During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to darren
No to Pew, yes to Evil Ash and Darren. Let's let Lighty do it Ordeaux, if I wanted a trim I can do those myself but he's actually seen it and wrote it.
Anyways, well I can't sleep I'll do this.
What's the work?
The Corruptor is a dark cop action film following Chinese Officer Nick Chen who keeps a lid on the troubles with gangs in China Town as one of the few Asian cops and making deals with the more benevolent criminals. Things get shaken up as a rival gang encroaches on the peaceful one Chen works with and he's assigned seemingly rookie officer Danny Wallace. Within a layer of lies we get two villains to talk about.
Who are Henry Lee and Bobby Vu? What have they done?
The film opens with Vu's men of the violent Fukiense Dragons gang bombing a restaurant and violently murdering a man in the more peaceful Tung Fung Benevolent Association. While Vu throws empty words of brotherhood at his men to have them aggress and slaughter cops after his attempt to extort a business is foiled by Chen, Lee is second in command of the Tung Fung and schemes to have their kind-hearted leader, "Uncle" Benny, killed so he may rule. The two also start molding Wallace to take Chen's place as their police mole with their plan to kill Chen as well.
To give their pawn favor in the force, Lee tips Wallace off to a brothel run by Vu, where women are forced to perform on camera and murdered to be dumped on the streets should they try to leave, with over 40 rescued during the bust, while the rest of their hedged criminal empire flourishes. To lure out Chen, they have their men fight in the open streets, graphically half-a-dozen civilians along the way. Setting up Uncle Bobby to be seen going to speak to the FBI, Vu and his me roll out with info from Lee to go assassinate the kindly old gangster.
Well the heroes hope to set up a conviction for Vu and his men a government representative pushes for trying to catch a shipment Lee, having realized Wallace is really an Internal Affairs agent, plots to sacrifice Vu and his men to escape the clutches of the law. Tipping off both Chen and Wallace to eliminate his problems, the two storm the boat where Vu and his men go to pick up the cargo and we see what he and Lee agreed to split on for profit: hundreds of humans being brought in for unclear but cruel purposes, given the brothel we saw earlier. Vu even shoots through one while trying to kill Chen and Wallace, mortally wounding the former before being killed himself.
At this point Wallace, sick of Lee having kept his hooks in both, personally leads his arrest and ending their outfit.
Heinousness?
They're remarkably nasty for street-level action villains: attacking in public to get at targets and murdering innocents, plus the whole trafficking and sex work business and gruesomely killing the women who flee. Their operation seems to be of such a vast scope both are willing to see a brothel with dozens of girls get thrown to the cops leaves horrific implication to the size of their prostitution ring, even setting aside all the murders.
Mitigating factors?
Vu preaches loyalty and respect but doesn't bat an eye while his men are killed by the dozens, even betraying the brothel pimps alongside Lee. In terms of personality Vu's a swaggering, sadistic lunatic while Lee's a slimy business-type feigns kindness offering to pay for Wallace's father's medical bills if he'll "do favors" but it's obvious he's a greedy sociopath out for himself.
Bobby Vu also seems to be something of an Unwitting Pawn to Lee's final attempt to kill Wallace but Dragon or Big Bad Duumvirate they may be—the film mostly treats them as the latter—they're still shoulder-to-shoulder for crimes and both easily stand out.
Verdict?
A keep for my latest duo.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Henry Lee and Bobby Vu
Henry and Bobby
to the Mother, Damon, Norman Osborn, Evil Ash, Darren, Henry Lee and Bobby Vu.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Pew.
Yes to Evil Ash, and two more fine Heroic Bloodshed keepers 
Yes to Bad Ash god I forgot a lot of that stuff. I need to rewatch that film, only seen it once.
Yes to Damon as well. Ladies and Gentlemen: we got 'em - 'em being a keep for NMH.
Yes to Norman as well. The thing with Norman, while his comic incarnation is a CM, he didn't start off that way. He wasn't a good person, but he was still tragic with how the Goblin took him over. It was after his resurrection that he embraced his villainy completely. So I imagine a lot of the adaptations are drawing from his original portrayal rather than his contentious characterisation after coming back. Doesn't help he got retconned as the true mastermind of the Clone Saga, and the less said about that the better.
And yes to 43110'a duo and Darren as well.
Goku Black
Evil Ash, 43's duo, Dareen (Guess Dee gets an expansion. Mass slaughter of parallel worlds.....)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Damon; Norman; Evil Ash; Darren; 43's duo.
I'm guessing Lighty's "Works for me" refers to Ordeaux's rewrite.
Norman.
Darren.
Lee and Vu.
Evil Ash. I knew he'd be coming up the minute I heard there was gonna be some Evil Dead candidates incoming.
Well as I said it was if Lighty wanted to do it. I'm quite capable of trimming myself if it's in the air and can condense it quite a bit more easily:
- The Following: Professor Joseph "Joe" Carroll is a Serial Killer and falsely charming cult leader corrupting other killers. With a massive number of bodies behind him, Joe even raises his own son to become a murderer and tries to kill his ex-wife when she interferes. When his cult is dismantled Joe joins another one, killing their leaders and taking over to twist even more into following him in the ways of killing and ushering in yet another spree. When a televangelist outs him on his show Joe takes revenge by kidnapping the man's son as well as a church full of people and forces the televangelist to kill an innocent woman before slitting his throat. Attempting one final escape after his arrest, Joe kidnaps a group of people and threatens to kill them lest hero Ryan Hardy admit he loves killing as much as Joe does.
