During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Seo. If he's the Dragon-in-Chief, who's the nominal Big Bad? Which title are we using?
Also, what was that crazy Serial Killer from a K-Drama Lighty did not too long ago?
Edited by ACW on Jan 14th 2020 at 5:43:39 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Eom, as the landlady of Eden Studio/matriarch of the group, has a degree of authority over them, but it's Seo who makes the rules and calls the shots.
I'm assuming you're referring to Police Chief Cha from Gap-Dong?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oh, Possessed. I'll leave that up to you.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 14th 2020 at 9:26:35 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So which title are we using for the work?
And no, not Gap-Dong (not Gui either). This was a relatively lengthy writeup (especially for Lighty). I think the killer was dead, but was able to possess bodies or something, and got killed for good in the water (not too sure about that last part).
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Yeah, Possessed. Dae-doo.
Edited by ACW on Jan 14th 2020 at 6:12:19 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Seo
Yes to Seo. Good luck, Bullman and Future.
@Men: I downvoted Vera.
Edited by falcontalons on Jan 14th 2020 at 4:17:53 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Seo.
RIP KissAnime.
to Seo Moon-Jo.
Goku Black
Finally have a new ep
What's the work?
Uncanny by David Macinnis Gill is a standalone ya horror novel.
When a bolt of lightning causes a Boston-wide blackout on her sixteenth birthday, Willow Jane doesn’t think anything of it—until she begins stopping time, until she comes face-to-face with her menacing familiar, until her sister disappears.
But these aren’t the only strange and horrifying things to come out of the storm. An ancient witch named the Shadowless has awoken and escaped from her crypt, and she’s looking for revenge on Willow Jane’s family.
Who is The shadowless /Malleus The deceiver ?
The shadowless real name Malleus the deceiver is a wicked witch who has committed hundreds of murders over her lifetime. Kidnapping a young boy named Harken she has him turned into her slave and forcing him into helping her kill innocents whose thumbs she them takes as trophies.
Anyway at one point, Malleus was captured by a village and massacred the onlookers for her witch burning getting off giggling over having some fun to Do. You see Malleus is specially vile, she feeds on her own kind. Finding people with magical talents called Norns and then killing them before devouring their souls and powers which she's done to hundreds of them. In order to collect more, Malleus inspired by the witch hunt thought of a great idea. She was the one who instituted the Salem witch trials and sent women to their deaths as their executioner before harvesting their souls.
Her ultimate plan was a young six year old girl conning whose harvest of her soul will grant her near godhood. However Harken has a change of heart and has her sisters who are in charge of forcing magical laws brought here since even He couldn't stomach child murder. She takes the child hostage bit snaps her neck when she realises the child has been forcefully corrupted by malleus who warps people onto her servants.
She's then captured by them, tortured into a confession, has all her gossamer hair removed before having her heart cut out due to consuming the kids soul she's now an undead lich of sorts that only an uncanny (A person of unique magical talent can destroy for good). Her crisps is interred in a tomb and Harken is sent to watch over the connings family to repent for what occurred. Malleus was sealed and dead for centuries having echOed her soul to her personal pocket denomination called the shadow lands.
Anyway she's awoken in the present and mind controls both the heroines best friend and ex boyfriend in to freeing her, eventually killing them when they've outrun their use and binding their souls to the shadowlands where their tormented.
She kidnaps the seven year old sister of heroine willow Jane and bends her to her will as she wants the heart go fully restore herself to full power. Willow teams up with Harken and they go to enhance it but Malleus reveals she plans to kill willow and Her sister since she plans to harvest her blood and soul as an uncanny to truly bring Herald to near ultimate power. Willow gets away with her sister as Harken sacrifices himself. Malleus has him tossed outside the window and sent hurtling to the street outside but he grabs her heart from her pocket as he's going down. Willow uses her powers to keep him away from death.
