Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Okay, so a major fantasy franchise I've never touched before...
What's the work? Magic: The Gathering is one of the biggest card games on the planet and has a fuck ton of lore. Now, we've got pretty much all the big candidates including my fave— Liliana Vess— already covered. For a much more minor candidate, however? Let's talk the Gothic Horror plane of Innistrad, and its most monstrous expansion...
Who is the werewolf? What does she do? A scarred werewolf who is first seen watching the Heron's Grace orphanage in which the corrupt headmaster, Jerren, abuses the children. Jerren's constant threats and violence toward the children, particularly a disabled child who he cruelly tells "You cannot hide behind that crutch," do not go unnoticed. After he threatens the boy for dropping apples by hoisting him over the wall and offering him to the werewolves, Jerren invites a doctor into the orphanage to tend to the poor boy, telling her to make it quick. The doctor asks the boy if he wants her help to resolve her problem. The boy says yes.
Jerren returns in the middle of the night, intent to terrorize the children yet again, only to find them unafraid this time... and they slowly rise up, every one of their eyes red and glowing... and my, my, what big teeth they have. As Jerren desperately clings to the boy's crutch in the hopes of defending himself, he is met with a single response:
You cannot hide behind that crutch.
Is the doctor magnificent?
Yeah, I'd say she's certainly got some brilliance to her. For what little we get of this extremely short trailer, she's shown to have her eye on the orphanage and manages to infiltrate it by pretending to be a doctor, along with using her calm and polite demeanor to convince the children to let her turn them. Not to mention that the entire thing is her brutal delivery of a Karmic Death to Jerren, who more than deserves it— and when she infiltrated the orphanage herself and could've killed him, the fact she sets him up to die at the hands of his own victims is doubly delicious.
Is she bad?
Look, Jerren is an Asshole Victim and she's 100% dishing out poetic justice but... yeah, she's a werewolf who gives no indication to be opposed to the other werewolves' brutality, and she's more than willing to turn the children into werewolves— which is explicitly a pretty horrible fate in Innistrad— to pull it off. She's ominous and enigmatic with her intentions but it's pretty hard to read turning children into literal monsters, whether it's to pay back an abusive bastard or not, as a heroic act.
She does ask the child if he wants her help to deal with Jerren, but there's little indication that said kid fully knows what he's agreeing to and, in any case, she turns children into fucking werewolves and sets things up so that they'll viciously eat a man. We're good here.
Conclusion?
Despite the short length, I think we've got a yes.
RIP Toriyama
Sure there!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Lies and Violence!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Sue, Teddy, Neo, Fisk, and the werewolf.
Keeping this one short and sweet.
What's the work?
Ultimate Spider-Man (the comic, not the cartoon) was a popular series starring Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man himself, in an alternate universe where every other superhero was a raging asshole.
Of his many reimagined foes, the one to get the most frequently adapted change was Venom, who, instead of an alien, was rather a living symbiotic parasite created by Peter's dad. Bonding to Eddie Brock, Venom set out to, what else, ruin Peter's life. Unfortunately for him, a living super-suit is a very attractive commodity for the supervillain community.
Who is the Beetle?
A Latverian mercenary in service to Doctor Doom, the Beetle is sent to retrieve a sample of the Venom symbiote from the evil mega corporation Roxxon. Getting into a fight with Spidey, he shows off his suit's awesome abilities—super speed flight, tracking lasers, and phasing—but is unable to retrieve enough of the symbiote.
Fortunately, there's always the main source to steal it from. After Bolivar Trask hires Silver Sable to capture Eddie, Beetle breaks in, gases everyone with knockout gas, and releases Venom, slicing off one of his tentacles when he tries to attack. A massive fight ensues, the symbiote briefly latches onto Peter, but Beetle again manages to escape after the possessed Spidey flings him into the night sky.
Shenanigans ensue, Eddie gets the symbiote back and merges with it to become a part-sludge creature himself, and begins hanging out in the park, where he's approached by an average-looking, middle-aged guy. Eddie explains his life story, and, when it gets to the point where he reveals he's a cannibalistic monster, he naturally attacks the man...
