that she was the original Kenpachi, meaning she was universally recognized as the most dangerous Shinigami in existence.
- Averted in Super Dimension Fortress Macross: the Zentraedi are a Proud Warrior Race to the point that warfare is literally the only thing they ever do, so one would think that any non-fighter among them would get this by default. Nonetheless, they seem to hold their noncombatant strategists in high regard, and even the highest-ranking commanders are usually shown listening intently to what their adviser has to say.
- In Racer and the Geek, ponies who use guns without being part of any official state group (military or police) are viewed by the general public with roughly the same distaste as serial killers. Some relate them to foal killers, regarded as going over the line even by the law, as Telny demonstrates when Lightning Dust gets the business end of an assault rifle shoved in her face for making that accusationnote .
- Eugenesis gives us a brief glimpse of a Decepticon's idea of a medical experimentation, where the "subject" is nailed to the operating table and drugged out of their mind beforehand. Even the most thuggish Decepticons are horrified by this twenty years on, so it's no wonder their scientists aren't respected. What makes it worse is that Sygnet, one of the higher profile Decepticon scientists still alive, joined to 'cons to get respect.
- Averted with the Nephilim/Hell Knights in Sonic X: Dark Chaos. Their culture is based on strict and absolute egalitarianism, and many Nephilim willingly serve in non-combat roles without stigma. All of them - including Astorath - know that their great campaigns of slaughter wouldn't be possible without the sacrifices of their scientist brothers.
- Inverted by the Aiel in Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series. They are a warrior society, with their blacksmiths being the people who make their society work. Instead of being ridiculed, the blacksmiths are held in high regard and are protected in battle. When raiding other Aiel septs, harming a blacksmith is unheard of and brings great 'toh' upon yourself. Blacksmiths are also the last to pick up arms in battle with outsiders even though they know how to fight.
- The Kzinti in Larry Niven's Known Space are a species of felinoid who are NOT naturally gregarious, they can only remain banded together in a civilized state by being obsessed with status and rank (and frequent duels to the death). The shlubs who do whatever work can't be done by slave races are at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. Telepaths are an odd case. On one hand, they are as remote from the perfect warrior image as possible: weak, neurotic, with matted fur. On the other hand, everybody recognizes their high value for the society. In the end they are tolerated, they get away with behaviour that would cost another Kzin his life (or at least his ears), but they are not promoted to higher positions.
- Low-status Kzinti don't even have names, they're instead referred to by their job title, rank, or MOS. Higher-caste Kzin get a partial name ("Chuft-Captain"), and actual nobility get the honor of having a name that's exclusively theirs with no reference to their job. No explicit word on how they distinguish between the guys on different shifts/watches who perform the same job. Oddly enough, the Patriarch of Kzin is always called that or "The Patriarch", which would seem to be a rank/job title.
- This trope raises its head several times in the Star Trek: Typhon Pact series. Most notably, the Talarian genders have very different social roles, and are liable to underplay the importance of the other gender's work. Given that politics and leadership is a male role, this is most notable and extreme when the male government neglects their people's feminine sphere, leading to unrest in one novella. The Gorn seem to have shades of the same problem; emphasizing the warrior component of their culture and disregarding the equally important non-military aspects. In their case, rather than a gender division it's a matter of caste; the Technologist caste appears to be looked down on by the warriors. As an interesting extension of the idea, the Political caste seems to have such fear of the warriors' tendency to promote themselves above other Gorn that they've deliberately undercut their power by giving them only a single breeding world.
- This is actually subverted in John M Ford's pre-TNG Star Trek novel The Final Reflection; the main character, a Klingon captain called Krenn, obviously respects his scientist first officer and describes Sciences as "an honourable career" to a young Spock while on a diplomatic mission to Earth. But then, Original Series Klingons were never the rather one-note Proud Warrior Race of some later stories, being more of a hostile authoritarian culture somewhat resembling the old USSR — and the USSR had its own successes in science.
- Also subverted in the Day of Honour novel Treaty's Law. A farming planet was disputed between Klingon and human colonists. As part of the Organian Peace Treaty, it was agreed that the two groups would compete and whoever got the best harvest would win the planet. The humans were complacent because of this trope, assuming war-obsessed Klingons would be poor farmers, but it turns out that farmers are actually highly respected in Klingon society and they ended up winning.