Showtime!
to Ash, Lee and Vu
Hello, It's me again. How's about considering Aldrich Killian from Iron Man 3?
The Moron
He was discussed extensively - by me, in fact - and ultimately flunks the standard no matter how deeply we look at him. As much as I'd love for him to count (and as it is he's still scraping the standard with his teeth), his final plan is a bit too vague and Crossbones activating Insight murders his chances.
Also, you already asked this and got the exact same response, so I don't know why you're asking again.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 16th 2021 at 10:00:21 AM
I wasn't sure if you responded before. Sorry.
Yes to Darren and hell yes to Bad Ash, been wondering about him for a long time since I love the movie but I thought potential agency issues would hold him back. Seeing it all laid out though I'm definitely a thumbs-up for him.
Darren, Lee and Vu, Evil Ash
Professor Gigachad
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Anyone know if the Helsing comic which Van Helsing (2016) is based on is from Grimm Fairy Tales? I wanna make sure, so I know whether to add
- Van Helsing (2016) can be found here.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Good enough for me.
Edited by ACW on Sep 16th 2021 at 10:58:23 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
The official zenoscope website says it is
Bad Ash, (funny thing, I just got done watching The Kill Count’s Army of Darkness video, definitely needed more blood but I was satisfied), Red King, & The Corrupter duo.
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 16th 2021 at 7:55:39 AM
Professor Gigachad
I am wondering why aren't we including Van Helsing (2016) on the actual Grimm Fairy Tales page and are instead linking to it, I understand it for Marvel and DC but I don't get why this one.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 16th 2021 at 7:58:02 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Non-Goody-Two-Shoes Ash, the Third Red King, Lee and Vu, and honestly? Pew does seem nasty enough to me for a kids’ talking animal show baddie.
@Cartoon I also responded and said he just BARELY missed it too.
Bad Ash is also Bruce Campbell? Dumb question.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 16th 2021 at 8:09:00 AM
Setting?
Justice League of America Classified. From the The Fourth Parallel Story Arc.
The Justice League beats Dr Destiny, but one of his captured victims manage to find his ruby, the Materioptikon. Ruin ensues...
Who is Darren Proffit, The Red King (of the Third Parallel World)
After obtaining the Materioptikon, Darren uses it to improve his life, with his own process to pick realities endangering time and space, something that worries even the now sealed Dee himself.
Becoming rich with that. Dee makes a proposal to Darren
If he can do all possibilities, he should try World Domination. It's not like he has a single chance?
The end result is a constant purge of possible worlds leaving only three. Since this point, all the following Red Kings are treated as separated characters for the narrative.
...Alternate Universes are a thing...
Eventually, this fragile balance collapse as the Second Red King is captured by Batman, who forces his to confess.
The Third Red King, which is now the de facto leader murders his counterpart, surprising Dee himself, who thought that they would merge instead.
Oh. Also, his Dragon is...Himself. a Darren from a world where he kept things the same to create a Fourth Parallel as a Reset Buttom. This Darren, who openly calls out his counterpart in that not every Darren had to be so selfish, is murdered by the Red King of the Third Parallel, who doesn't want to "go back to be a loser".
The Justice League of the Second Parallel decides to restore reality to normality even by sacrificing their own reality. Taking advantage that Dee manages to tell Batman the real nature of the Red King by muttering his name in his jail on Arkham.
Discovered, The Third Red King absorbs his First Parallel self, which is described as a "Troyan Horse of emotions", which makes him hesitate when fighting Wonder Woman.
Ultimately, he is tricked for the heroes into a trap where he is dragged away to the dimension inside of the Materioptikon, which is broken by Wonder Woman.
Sealed there and searching for a way to escape, Dr Destiny mocks Darren and prepares to torture him in a world where Darren is nothing more that a Pawn
Heinous standard
Many. Many destroyed worlds in a constant purge to get his Golden Ending.
Even inside of those worlds, the Red King murders his Justice League in extremely cruel ways, destroying entire cities to catch Batman and Plastic Man in the explosion.
Mitigant traits?
Darren is selfish. Eventually, all Darren develop something mitigant. Either some genuine affect for Wonder Woman, regret for his acts or even genuine moral repulsion of his crimes.
But the Red King of the Third Parallel?
Nada.
Heck, a very telling scene right at the start of the story arc? He fantasizes about dating a waitress, only to then say that he would replace her for a actress and then realizing that one of his selves has a chance to date Wonder Woman, which makes him say "ditch the actress!".
He openly treats his other selves as minions that he can abuse at will.
He is also a obvious Attention Whore, he does want World Domination and the reason why he destroyed his dimension after dominating it is because he realized that he preferred to be a Villain with Good Publicity that the Evil Overlord that rules with Fear.
He is that needy
Verdict
You decide. Also, lol he is on a page about DC Villains that are ENF Ps. Amazing
And Dee keeps. WE REALLY NEED to add the fact that he deliberately encouraged this bastard to jump from Save Scumming to Mass murder with aims to World Domination
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 16th 2021 at 2:54:19 PM
Watch me destroying my country