During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Torquemada, however, clearly abandons any feelings he had for Candy. He loved her once, but when he had to choose between her or his genocidal ambitions, he never so much as flinches and never even thinks of her again.
If Torque died in volume 5 or 6, sure. But he casts aside any feeling for Candy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'll concede that. One more factor that I was gonna bring up (before reading the entry again) was his Freudian Excuse-which conveniently overlooks that he was a bigot even as a teenager.
Yeah, Torquemada was a fanatic nut as a teenager. His suffering in slavery certainly exacerbated matters, but the darkness was already there.
And frankly, he goes so ridiculously overboard, no excuse can be enough.
I was skeptical about Hans counting and I see now I wasn't wrong. Much like Lotso, I thought it was mainly because of all the hate he got for his MEH crossing. Unlike Lotso though, Hans acted out of desperation, not spite or cruelty. The way Sykes was was just how he did his business, nothing personal. As bad as he was, he never made it personal or went too far. At least until the end. He didn't seek to actively hurt anyone for pleasure.
Was Landa cut or did he never count in the first place? Just curious. I thought I remembered seeing an entry for him at some point.
If Fitzgerald had killed more people during or after his escape, might he have counted then? I think so.
Maybe. He might've.
Landa also showed genuine shock and horror at his side being killed
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Landa's an...interesting case. Besides him being Affably Evil, Inglourious Basterds RUNS on Black-and-Gray Morality, possibly even closer to Black-and-Black Morality than The Hateful Eight. Boy, Tarantino loves that trope, doesn't he?
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Lighty, I have started Blade of the Immortal. When will Shira appear?
Ohhhh. Like three or four volumes? I can't really recall. You'll know him when you see him
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, any works like Wolfsmund where a seriously despicable CM gets an appropriately gruesome death? No discretion shots, no simple headshots, but a suitably Cruel and Unusual Death for an utterly Complete Monster?
Also, a Torquemada expansion:
- Nemesis the Warlock: Tomas de Torquemada, "the ultimate incarnation of human evil", is the Grand Master of the Nazi-like Termight/Terran Empire, Nemesis's Arch-Enemy, and proof that, while some Aliens Are Bastards, Humans Are the Real Monsters. Even as a teenager, he wanted to kill aliens even before being enslaved for several years, a situation which only hardened his resolve. Currently, he rules humanity with the creed of " Be Pure! Be Vigilant! Behave!" Having seized control by usurping his own brother and locking him in a madhouse with a disfigured face, Torquemada leads campaigns that kill billions upon billions of aliens, and tortures and murders countless humans just for disagreeing with him, or just to make sure they're not aliens anyways; even his supposedly-beloved wife is basically discarded in favor of his crusade. He thinks nothing of having thousands of innocent people killed just to kill Nemesis, dismissing this as a "mere technicality." Torquemada provokes a war and sabotages peace between humanity and aliens so that he'll have an excuse to wipe them all out. Despite his rhetoric, Torquemada is a hypocrite who thinks nothing of using alien energies and life force to keep himself alive by murdering them. He also body jacks numerous victims. Even when sent to the past (where he puts a child in danger just to distract Nemesis, Torquemada's actions horrify even the original Torquemada, one of his earlier incarnations note , before Torquemada murders Nemesis's young son Thoth. When he overthrows a rival, Torquemada's murder of him is a torture far too graphic to be shown, and when overthrown it takes seven whole days for the list of charges to be read against him. Upon escaping, Torquemada attempts to activate his self-described "Final Solution": a bomb to annihilate all aliens and any human who has ever come into contact with one.
edited 22nd Jan '16 10:58:24 AM by ACW
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Hmm, there's a few. Blade of the Immortal, Majin Tanteu Neugami Neuro, Flame of Recca...
Mnemosyne and the Garo anime aren't deaths, but...well...same principle.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Any ones that I don't have to read online (or, in the case of Recca and Immortal won't break the bank?) (and don't have to be Manga...also open to regular comics or lit)? 
The Neuro one sounds could, and Sicks sounds quite bad...wish it'd get an official English translation 
What happens to Kouran Mori anyway?
edited 22nd Jan '16 11:11:05 AM by ACW
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You can get the BOTI omnibus volumes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You mean this? So it'll only cost me $200
You can get volume 1 of Blade of the Immortal on Amazon for $5.17 with $3.99 shipping & handling.