- In Strikebreaker, an Isaac Asimov short story, the man in charge of waste disposal is treated as a pariah, as is his family. How vital he is becomes obvious when he goes on strike demanding to be accepted as a part of normal society.
- In another of Asimov's works, Robots and Empire, it is mentioned that the Spacer society treats surgeons that way. The Spacers are proud of their life expectancy, which can be up to four centuries, but tolerate absolutely no reminder that their bodies can require any maintenance or prosthetics during that time. For people to take up the job, they must be paid more than presidents.
- An earlier book in the same series, The Naked Sun, takes place on a world where people have become repulsed by the idea of physical contact to another person, to the point that even being in the same room as another human being is Squicky. They've also nearly perfecte the science of growing test tube babies. Despite the fact that gestating and raising babies is absolutely essential to their society in the most literal way possible, it is also considered a repugnant occupation.
- Played With in Animorphs - Andalites have a society where males are all supposed to be warriors, but female scientists and artists seem to be highly respected too. There are problems for those like Aldrea who want to step outside their gender's role, but a few years into the war there's an idea that a good warrior should also have rounded skills, and by the main events of the series there are a few female military cadets as well.
- Part of what brings about this change is the invention and wide implementation of morphing technology. Traditionally, males have larger tail blades, the primary Andalite warrior weapon, so it wasn't feasible for women to be in combat. However, with the advent of morphing technology (and better weapons and spaceships, too), tail blades aren't the only weapon, or even the most practical, paving the way for females to become more accepted as warriors.
- Crops up in Clan culture in some of the BattleTech books. The warrior caste is considered the pinnacle of Clan society and the heads of the Warrior Caste are the ones who get to make decisions for the entire clan. Some of the Scientist and Technician Castes get a little respect but only if they're involved in developing and maintaining the Clan's military apparatus, or for the Scientists helping maintain the Clan's genetic selection process, and even that is rather grudging. The rest of the Castes and the Merchant and Labourer castes get no respect at all. A few Clans have better, more inclusive attitudes—but others look upon the "lesser" castes with everything just short of hate.
- This is largely due to the serious divide between the military elite who are all Designer Babies grown in People Jars, and consider anyone who was conceived and borne naturally to be deeply inferior and slightly nauseating.
- This ends up biting them in the butt hard when the Scientist casts and warrior washouts form a rebellion known as the Society. They were numerically inferior, but the Society had developed even more advanced versions of some of the newer weaponry that the Warrior caste had been using over the last couple of decades and other advances that the Warrior caste spurned. The Society eventually lost, but this set back research for years, especially when the Warriors of the affected Clans purged their Scientist castes to prevent another uprising.
- Subverted by the Canim in Codex Alera. The Warriors and Ritualists are prone to infighting with each other, not over this or over superiority, but over who can better serve the interests of the Makers—the farmers, mothers, artisans, cooks...basically everyone who isn't an honor-bound warrior or powerful ritualist.
- In Halo: The Cole Protocol, we learn that the Sangheili despise doctors, because the species views blood as something sacred that should only be spilled from battle, but doctors cause you to bleed without honor. This bites them in the butt after the war ends, when they learn just how crippling it is for their entire species to be all Proud Warrior Race Guys.
- This comes up with the Warrior-Servant caste in The Forerunner Saga. Forerunner society has ideals of nonviolence, so Warriors are a pretty low class, but the Warriors are obviously necessary to save the citizenry from any threats others might pose. Subverted when it turns out Warriors used to be at the top of social pyramid, but their ruthless tactics led to the xenocide of the Precursors, and thus their caste was demoted to one of the lowest as punishment.
- The western Angarak kingdoms of David Eddings' The Belgariad are descended from the people of the ancient city Cthol Mishrak. When Torak sent them to West, he divided them up among caste lines. The Murgos are descended from the upper class, in fact the word "Murgo" is Old Angarak for "warrior/nobleman". As such, they have no idea how to do anything but fight, and consider it beneath their dignity to do anything else anyway, and when they're separated from the craftsmen (Nadraks) and peasants (Thulls) they almost starve to death until they discover the concept of slavery. In Cthol Murgos, every Murgo man is a soldier, every Murgo woman is a baby factory, and everyone else is A. not an Angarak, and B. a slave.
- Subverted in Vorkosigan Saga. While soldiering is the most honored profession on Barrayar, the only reason technology is low is because of a natural disaster and they are racing to catch up fast. The Imperial Military Hospital (ImpMil) is proverbial on Barrayar and has won the respect of outsiders as well.
