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openmistress of the art of death Literature
Can I recreate the article for Mistress of the Art of Death? I found it on the mystery literature page but it had been redlinked, and the link said that I needed to ask for permission here to create it since it had been previously deleted for being a stub.
I already have at least 17 tropes lined up for the first book (including the redlinks it's left on other trope pages) and will add more as I work through the series. I'm currently halfway through the second book, Serpent's Tale, and if permission is granted I intend to trope all five books.
Edited by DoodleropenNantucket Trilogy Literature
Why was Nantucket Trilogy transformed into a redirect for Island in the Sea of Time? The latter is a book within the former series, not the other way around.
resolved Formatting and Name Space for Chaos Timeline Literature
Hi, I was noticed that page Chaos Timeline has its tropes split into various categories such as Alternate History Tropes, General Tropes, Character Tropes, etc which is not something I've seen before and was wondering if this is something that should be changed to the more standard list of all tropes in one list?
Also, and I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but I noticed that the work is in the Literature namespace, but appears to be a timeline on Alternate History.com, which takes the form of a series of forum posts, and I've noticed that most works of this variety are in the Web Original namespace. Should this work also be in the Web Original namespace?
openWarrior Cats needs organization Literature
Hey there, so Warrior Cats has an organization problem, with various tropers setting up different pages in different ways (apparently over the years) without being aware of each other. We've got a bunch of essentially duplicate pages and aren't sure what the "right" way to organize all this is.
Sorry in advance for the wall of text.
Basically to explain how the work is set up: Warrior Cats is a book series consisting of just over 100 works at this point. The "main" series is split into six-book-long story arcs, and there's dozens of side books and stories (standalone extra-long-or-short books, graphic novels, short stories/plays posted on the official website, etc) - these side books consist of side adventures, perspective flips, prequels, etc. Altogether, this makes up one long consistent story, just pieces from different POVs, with lots of overlap between them (see this crazy image◊ which is an accurate, up-to-date depiction of how everything fits together). There's also a tabletop game that they included in the back of some of the books, and some games (browser games and an official Roblox environment).
So as far as the TV Tropes pages, originally it was just one long Literature page, Literature/WarriorCats. I also created a Recap page for the individual books since I felt it was the cleanest way rather than creating 100 work pagesmy reasoning there aren't always many examples, especially for the short stories, and the Funny, YMMV, etc subpages would be basically blank if needed at all. This would also make linking on trope pages cleaner as it can just link to Literature/WarriorCats - especially since several of the books are a perspecive flip that cover the same situations so the example would appear in multiple books. Other lengthy works like Animorphs have done similar.
Anyway, I've since discovered that other tropers have made individual pages for some of the books or story arcs, so we have essentially a whole bunch of duplicates going on, many of which are definitely out of date.
So yeah, what we currently have:
- Literature/WarriorCats, the original page containing examples from the whole series, which has often been used as the main page/the one linked to in examples on trope pages. It also contains Funny, Tearjerker, YMMV, Trivia, etc from all the books.
- Recap/WarriorCats with each book having its own recap page with examples
- Franchise/WarriorCats
- Pages for individual books or portions of the series, some of which have their own examples and ymmv, funny, etc pages. In many but not all cases, these are duplicates of the examples either on the equivalent Literature/WarriorCats page, or an individual book's Recap page.
- The individual six-book-long arcs: Warrior Cats: The Original Series, Warrior Cats: The New Prophecy, Warrior Cats: Power of Three, Warrior Cats: Omen of the Stars, Warrior Cats: Dawn of the Clans, Warrior Cats: A Vision of Shadows, Warrior Cats: The Broken Code, Warrior Cats: A Starless Clan
- Warrior Cats: SkyClan Saga, a messy grouping of some of the Super Editions, graphic novels, and novellas, covering a sort of side story arc about the exile & rebuilding of a missing faction. The page is missing some books relevant to it but that story arc has since merged with the main story anyway.
- Warrior Cats Prequel Super Editions, another messy grouping of some of the side books that take place around the same time as each other. They're not the only prequels, or the only books that take place during this time period anymore.
- Warrior Cats Novellas, a grouping specifically of the shorter-than-normal novellas that take place across the whole series. Theoretically they could fit on one of the previously listed pages or multiple, depending on the novella, and otherwise have nothing to do with each other
- Warrior Cats (manga), a grouping specifically of the "manga" side stories. Manga/WarriorCats redirects to this page. Note that there's some confusion as to what to label these as, since they originally were branded as "manga", then reprinted & had new come out as "graphic novels", and as of the last week or so they announced that they're also going to be adapting the actual first story arc into its own graphic novel adaptation (the existing ones had all been original stories rather than a straight adaptation of a book).
