History Main / KlingonScientistsGetNoRespect

10th Jun '17 8:46:14 PM Fireblood
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In the real world, this is fairly common, especially in premodern times. Universities, for example, were started largely with the aim of studying theology, with the natural sciences being a vaguely complimentary supplement. Craftsmen were seen as inferior to farmers, as unlike farmers they merely "reworked" what farmers produced. Merchants were largely considered inferior to everyone since they were seen as producing literally nothing and making profit. This stigma was, in fact, one barrier to industrialization in many place, since the classes with the most potential to produce productivity gains were socially discouraged. While this has subsided, to a large extent, it is still enough to say that ''every'' society has had at least one job that is looked down upon by the culture at large while still being entirely necessary for that society to function. [[noreallife]]

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In the real world, this is fairly common, especially in premodern times. Universities, for example, were started largely with the aim of studying theology, with the natural sciences being a vaguely complimentary supplement. Craftsmen were seen as inferior to farmers, as unlike farmers they merely "reworked" what farmers produced. Merchants were largely considered inferior to everyone since they were seen as producing literally nothing and making profit. This stigma was, in fact, one barrier to industrialization in many place, places, since the classes with the most potential to produce productivity gains were socially discouraged. While this has subsided, to a large extent, it is still enough to say that ''every'' society has had at least one job that is looked down upon by the culture at large while still being entirely necessary for that society to function. [[noreallife]]
31st May '17 10:14:46 PM Discar
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--->'''Lord High Researcher Fortack''': My predecessor said no one would understand the true worth of my work. As I pulled my blade from his chest, I knew he was telling the truth.\\
'''Commander Shepard''': [[DeadpanSnarker Not exactly what I would call effective academic peer review]].



-->'''Urdnot Shaman''': Not every krogan can be the strongest warrior, but each must inspire loyalty and the will to fight in his comrades.

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-->'''Urdnot --->'''Urdnot Shaman''': Not every krogan can be the strongest warrior, but each must inspire loyalty and the will to fight in his comrades.
28th May '17 10:39:58 PM KeithM
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** Very averted in Videogame/MassEffectAndromeda. Nakmor Kesh is an engineer who almost single-handedly kept the Nexus from falling apart before the human Pathfinder showed up, is a member of the ''de facto'' governing council and respected by almost all the others (except salarians), and makes her BadassGrandpa old warrior Drack incredibly proud. [[spoiler: Her boyfriend]] Vorn is a respected krogan botanist, and at the krogan colony one of the first people you encounter is a scientist who certainly isn't ashamed of what he is.
24th May '17 8:00:36 AM BeerBaron
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** The [[OurElvesAreDifferent Altmer (High Elves)]] are the most [[WitchSpecies magically inclined race]] in Tamriel with a [[CulturalPosturing very haughty]] CrystalSpiresAndTogas society. While primarily known for their sorcery and magical prowess, they do employ [[MagicKnight armed-and-armored soldiers]] as well. However, these soldiers are openly disrespected by the mages, who are typically upper-class. In their FantasticCasteSystem, "warriors" come in near the bottom, just above common workers. In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', one can overhear [[EnemyChatter a conversation between two Thalmor guards]] where one of them says that "he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards," showing that this dislike goes in the opposite direction as well.

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** The [[OurElvesAreDifferent Altmer (High Elves)]] are the most [[WitchSpecies magically inclined race]] in Tamriel with a [[CulturalPosturing very haughty]] CrystalSpiresAndTogas society. While primarily known for their sorcery and magical prowess, they do employ [[MagicKnight armed-and-armored soldiers]] as well. However, these soldiers are openly disrespected by the mages, who are typically upper-class. In their FantasticCasteSystem, "warriors" come in near around the bottom, middle, just above merchants and common workers. In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', one can overhear [[EnemyChatter a conversation between two Thalmor guards]] where one of them says that "he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards," showing that this dislike goes in the opposite direction as well.
24th May '17 7:58:32 AM BeerBaron
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* Nords in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'' who take up magic, such as Whiterun's court mage Farengar Secret-Fire and Onmund at the College of Winterhold, get to put up with a society that derides magic as something for Elves and other weaklings. Although Nords do appreciate the healers of the Restoration school, and like having their weapons and armor enchanted - a hypocrisy which irritates the College's resident enchanter, who notes that at least his College will always be accepted, if not liked.
** According to [[spoiler:[[PhysicalGod Tsun]]]] this wasn't always so - the ancient Nords referred to magic as "the Clever Craft," and suitably heroic mages were considered to have earned their place in [[WarriorHeaven Sovngarde]], spells or no spells. The disdain for mages came during the [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion Crisis]], since the Nord population at large blamed mages for the crisis in the first place. One of the three ancient Nord heroes was a mage, although he still used a battleaxe in melee if need be.
** Similarly done with the High Elves, although in reverse. They have a FantasticCasteSystem which places wise-men (teachers, philosophers, mages, artists) near the top of the pyramid, while front-line grunts are just above workers. In [[EnemyChatter one conversation between two Thalmor guards]], you overhear one of them saying that he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards.
* Redguard Mages were portrayed this way in ''Videogame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion''. Trayvond, a student at the mages' guild in Cheydinal, lampshades this:
-->'''Trayvond:''' I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages' Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages' Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked.