- In the Tortall Universe powerful mages often make normal people edgy and fearful, even when they're using their powers for things like healing and defense. This feeling is less present in the Circle of Magic books, where academic mages and their wares are fairly common...however, ambient mages, which get their power from everyday things and are much rarer, get a bit of this. Tris in particular has a lot of trouble with this trope, since people are either terrified of her, envious, or think she's just flat out lying about her weather powers.
- This used to be the case in Shadows of the Apt, where the Beetle-kin and several other kinden were enslaved by the magic-using Moth-kin and others to perform the menial labor of empire. Then the Beetles developed the crossbow. Now the world is divided between the "Apt" peoples who have a natural facility with technology; and the "Inapt" peoples, many of whom could literally not use a crossbow to save their own lives. Needless to say the Apt are doing quite well for themselves, having inverted the trope completely by the start of the series.
Live Action TV
- Angel: Lorne got no respect on Pylea, for not wanting to be a warrior.
- In the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Suspicions", Ferengi scientist Dr. Reyga, who wished to be taken seriously by the scientific community and also had to fight against his own people's mindset, invents "Metaphasic shielding" and is then murdered. Initially, only Dr. Crusher and a small team of visiting alien scientists realize just how valuable his discovery was. Later Dr. Crusher uses the same metaphasic shields to escape and later defeat the Borg...by hiding in the corona of a star.
- Also in that episode was literal Klingon scientist Kurak, mentioned in the page quote. Dr. Crusher theorizes that her status as "not a people person" is due to being mistreated and disrespected by her own people, though she does admit that this is just a guess.
- On Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, another Ferengi, Rom, was horrible at business but a skilled engineer and handyman.
- Seeing the scorn his father went through for not making a profit, despite his skill with machinery, gives Nog the inspiration to sacrifice some of his Ferengi beliefs as he strives towards, and succeeds at, becoming the first Ferengi in Starfleet. He may not make much profit for himself, but he learns to adapt his cultural upbringing (trying to get people what they want, by any means necessary) to the Federation's more open-minded ideology, doing a great job of making sure that his captain gets exactly what he needs to keep his crew happy and to keep his ship running as well as it can by trading things that they didn't need). He does this so well that it suggests that had he chosen to become a profit-driven Ferengi, he would have been able to do that quite well. However, Starfleet is clearly his destiny: In one potential future, he's shown to be a respected captain.
- Nog's decision to pursue a Starfleet career also helps Rom realize his full potential; over the course of the series Rom grows a spine (he seems to be inspired by his son's example), and he eventually quits his job at the bar and becomes a station engineer, where he quickly gains respect from both the Bajorans and Starfleet for his skill.
- Klingons themselves seem to have a case of Depending on the Writer in regard to this trope. Deep Space Nine gives us a (villainous) Klingon Lawyer, who saw the court as his battlefield, and was apparently well regarded for it, as he tells Sisko when Sisko attempts to invoke the trope to rile him up. Worf's grandfather, seen in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, was himself a lawyer, and according to the Expanded Universe gained numerous ranks and honors through his legal acumen. (He's a colonel in the film; novels mention he attained the rank of General through his legal kickassery.)
- Klingons at their best tend to be portrayed as not caring what you do, so long as you treat it like a fight and find a way to use it to put the hurt on someone. Heck, DS9 features a Klingon restaurant where the owner will play the concertina to patrons.
- In one episode of DS9 we heard a snippet of a Klingon science vessel's log where the captain spoke of winning battles against ignorance, and bringing home vast spoils in the form of new knowledge.
- In Star Trek: Enterprise, a Klingon doctor and medical researcher finds a cure for a bioweapon that is being used dishonorably by his superior. He considers himself being executed for delivering the cure to be equivalent to a warrior sacrificing himself to win a great battle. The idea seems to make him very happy.
- Averted with Leck, a Ferengi "Eliminator" (read: assassin, he "eliminates competition") who's in it for the killing and combat, not the profit. Other Ferengi are too afraid of him to show any disrespect.
- Star Trek: Enterprise had a Klingon Lawyer represent some of the crew, and he lamented how the Warrior Caste was bullying the rest of the population. He claims that this is a fairly recent trend. How recent exactly is unknown though, as his father was a teacher and his mother a biologist, and both were seemingly respected for it, but Klingons are long-lived.