Who immediately sucks him into a high-tech container device, revealing himself to be the Beetle and flying back to Latveria with the sludgified Eddie/Venom in tow.
Mitigating factors?
Minor Arc Villain in the grand scheme things, but shows himself off as a badass Boba Fett expy in what little page time he has. His suit is awesome with tons of neat tricks, he always manages to escape with a draw at worst, and ultimately succeeds with flying colors in tricking and trapping his prey.
The Beetle.
Edited by Echidna on Jun 24th 2023 at 12:32:09 PM
Sure to Beetle
Gotta love Jaws!
to Jack, Slick, Sue, Teddy, Neo, Kingpin, the werewolf and the Beetle.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Cyrus.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Werewolf and Beetle
To the Warewolf and Beetle
to Teddy, the werewolf, both Spider-Man characters, and especially Neo.
Edited by TheLaurelCrownedRaven on Jun 25th 2023 at 9:36:33 AM
Not the Eye
To Kingpin, Werewolf and Beetle
Goku Black
beetle and werewolf.
Beetle and the werewolf
Beetle, The Werewolf.
Edited by jjjj2 on Jun 25th 2023 at 1:25:41 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
to the Beetle and Neopolitan.
Yes to the werewolf and the Beetle.
If you think Black Suit is the only one who can qualify you would be wrong as I have found more than 5 potential candidates that can qualify for this trope. Trust me when the story goes on there will be more I will introduce for now.
What's The Work
Blue Archive is a mobile game created by Nexon Games and it was released in 2021. It follows the player as they go around investigating criminal activities around the school with some evil-doer causing mayhem or worse.
Who is She? What Has She Done?
Rio Tsukatsuki acts as the "Big Sister," after Alice arrives. She has the desire to analyze Alice, while Himari, also observing Alice, holds contrasting views due to their opposing natures. Rio sees Alice as a potential weapon of armageddon, while Himari finds her to be an endearing underclassman. The disagreement between Rio and Himari escalates, leading Rio to deploy her personal army, AMAS, against Himari. However, Himari manages to outwit Rio and escape, unaware of Rio's secret bodyguard, who quickly subdues her.
She decides to send AMAS and Neru to capture Alice. Disapproving of this plan, Neru attempts to retaliate but is swiftly stopped by Toki. Helpless, Alice, Neru, and Sensei can only watch as Rio whisks Alice away to Eridu. News of Alice's abduction spreads throughout Millennium, causing shock and disbelief among the residents. Determined not to stand idly by, everyone rallies together to devise a plan to infiltrate Eridu and rescue Alice. Yuuka uncovers Rio's embezzlement of funds from the Seminar, infuriating her as the treasurer.
With the collective effort of the Millennium community, they manage to overcome Rio's defenses, including Toki's Power-suit System Abi-Eshuh, designed by Rio to counteract the Kivotos apocalypse. Rio is left powerless, forced to witness Sensei and the others attempting to retrieve Alice. However, as they work to reclaim Alice, her demeanor changes, and she falls under the control of Eridu. Rio is astonished to witness her stronghold, built to prevent the apocalypse, now under the control of what she had believed to be the very apocalypse she sought to avert. Fortunately, Sensei and the group succeed in breaking "Alice's" control and restoring her to her normal state. Rio's perception of the world shatters as the events defy the data and calculations she relied on. Once the immediate aftermath settles, Rio resigned from her position as the president of the Seminar. Yuuka rushes to Rio's office, only to find an apology letter from her and remorse for the actions she caused.
Is She Magnificent?
Defiantly. She is proven to be a great manipulator and genius in her position as the leader of the seminar who is willing to do anything to save Kivotos from danger. It's also pretty hard not to understand why she's doing these actions and coming after Aris. It's pretty much due to Aris being programmed as an omnicidal AI even after rejecting her programming believing she would be a danger to everyone. She is proven to also be capable of hacking into systems and becoming one step ahead of her situation putting everyone at her feet. It also helps that she's able to plan various outcomes even when adjusting her plans to action all to achieve her goal of stopping danger.