Anyway Malleus tracks them to the hospital that Willow put her sister in with full intent to kill them both. Harken and Willow lure her tongue basement where Harken is killed and she starts to consume his soul. Willow though offers a deal if she keys him pass on shell give her the stone as she could easily get away and Malleus is desperate. She giggles as she holds it and Her corpse face starts to return to beauty before boasting on how she's going to murder Willow painfully but willow learns Malleus' true method to destroy hee that her father taughter her from a poem......Gossamer. Gossamer aplenty it causes her lose to control as she becomes entranced by Tim it gives willow and advantage and the two now fight with the upper hand who beats Maaleus to death stopping her from putting the heart into her chest. Malleus is also bursting into tears and begging not to die.....after giggling about how she was kill her before this. Willow though know she's not genuine (which should be kinda obvious) and uses the gossamer to weaken her. She know cuts the gossamer threads in the light of shaodowldnss entrance which was the cavity of her chest. Malleus then dies as she's burns to ashes and all of her victims including Harken in the shaodlands (as well as willows sister whose soul had also been sent their. To clarity if the body of the victim is killed then it's death but if like willows sister their just corrupted, they can be saved but their souls are trapped in the shadowlands). All the other souls including Harken who were actually dead are allowed to enter heaven with Malleus gone.
No.
Other mitigating factors?
Oh harken she took him away from his mother when he was just a boy and turned him into a murdertooll. She treats him as expandable and was even cool killing him.
She is pure evil even Harken says so.
Example :
- She barely let willows sister go in the exchange while missing out the fact her soul is trapped in a realm so this was just an empty shell and Her victims die usually soon afterwards.
She's just a sadistic, cowardly, vain psycho wants everyone to bow down to her.
Heinous standard?
Let's see here murders hundreds of people and eats their souls. Starts the freaking salem witch trials. Killed a six year old and tries to kill a seven year old. Hard pass here.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Seo and Malleus
to Malleus
to Malleus.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read that tomorrow. Quick question about Criminal Minds: Is Control Freak in fact accurate for Foyet? I've not seen his eps.
Also, after I see Lucy's ep, I'll do a slight rewrite. She seems an easy keeper, but the writeup's a bit janky.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
@Sky: I also think it's a play on the word malice as well.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Wild Child
Shadowless.
to Malleus the Deceiver.
to Seo and the Shadowless
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Seo and Malleus.
As the guy who did Alex Zorgen's write-up let me try shortening it.
- Alex Zorgen runs a Human Trafficking ring that sells women to serial killers and other criminals online; at least 50 women have been killed by the ring's clients. He also abducted a woman whom he constantly raped and tortured for 22 years. Alex has his son, Kyle, stalk Kate Callahan's niece Meg starting from the season premiere "X" before having Kyle kidnap her in the season finale "The Hunt"; Alex would then kill Kyle when he fails to capture Meg's friend before selling Meg to his latest client.
Is it any better?
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 14th 2020 at 8:12:13 AM
Yes to Malleus, Seo Moon-Jo and Warlock.
I wonder if I should claim Picard, it is starting soon and the trailers make it look pretty dark, with some people calling it Old Man Picard. If anyone wants to help me, they can.
What is the work? Hell is Other People, also known as Strangers From Hell, is a fantastic and semi-philosophical Psychological Thriller based on the webcomic of same name. With Nature vs. Nurture as its Central Theme, the drama explores the life of Yoon Jong-Woo, an amateur writer who moves into a cheap dormitory, Eden Studio, to save some money. The people of Eden Studio are eccentric, to say the least, and it soon becomes apparent that living there could be a danger to his life, as they are all serial killers; Yoon's neighbors are: Eom Bok-Soon, Yoo Ki-Hyeok, Hong Nam-Bok, Byeon Deuk-Jong and Byeon Deuk-Soo, and finally...