- The ''IKS Gorkon'' series of novels has two clear-cut examples and one not so clear-cut. B'Oraq is a female Klingon doctor who attended the Starfleet Medical Academy and seeks to bring medicine to the Klingons. Her efforts only earn her scorn among her fellow Klingons. Then there's the above-mentioned Kurak, who becomes the titular ship's Chief Engineer when honor forces her to join the Imperial Defense Force. Then there's Lokor, the ship's Chief of Security, whose methods are often compared to those of the Romulans (many suspect him of being a covert Imperial Intelligence agent).
- In the original series episode "Elaan of Troyus," one of Elaan's attendants contemptuously dismisses engineering as a "menial" occupation, much to Scotty's irritation.
- Constantly zig-zagged between playing this trope straight and inverting it with B'Ellana Torres herself in Star Trek: Voyager. As a Starfleet engineer, she is quite respected. Problem is that she is half-Klingon, and her focus as a Starfleet officer leads her to being dishonored for not being a Klingon ANYTHING. By not embracing her Klingon heritage and bloodline, she risks sending both herself and her mother to Gre'Thor (Klingon Hell). Sins of the Child, as they put it. So while she gets respect for being a Klingon Engineer by Starfleet, she gets no respect by Klingons for not being Klingon.
- Farscape has a few examples. Peacekeepers look down on "techs" as inferior because they spend their time fixing the ships and weapons instead of fighting with them. In one episode a planet called Litagara is featured, which is run by lawyers. The 5% of the population that aren't lawyers are treated as second-class citizens.
- The Big Bang Theory has a running joke about Wolowitz being the only non-Ph.D. in the group. In general, those that think (most prominently Sheldon) ridicule those that do (most prominently Wolowitz). Other characters minor and major have similar dynamics, such as Leonard's practical hypothesis testing being disdained by his own mother, a clinical neurologist which by definition requires others to test her hypotheses (and who despite focusing her work on children is an utterly incompetent parent). This is an extension of the broader trend of the show to allow demeaning comments to stand in the name of comedy, while attempts to challenge them are dismissed or forgone.
- Todd the Wraith from Stargate Atlantis, who is more akin to a scientist. Unlike other Wraith, he recognises that foolishly gorging on human worlds means their food supply runs out faster and only leads to in-fighting between the Hives. In the last season, Todd even accepts the Atlantis team's help to find a way to rid his people of their dependency on having to feed, being one of the few Wraith to admit that it is a weakness that's impeding their growth as a species. There is a reason why Todd is over 10,000 years old. That said, he is backstabbed by his own people numerous times, either directly or indirectly.
- The Minbari in Babylon 5 have the Religious and Warrior castes, which feature prominently in the story, and the barely-seen and almost never-mentioned Worker caste that makes the work of the other two castes possible. The Worker caste does become critical when Delenn breaks the ruling Grey Council, delivering "The Reason You Suck" Speech to both her own Religious caste and the Warriors...then reforming the Council with the Workers in a 5:2:2 majority to keep the other two castes in check (and ending a civil war in the process). Canon states that prior to Valen, the Grey Council didn't exist and the Workers weren't even a proper caste with any form of representation at all, merely slaves of the Religious and Warriors. As a result, giving the workers an equal share of power with the priests and warriors was Fair for Its Day.
- The titular character (as well as his mentor Gaius, and later, Sir Mordred of BBC's Merlin is constantly subject to Arthur and the other residents of Camelot constantly badmouthing wizards, sorcerers, and any magical or magic-practicing being. Arthur's father Uther regularly executes mages and Arthur ended up continuing this after Uther's death and Merlin just keeps defending him and the kingdom, thinking that it is better to let this continue. He is constantly dumped on for being a dumb, cowardly incompetent servant, while secretly employing his supernatural powers to save the knights and innocent people, and allowing them to continue murdering magical beings like himself.
- Amongst the Orkish clans of Warhammer 40,000, the Blood Axes are distrusted and derided due to their willingness to retreat from combat instead of dying pointlessly, hire themselves out as mercenaries to other races, adopt (garish and clashing) camouflage, and generally use tactics more sophisticated than More Dakka or a frontal attack. In short, mainstream Orks consider them culturally contaminated by those "stinkin' 'umies!"
- A more generic Ork example are the Stormboyz, who have rebelled from a Chaotic Evil society for a lifestyle of military discipline, marching, and uniforms. Other Orks shake their heads at Stormboyz' obsession with battlefield intelligence beyond knowing the general direction to the enemy, but put up with their deviant behavior since Stormboyz make such effective jet pack assault troops.