RIP Toriyama
Alright everyone, it having been two weeks since the latest Season of Dragons: Riders of Berk released on Netflix, I can discuss it (Spoilers will follow)
I, unfortunately, have to propose the most wicked villain of the series, Dagur the Deranged, be cut.
Here is his entry:
- Complete Monster: The fittingly-titled Dagur the Deranged is a gleefully violent madman who usurped control of the Berserkers by murdering his pacifist father Oswald the Agreeable, and shortly thereafter sought any means to incite a war. Dagur proceeds to backstab and try to murder nearly everyone he comes across, mostly for sick thrills, hurling knives at Hiccup and trying to kill his friends, electrocuting Alvin the Treacherous to near-death to seize his tribe, threatening to cut off the legs of one of his (disguised) henchmen, and taking early opportunities to hunt dragons, regardless of whether or not they could fight back. His tactics to destroy Berk include direct attacks, holding Stoick as a hostage, and driving tamed dragons into frenzies. After breaking out of prison three years after his initial defeat, Dagur perpetrates a massacre of an island village, wiping out the family of Heather (made worse due to the fact Heather is his sister) while continuing to act like a psychotic Yandere towards Hiccup and trying to kill men he's trading with with no apparent gain from it. Psychotic and wantonly violent, Dagur was the only truly irredeemable villain in the otherwise idealistic and fun series.
Now, in the new season, he is slowly revealed to genuinely care for his long-lost sister, Heather, threatening one of the other villains with death if he hurt her, and this culminates in him saving her life from the current Big Bad, when it would benefit him in zero way.
Unfortunately, really, as he was quite the sicko. But, it is what it is.
Thoughts?
edited 22nd Jan '16 1:09:28 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ugh, sounds like he may have to go. As an aside, if I watched that show, I'd be PISSED it was moving from basic cable.
And meanwhile, the DC page is gonna need ANOTHER subgroup.
edited 22nd Jan '16 1:28:57 PM by ACW
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Sad, but cut him
Messenger from another dimension.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Dagur, and good thing I never seen the show so the new revelation doesn't affect me as much as you guys.
Wild Child
I had wondered if Dagur cared for Heather. Since it appears to be so, I'd say cut him.
Why so serious?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Damn. >__< Guess Dagur's gotta be cut now.
I was going to bring up Dagur. And it has been two weeks, right?
Anyhow, as reluctant as I am, cut Dagur. I'll be keeping an eye on our new villain (Viggo) to see if he's more promising in the future. On another note, while it's of no worry now (the film doesn't release for a good few years), apparently Drago Bludvist will be returning for the third movie, and Word of God states he'll be a lot more complex than how was portrayed in his debut.
edited 22nd Jan '16 3:26:42 PM by Scraggle
Messenger from another dimension.
Than it looks like we will have to cut Drago too unless he will be Commodus-like complex.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Okay, here are some of Sat AM Robotnik's crimes that I think should be mentioned in his entry:
- In "Ultra Sonic", he tries to remove a large crystal, despite the fact that doing so would destroy the whole ecosystem.
- In "Hooked On Sonics", he drops a SWAT Bot to its doom after it fails him.
- In "Sonic's Nightmare", he tries to pollute the skies and cause acid rain.
- In "Blast To The Past", it is shown that he tried to roboticize the Freedom Fighters when they were children, and taunted Uncle Chuck about how he was using his creation (the roboticizer) for evil.
- In the final episode, "Doomsday Project", he abandons his nephew Snively and leaves him to die when his base explodes.
On the second, yes, and I'll even accept he didn't care for his kids (though if someone made that argument I wouldn't really be opposed either), but there's the bit about "he would have to put aside his personal grief...but it wouldn't be the same. Nothing would be the same again. He'd destroyed the one person he'd ever loved." Right before he married Sister Sturn (by the way, SS? Real subtle there![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
The teleporters HAVE to be reminiscent of the gas chambers. Too much alike not to be).
edited 22nd Jan '16 8:37:48 AM by ACW
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