- Books/etc with their own pages (note that some are under Literature, one is under Comic Book, one is under Theatre): Bramblestar's Storm, Moth Flight's Vision, Tigerheart's Shadow, Crowfeather's Trial, Warrior Cats: The Rise of Scourge, Brightspirit's Mercy
- TabletopGame/WarriorsAdventureGame for the tabletop game at the back of the books
If I had it my way, I'd axe the separate arc/manga/prequel-super-edition/skyclan saga/novella/individual book pages, and move anything from those that's not a duplicate back to the main Warrior Cats pages or corresponding book's Recap page. Those pages are for the most part duplicates, out of date, and honestly hard to categorize the side books since there's so much overlap (see image I linked above).
I'd keep Franchise/WarriorCats, Literature/WarriorCats, the recap pages, and TabletopGame/WarriorsAdventureGame since that is technichally a separate thing that isn't part of the books' long story. And if I can think of tropes for the indivdual games then I'd give those their own pages, with a VideoGame/WarriorCats linking to them. I don't know if we'd need a Manga(or comic book or whatever)/WarriorCats or Theatre/WarriorCats pages for the graphic novels and short plays: for the books currently known as graphic novels I'm not sure what the proper namespace is for the books, they're not really considered a separate "work" by fans from the main series, and I don't know if/how to sort the existing ones which are side adventures vs the upcoming straight adaptation. The plays are very short things posted on the official site which have very few applicable tropes which I think is sufficiently covered by a Recap page.
But yeah, just wanted to check if there's a "right" way to organize this, and if we do go removing a bunch of pages, what the correct process for that would look like (if I've requested anything to be cut before it's been years.)
Edited by DawnwingopenAbout Lit RPG works Literature
The page Small Medium Big Trouble has folders has the start and end with a long list of the character's stats. Is this okay, or should they be removed?
resolved Taking You With Me for Lord Kaan ? Literature
In https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DarthBane page, more specifically, the Taking You with Me in Kaan's folder. Kaan was specifically manipulated into using the Thought Bomb to destroy the Jedi and he wrongly believes he would survive it with his followers (said in the book and in his wookiepedia page: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Skere_Kaan ).
While this act effectively kills him, his followers and the Jedi near it, I don't think the Taking You with Me trope should qualify since it is not his intention. I think it is more of a Desperation Attack or a Last Ditch Move than anything else.
What do you think ?
Edited by CybranLordopenWrong page name Literature
The character page for Carrie has a section for "the Mortimer Snerds" which is a misinterpretation that this is what Chris Hargensen's clique calls themselves. The book explains that this is not the name of their group, but an insulting nickname that they call outcast students. Should the name of the page be changed?
Edited by Javertshark13openMain work page at a different title than subpages Literature
In German, <ae> is a valid alternate spelling of <ä>. Hence Maerchen Maedchen has Märchen Mädchen as a redirect. But all the subpages are for Märchen Mädchen, with the other as redirect, which has the effect of making the Trivia, YMMV and Characters pages inaccessible from the main work page. Seeing as every other references source I can find calls it Märchen Mädchen, I would like to move them all there and turn Maerchen Maedchen into the redirect. Can I get a go-ahead here?
resolved Cut a page with mostly poorly written examples? Literature
I was doing a wick check for If You Call Before Midnight Tonight and found this work page for a children's book. It's filled with zero-context and poorly written examples (including linking a useful note as a trope example on a work page which isn't allowed). I see only two passably written examples on the page. Should we just cut this page?
ADDENDUM: Also, *batteries not included isn't on the Useful Notes page.
Edited by supernintendo128openChicka Chicka Boom Boom page Literature
Skit skat skoodle doot, flip flop flee, the page for this classic book was cut previously!
I created a draft for a much better write-up for the page, but the page says to ask here if it's safe to recreate it so I'm going ahead and asking here just to be safe.
Edited by kablammin45openSpace Cat Fascists (Katzis) Literature
I was wondering if there was a trope for space cats who happen to be fascist. Specifically, I personally have come across a minimum of three instances of this (Stephen Arseneault's Sodium series, Craig Alanson's Expeditionary Force series, and the Gigastructural Engineering mod for Stellaris (video game)). While I would put this under the TLP, as I couldn't find any, I feel that I'm too inexperienced to do so. Additionally, while I only mentioned 3, I'm fairly certain there are more examples.
-Post Script: Also, the reason I spelled "Katzis" with a K is a bit of homage to the difference between orcs in fantasy and orks in sci-fi. (Including the Our Orcs Are Different page on this very wiki).