- Sanctioned psykers are essential to the Imperium of Man, since they provide navigators to guide fleets through the Warp, Astropathic communication, and incredibly powerful assets on the battlefield, yet most citizens treat them with a mixture of fear, hatred and, oddly enough, respect (because a Psyker must stand before The God-Emperor). This isn't entirely unjustified in a setting where a single Psyker's lapse of control can result in the Legions of Hell spilling out into the material universe, and explains why unsanctioned Psykers are burnt at the stake with the other mutants and deviants as per government policy.
- Averted with the actual scientistsnote in the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus. They are absolutely necessary for keeping the Imperium technologically equipped since scientific knowledge has been all but lost to the rest of the human race, and it may as well be magic to them for what little they know of it. As such, the AdMech is given a lot of leeway, and they're pretty much a self-contained empire within an empire whose beliefs would actually be considered outright heresy by the rest of the Imperium if they didn't need them so much.
- But played somewhat straight with the Techmarines: Since they study technology for decades on Mars in order to properly maintain the Chapter's vast amounts of technology, they are somewhat estranged from the battle-brothers who've done nothing but fight since their initiation. That said, they do get respect, since they're ten-foot tall power armored half-cyborgs with giant mechanical arms and power tools.
- The Tau take pains to avert this, and their Greater Good philosophy honors all roles as equals, from the farmers and builders and scientists of the Earth Caste to the bureaucrats and merchants of the Water Caste. Of course, the ruling Ethereal Caste can be considered more equal than others.
- Aslan in Traveller are a subversion. Females are expected to do all the jobs besides war and politics and esoteric specialties that can be considered related to these, for war and politics are the jobs of the males. All the same, female Aslan get no lower status because of this arrangement.
- In BattleTech, the Clans get a hefty dose of this. Being that their entire society is based around War Is Glorious with their genetically engineered Super Soldiers charging off into battles and basically ruling their society, they do not look highly upon the scientists that spliced their genes together, or the scientists that made their BattleMech's weapons twice as effective as those used by the Inner Sphere. Clan Warriors scorn scientists, the mechanics that repair their equipment, and laborers. This even shows up in their faster-than-light capable JumpShips and WarShips, where technicians seem to be regarded as expendable - a captured Clan technician on an Inner Sphere warship is surprised at all the protective gear and life support equipment that engineers are given when working in dangerous conditions.
- The Clan that took this the furthest was the now dead Smoke Jaguars. They decided that worrying about such things as logistics and manufacturing were beneath the dignity of a warrior and took to raiding their neighbors for needed materials rather than bothering to build their own. This came back to seriously bite them in the ass after they invaded the Inner Sphere, because they took so many casualties that their anemic level of production couldn't come close to producing enough mechs to bring their forces back up to strength, and when the Inner Sphere governments teamed up to attack them several years later (the Inner Sphere wanted to send a message to the Clans and tried to destroy what they thought was the strongest Clan in the Inner Sphere at the time) everyone realized that the Jaguars were really a Paper Tiger and they were completely wiped out.
- This glorification of the Warrior Caste at the expense of all the others comes back later in the official history to bite the Clans in their collective ass. True to this trope, it's the Scientists who feel the most unappreciated, and a large, secret cabal of them end up leading a bloody revolt among many of the major Clans of note, costing untold lives and materiel and effectively destroying the Clans' aforementioned technology studies that made them military powerhouses.
- Unsurprising the most successful Clans are the one who avert this, namely Clan Diamond Shark Clan Star Adder, Clan Coyote, and Clan Ghost Bear.
- Very much averted by the Ultimates in Eclipse Phase; their habitats have nearly as much space devoted to research as to training grounds and weapons manufacture and status can be granted via intellectual pursuits as well as battle prowess. After all they're transhumanists like nearly everyone else who survived the fall and someone has to design the mods that give them an edge over the lesser beings.
- In the Palladium Books game Rifts, the Vanguard are a society of mages who secretly protect the Coalition States, a society who considers mages the enemy and generally tortures then executes them. The Vanguard pretty much accept this paranoia and protect the CS in spite of it, much along the lines of Merlin in the BBC TV series. Also in Rifts, Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys (mutant humans and bio-engineered humanoid dogs) are the most reliable magic (and supernatural) detectors for keeping squishy human territory free of mega-threats, yet they are discriminated against as second-class citizens (as are all psychics) and viewed with great fear and paranoia. This may be slowly turning though.