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* Nords in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'' who take up magic, such as Whiterun's court mage Farengar Secret-Fire and Onmund at ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** The [[OurElvesAreDifferent Altmer (High Elves)]] are
the College of Winterhold, get to put up most [[WitchSpecies magically inclined race]] in Tamriel with a society [[CulturalPosturing very haughty]] CrystalSpiresAndTogas society. While primarily known for their sorcery and magical prowess, they do employ [[MagicKnight armed-and-armored soldiers]] as well. However, these soldiers are openly disrespected by the mages, who are typically upper-class. In their FantasticCasteSystem, "warriors" come in near the bottom, just above common workers. In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', one can overhear [[EnemyChatter a conversation between two Thalmor guards]] where one of them says that derides "he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards," showing that this dislike goes in the opposite direction as well.
** The [[HornyVikings Nords]] are the exact opposite of the Altmer. As a ProudWarriorRace with BloodKnight traits who openly seek to enter [[WarriorHeaven Sovngarde]] when they die, the Nords openly deride those who practice
magic as something for Elves and other weaklings. Although Nords They do appreciate the healers of make an exception for the Restoration school, and like school of magic, as they do appreciate good healers. They also enjoy having their weapons and armor enchanted - a hypocrisy which irritates the College's College of Winterhold's resident enchanter, who notes that at least his College will profession "will always be accepted, if not liked.
** According to [[spoiler:[[PhysicalGod Tsun]]]]
liked." In ''Skyrim'', one can meet the old Nordic god Tsun, who states that this wasn't was not always so the case - the ancient Nords referred to magic as "the Clever Craft," and suitably heroic mages were considered to have earned their place in [[WarriorHeaven Sovngarde]], spells or no spells. The disdain (Many of these heroes were still {{Magic Knight}}s though, and quite capable in melee combat if the situation calls for mages came it.) These anti-magic beliefs only became worse during the [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion Crisis]], Crisis, since the Nord population at large blamed mages for the crisis in the first place. One of the three ancient Nord heroes was a mage, although he still used a battleaxe in melee if need be.
** Similarly done with the High Elves, although in reverse. They have a FantasticCasteSystem which places wise-men (teachers, philosophers, mages, artists) near the top of the pyramid, while front-line grunts are just above workers. In [[EnemyChatter one conversation between two Thalmor guards]], you overhear one of them saying that he hopes that a dragon eats all of their wizards.
place.
* Redguard Mages were portrayed this way ** The Redguards are another [[HumansAreWarriors race of Men]] which has an open dislike for those who practice magic. In their case, the only exception is made for users of the Destruction school, [[TheresNoKillLikeOverkill as dealing more damage is always a good thing]] in ''Videogame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion''. their culture. In ''[[Videogame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', Trayvond, a student at the mages' guild Mages' Guild hall in Cheydinal, Cheydinhal, lampshades this:
-->'''Trayvond:''' I'm ''"I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages' Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages' Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked."''
3rd May '17 10:03:05 PM LinTaylor
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* A ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons 3rd Edition'' splatbook discussed the concept in regard to the Dwarves. Normally arcane magic (i.e. Wizards, Sorcerers and the like) are shunned because they go against the grain among Dwarven society. The closest they come to accepting the idea is the "Raver", a Dwarf Wizard who was driven insane when his latent magical talent manifested, and is essentially treated as a mentally ill family member. However, if a Raver wanders off and leaves the burrow, nobody's exactly hurrying to bring them back (though they do feel guilty about feeling this way).
28th Apr '17 12:45:38 AM euan112358
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* ''Fanfic/WarAndPeaceInMind'': Despite having the same {{Technopath}} power as their founder, Royal Pain, and being integral in protecting their AcademyOfEvil from detection and attack, the student {{Technopath}}s of the Academy get very little respect from their villain peers. [[spoiler: Which makes it easy for Warren to convert them during TheInfiltration.]]
4th Apr '17 1:52:41 PM HotelCalifornia
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* Averted with the Nephilim/Hell Knights in ''FanFic/SonicXDarkChaos''. Their culture is based on strict and absolute egalitarianism, and many Nephilim willingly serve in non-combat roles without stigma. All of them - including Astorath - know that their great campaigns of slaughter wouldn't be possible without the sacrifices of their scientist brothers.
3rd Apr '17 6:59:22 PM smallch
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About real life, it is enough to say that ''every'' society has had at least one job that is looked down upon by the culture at large while still being entirely necessary for that society to function. [[noreallife]]

to:

About In the real life, world, this is fairly common, especially in premodern times. Universities, for example, were started largely with the aim of studying theology, with the natural sciences being a vaguely complimentary supplement. Craftsmen were seen as inferior to farmers, as unlike farmers they merely "reworked" what farmers produced. Merchants were largely considered inferior to everyone since they were seen as producing literally nothing and making profit. This stigma was, in fact, one barrier to industrialization in many place, since the classes with the most potential to produce productivity gains were socially discouraged. While this has subsided, to a large extent, it is still enough to say that ''every'' society has had at least one job that is looked down upon by the culture at large while still being entirely necessary for that society to function. [[noreallife]]
2nd Apr '17 4:23:21 PM nombretomado
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* From a {{Metagame}} perspective, Newman Fortefighters/Fighmasters and CAST Fortetechers/Masterforces in ''PhantasyStarUniverse''.

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* From a {{Metagame}} perspective, Newman Fortefighters/Fighmasters and CAST Fortetechers/Masterforces in ''PhantasyStarUniverse''.''VideoGame/PhantasyStarUniverse''.
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