Edited by Tabsresolved American Girl - Ban Evader Literature
It looks like a recent editor, Peachy2023, was found to be a ban evader for another account and their edits were reverted on multiple pages they added to. However, I edited two American Girl character pages they added to to remove or correct some of these edits, thinking it was a new editor making the same mistakes: the Historical Character Page at American Girls Collection - Historical Characters and Girls of the Year page at American Girls Collection - Girls Of The Year. Does someone else need to come in and revert these edits from the evader, or can I remove the other remaining examples myself?
(edit because the name made a red link and linking the affected pages. )
Edited by NethiliaopenTroper adding spaces to spoiler tags Literature
Readerbug819 edited Disney Chills solely to add spaces in the spoiler tags and the top quote, both of which seem unnecessary to me, and going by Text-Formatting Rules there shouldn't be spaces there.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.DisneyChills
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Readerbug819
Edited by lalalei2001openKing Of The Dinosaurs: Tyrannosaurus Rex Literature
So I just noticed that the page for King Of The Dinosaurs: Tyrannosaurus Rex was cut. Can I try to recreate it and its other related pages if there are any. If so can I get the original page source, so I can have a base to start off of?
Edited by RonnieR15openDebating Edits (My Next Life as a Villainess) Literature
There are some passages in My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom! that seem not to fit the tropes. I toned them down a couple of years ago, but now they're back to their original state (via a third troper, so no Edit War), with some minor tweaks having occurred since then. I give a more detailed explanation on the YMMV's discussion page, but basically, I'm trying to start a debate on whether it would be appropriate to edit, cut, or leave alone each passage.
open Potential complaining in YMMV of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? Literature
I had a look at the YMMV section of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? and the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot entry seems more complaining about the premise than any neglected plot points.
* They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The very idea of exploring an Isekai setting based in an MMORPG is nothing new, but has the potential to be extremely deep and rich if the lore and write-up is done right. The actual novel itself, though, only seems to rely on the game as an excuse as to why the players are there fighting the monsters as they are. There is no exploration of the game mechanics, how players interact with them and the bearings they have on the plot at large à la Sword Art Online, and actual story content is threadbare and disjointed. It doesn't even really work as a game setting, as games have to have rules and balancing if they're to be fair and believable, while gameplay in the story is deliberately designed poorly to favor a subset of players for no discernible reason than a gag, which is the deconstruction of isekai protagonists being The Ace. Nothing would have changed plot-wise had all of the game-related aspects been removed, as their presence in the story is just fluff. In fact, removing the constraints of a game setting would give the author even more leg room to wiggle without breaking the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, since it still has the makings of a standard isekai plot.Wanted input on what to do rather than get gung ho about deleting the example.
EDIT: Noticed the appropriate thread. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16509479720A72263400&page=1 Best just close this already.
Edited by JustaUsernameopenStub page Literature
So the page for Transition seem to have a lot of Zero-Context examples. I removed everything I could, which left it with only four examples. But three of them are just a quote each (albeit a long and kind of not bad ones). I don't know if it can be considered a stub like that.
Edited by ElBuenCuateopenOdd Redirect Combination Literature
No idea where to ask this: YMMV.Shogun connects to the redirect Literature.Shogun -> Literature.AsianSaga, whereafter YMMV.AsianSaga is separate from YMMV.Shogun. Is the best play here to ensure content from YMMV.Shogun is on YMMV.AsianSaga then make the Shogun page a redirect?
openHandling spoilers in a book series Literature
Is there any specific guide or at least guidance how to handle spoilers in a book series, where twists from first tome are just impossible to keep not spoilered out in later books, because they create the very foundation for their plot? I've got a long overdue trope list for a trilogy and this is one of the last excuses for not finishing working on it since Easter - no idea how to handle spoilers for tome 1 of three, where 2 and 3 run on the stuff introduced in the first book.
On YMMV.Johnny The Walrus
JaidebeccaShipper removed the word "transphobic" from this entry:
With the edit reason: " Arguing against an ideology is not transphobic, just like not following a religion doesn't mean you hate people of that religion."
Moroaica added "transphobic" back to the entry with the edit reason: "trans medication isn't 'ideology' and opposition to that is transphobic."
I'm not sure what do here. But my observation is that they're both troping with an agenda (but hey, correct me if that observation is wrong).
On a related note, Moroaica removed this entry:
Their edit reason for removing it was: "This book has no actual 'fans'"
As much as I disagree with this book's message, this isn't true. The book certainly does have fans and those who agree with Walsh's message. It feels like Moroaica is being disingenuous here and biased.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2