- Played With in Werewolf: The Apocalypse from the old World of Darkness line. Werewolves are stratified into their societal roles of lorekeepers, judges, mystics, and the like through their Auspice (the moon phase they're born under, or adopt with the right rite), which also governs how they gain rank and renown in society (except for Ragabash, who are allowed to be more freeform). That said, there's also no social stigma attached to a werewolf filling a nontraditional role, like a Theurge who's also a great warrior or a Philodox with an active sense of satire...so long as they can, at minimum, fulfill their Auspice duties ("Sure, that Ahroun warrior can recite whole sagas, but can he fight?").
- Krogan scientists in Mass Effect are so rare that the other races don't even think they're smart enough to have them. In the first game, Urdnot Wrex (himself a Warrior Poet who feels My Species Doth Protest Too Much) sarcastically asks the Player Character when the last time s/he saw a krogan scientist was. Further, the straightest example of this trope actually comes from salarian scientist Mordin Solus, who was recruited into the party for his own scientific expertise. During one conversation about the genophage, if Shepard asks him whether krogan adaptation to it could be because of krogan scientists making a breakthrough, he disdainfully replies that he's never met a krogan scientist worthy of the title.
- There's a downplayed subversion in [[Mass Effect 1: Saren has a krogan scientist in his employ that tragically gets no lines other than pleading with you not to destroy his work—while attacking you.
- In the second game, we actually meet three: Okeer, a warlord whom pretty much every other krogan speaks of with revulsion and disdain due to nature of his experiment (but nevertheless succeeded in creating the most badass krogan since Wrex himself) and Urdnot Fortack, whom Wrex assigns duties such as medicinal engineering and crop genetics. Fortack laments this by saying that krogan scientists are supposed to make things that explode. And finally, the krogan mechanic on Tuchanka, who complains that he never gets any respect for what he does, even though everything would fall apart if he wasn't there to fix it. Krogan mechanics working on other worlds do seem to get respect though.
- The krogan do at least try to subvert this trope, and the few scientists that do exist aren't exactly out of shape nerds, either. Lord High Researcher Fortack mentions how he killed his predecessor to get his position as Clan Urdnot's scientist. And Okeer, after all, was a Warlord. Krogan Shamans undergo horrific rites to gain their position, rites that kill many krogans, and so are worthy of respect. Krogan Ambassadors represent the strength of their clan and so must themselves be mighty warriors lest their clan be viewed as weak. Further, Krogan recognize that not everyone can be a great warrior. So they have a system where a krogan can seek a warrior as a sponsor (called a "krantt") to help them in the ritual.
Urdnot Shaman: Not every krogan can be the strongest warrior, but each must inspire loyalty and the will to fight in his comrades.
- On Tuchanka, you can overhear a pair of Urdnot warriors discussing how one of them actually wishes to become a scientist, to the relative bemusement of his comrade. At the end of the conversation chain, the aspirant wins a full-ride scholarship to attend a prestigious university on the Citadel, and can barely contain his excitement.
- Even the game itself takes potshots at them, despite supposedly being from an objective in-universe source. The description for Vaul is a good example.
- From a Metagame perspective, Newman Fortefighters/Fighmasters and CAST Fortetechers/Masterforces in Phantasy Star Universe.
- Nords in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim who take up magic, such as Whiterun's court mage Farengar Secret-Fire and Onmund at the College of Winterhold, get to put up with a society that derides magic as something for Elves and other weaklings. Although Nords do appreciate the healers of the Restoration school, and like having their weapons and armor enchanted - a hypocrisy which irritates the College's resident enchanter, who notes that at least his College will always be accepted, if not liked.
- According to Tsun this wasn't always so - the ancient Nords referred to magic as "the Clever Craft," and suitably heroic mages were considered to have earned their place in Sovngarde, spells or no spells. The disdain for mages came during the Oblivion Crisis, since the Nord population at large blamed mages for the crisis in the first place. One of the three ancient Nord heroes was a mage, although he still used a battleaxe in melee if need be.
- Similarly done with the High Elves, although in reverse. They have a Fantastic Caste System which places wise-men (teachers, philosophers, mages, artists) near the top of the pyramid, while front-line grunts are just above workers. In one conversation between two Thalmor guards, you overhear one of them saying that he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards.