Who is he? Once just another orphan under Eom's care, Seo Moon-Jo grew up to become evil personified. Introduced as a handsome, charismatic dentist and the Only Sane Man living in Eden Studio, Seo is not only the craziest character of the show, but he's also the de-facto leader of the killers; as a matter of fact, Seo is so Ax-Crazy that even his "brothers" are frightened of him and try to avoid pushing his buttons. A self-aware psychopath with Humans Are Bastards as his personal philosophy, Seo is a fan of The Metamorphosis and emulates the book by searching for people with latent psychopathy and sadistically turning them into his "masterpieces", aka monsters like him, in a meticulous process: "I dismantle, assemble, and recreate"; he was responsible for corrupting Yoo Ki-Hyeonk and adding him to the "family", but in his Establishing Character Moment, Seo strangles him to death for eliminating a detective without his approval, calling him a "failure" and planning on replacing him with Yoon. Continuously taking advantage of Yoon's own mental instability and manipulating his emotions to make him sink even deeper into insanity, Seo and his family always torture their victims, with him normally performing dental extractions without any sort of anesthetic for the sake of "art" and then leaving the others to finish the job, tasking his brothers with disposing of the bodies for him, and judging by his teeth collection, they have killing people for quite sometime; after their victims are killed, Seo creates "jewelry" by decorating rings or bracelets with the teeth that he pulled out and his favorite meat is heavily implied to be human remains, serving it Yoon and later another innocent man, Kang Sun-Woon.
After his "mother" kidnapped a woman and she managed to escape, Seo personally brings her back to Eden Studio to be killed, and it doesn't take long for Seo to execute another one of his brothers, Byeon Deuk-Soo, just for speaking loudly, threatening to kill anyone who tries to interfere with his work because "I love what I do" and forcing the other Byeon to swear that he loves what he does as well. Stalking Yoon and inspiring him to accept his inner darkness, Seo's influence drives him to beat up his rude co-worker and a couple of trouble-makers, Seo later murders Yoon's toxic boss (worsening his psychosis) and a journalist who could have exposed the serial killings. Using the sweet and innocent Kang as bait, Seo acknowledges that he tried his best, but removes his teeth and leaves him to die anyway. In the show's climax, Seo kidnaps Yoon's girlfriend and challenges him to kill his friend as his only way of saving her, eventually succeeding in breaking Yoon and promising to spare him on the condition that he massacres everyone else, including Seo's mother figure. After the rampage, Seo ironically falls victim to his own creation, he confesses that he doesn't need a motive to be an evil bastard because he's just following his primal human instincts and dies satisfied, stating "Honey, now you and I will be together forever". Yoon and his girlfriend escape alive, but Yoon's psychosis has taken control over him, Seo lives on through his masterpiece.
Mitigating Factors? Nope, he's pretty much a subversion of the "tragic Pretty Boy villain" seen in K-Drama. Considering the show is basically South Korea's Hannibal, there's a massive Homoerotic Subtext between Yoon and Seo, but Seo is only interested in grooming Yoon and twisting his mind, nothing genuine here. Seo also thinks of Eom as "special" and told a police officer that he sees her as a mother, his claims come across as part of his Mask of Sanity and he had no problem in throwing her under the bus. The only real issue is the show's Ambiguous Ending, the revelation that Yoon committed the massacre under Seo's influence is treated as a Plot Twist, except that leads us to a few plot holes as we previously witnessed the rampage from Seo's point of view, and the police has circumstantial evidence to prove he did it, but the memories of the survivors say otherwise, the title of the episode (Gaslighting) doesn't help either, this all points to the fact that Yoon literally became Seo; directly or indirectly, Seo was nevertheless responsible for everything that happened to Eden Studio.
Heinous? His only rival here is Eom, who killed her parents, two husbands and burned down her orphanage for monetary gain, but all of that falls under Offscreen Villainy. As the true mastermind behind the murders and the root of Yoon's psychosis, Seo is an easy pass.
Conclusion?![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")