- Redguard Mages were portrayed this way in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Trayvond, a student at the mages' guild in Cheydinal, lampshades this:
Trayvond: I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages' Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages' Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked.
- The general populace in the Dragon Age games fear mages. But magic is extremely useful, and mages were vital in halting the Qunari's previous crusade. So much so that even the magic-hating Qunari have started putting their own mages to good use.
- Averted if the Warden is a Mage in Dragon Age: Origins. During the ending, First Enchanting Irving admits that he honestly never thought he'd live to see the day when the people of Ferelden would fill the streets, gladly cheering for a Mage who has become their saviour.
- Similarly averted in Dragon Age II, where a Mage Hawke is adored by the population of Kirkwall for single-handedly ending the Qunari invasion, despite having been outed as an illegal Apostate who'd been secretly operating under the Templars noses for several years. This effectively makes Mage!Hawke politically untouchable by the Templars in Kirkwall.
- Anders is similarly beloved by the Ferelden refugees in Kirkwall, due to working tirelessly as their Healer in his clinic in Darktown. This is despite his activities in the Mage Underground and his occasional lapses into Dr. Jerk territory at times.
- Pretty much any noncombatant is widely disdained by the Aurorans in EV Nova. Ironically, the Auroran house that most fulfills the Proud Warrior Race Guy trope, House Heraan, is also the house that is most likely to avert this trope. That's why they get cool starships like the Argosy and Thunderforge: they actually pay for scientific research. With this said, while scientists are consistently looked down upon by the other Houses, the degree to which other non-warrior professions are looked down upon varies. For instance, the description for the House Dani world of Palein notes that engineers and physicians are given at least grudging respect (as the warriors are very well aware of how much they need both to keep fighting), with it going so far as to say that no-one would dare insult the graduate physicians of Palein, who spend their lives healing the countless warriors seriously injured in battle.
- Averted by the Iron and Ash Legions of the Charr in Guild Wars 2. While even their leaderships seems dead set on domination and bloodlust, they're second only to Asuran Magitek in terms of technological and industrial development and have created technology ranging from tanks to the printing press. They don't consider their scholars or technicians any less of a combatant than their front-line soldiers, though.
- The three Legions give each other flak for their main methods of warfare. The dedicated infantry of the Blood Legion often deride the Iron and Ash for relying on crutches (technology and stealth/deception respectively) and only change their mind about individuals from those Legions who prove themselves in combat.
- In World of Warcraft, the Mantid are sort of a subversion. They're such a Proud Warrior Race that young Mantid don't even have any real place in Mantid society until they're taken part in battle, but, while Mantid are all expected to kill things, Mantid society isn't exactly picky about how they do it. Players get to meet some of the Mantid's greatest warriors (who've been sealed in amber, just in case) and among them are an alchemist, a Fluffy Tamer, and a Mad Scientist.
- Star Trek Online:
- See that example about Nog joining Starfleet? It inspired a lot more Ferengi to join their ranks. It almost got Ferenginar into the Federation, but certain groups didn't like that idea.
- There's a DOFF mission you can choose as part of the KDF where a medical member of your crew wants to get better medical equipment. Getting a Critical Success on it lets to having another officer wrestle him and put him out of action to shut him up.
- Tesskans in Drive have no scientists of their own: they enslaved the Filipods to do the science for them. And the Filipods secretly bit them back during the war against humans, because they knew a human victory was good for them.
- Whomp!: The Smartest Klingon.
- Some orcs from Fairy Dust attempt to educate a few of their members enough to use and maintain modern technology, but even knowing the end goal, they find the more succesful intellectuals strange and annoying.
- Quentyn Quinn, Space Ranger features Ensign Dweebly, the adorkable nerd from the ironically dystopian Star-Trek-Federation-Expy. Basically, they're a deconstruction of true communism (where supposedly everyone is equal and nobody is allowed to starve or be executed, etc.); it ends up being super-fascist and requires aid from a higher-dimensional being just to (barely) survive. Getting told this by said secret-leader convinces him to defect to the Seven Systems Alliance with Quentyn as his part-time captain.
- You'd be surprised how little use a kobold tribe has for an economics major. Still, Nodwick and his friends find him useful.
- Nilenirans in The Movolreilen Saga extend this to any girl that doesn't complete her training, even if she still becomes a warrior (These warriors that failed their training are called "Secondaries", and make up the bulk of the Nileniran military strength).