Is She Too Much of a Baddie?
She earned the ire of the other seminar members and her special forces, C&C, for wanting to destroy Aris Tendou, who posed no threat to them for whatever reason, simply because it was an Omnicidal A.I. She is also very self-righteous, so when problems arise, she tries to decide and implement solutions without properly discussing them with others, and she creates too many enemies around her with her self-righteous rationalization that everyone will understand later, even if she is criticized for it.
Despite all this, the main reason why she did this was only so she could prevent the destruction of Kivotos given what was happening across the series and she isn't a vile person who takes her actions too far rather than anything. She also comes across as a complete hero after her redemption, regretting the fact that she tried to destroy Aris and entrusting Aris with her future destiny despite being an A.I. who was supposed to be an omnicidal maniac from her programming. All of this makes her a well-intended extremist at the end of the day. It also helps that this series has way worse villains who outclassed Rio in terms of crimes so that's a plus in my eyes.
Final Verdict
Your choice as always.
Edited by Echidna on Jun 25th 2023 at 3:27:50 PM
to Kinder Creep, James Dean, Wilhelmina, Frankie, Riley Richards, Lilith, George Monro, Christopher Gist, Tracy Lawless, Jack Weeks, Slick, Teddy, Neopolitan, Kingpin, the Werewolf, the Beetle and Rio Tsukatsuki.
Rio. Had been waiting for this as much as how ridiculous it would sound. Surprising since she gets Draco'd a lot.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jun 25th 2023 at 4:28:56 PM
to Rio
Okay here are my write-ups:
- Assassin's Creed Rogue:
- George Monro is a colonel serving in the British Army and one of the most dedicated members of the Templar Order. Discovering the wounded Assassin, Shay Cormac, Monro has Shay rescued and nursed back to health before formally introducing himself. The two would gradually retake New York from the Assassin-align gangs and rebuild it for the Templars, with Monro influencing Shay to ally with his side and supporting their cause as they continue to work together. When Monro is surrounded by French and Assassins forces, Monro surrenders Fort William Henry to them to protect his soldiers before retreating to Albany, where he prepares for their next attack. Though killed by the Assassins, Monro’s words and kindness inspire Shay to officially join the Templars, and eradicate the Assassins from the American Colonies in Monro’s name.
- Christopher Gist is a brilliant explorer, surveyor, and frontiersman working for the Templar Order, using his expertise to expand their influence throughout the American colonies and secure alliances with the indigenous people. Gist also manipulates fellow explorer James Cook into helping Gist in this task. Assigned by Monro to infiltrate Fort Arsenal, which is controlled by the Assassin-aligned gangs, Gist gets rescued by Shay Cormac, after which the two fend off the gangs before taking Fort Arsenal as their hideout, where Gist then helps Shay reclaim his ship, The Morrigan. Gathering a crew for Shay, Gist gets recruited as Shay’s first-mate, resulting Gist reveals his allegiance with the Templars to Shay a year later and his willingness to kill Shay if he refused to join. Gist also helps Shay track down the Assassins to ensure that they are completely eradicated from the Colonies.
- Jack Weeks grew up being an elusive pickpocket thief until Christopher Gist, impressed by Weeks’ skill, introduces him to the Templars. Rising up the ranks to become the Templars’ smart guy, Weeks helps Shay Cormac rescue George Monro and his forces from Kesegowaase’s ambush and prepare for Kesegowaase’s upcoming attack at Albany, while also formulating a plan to dismantle Hope Jensen’s criminal empire in New York. This plan involves Weeks and Shay disguising themselves as Hope’s gang members before stealing British soldiers’ salaries while framing the Assassins for the heist, causing the British Army to eradicate Hope’s gang from New York, allowing Shay to kill Hope and learn of Achilles Davenport’s expedition to the Arctic Circle, where Shay goes to kill his remaining Assassins there.
Goku Black
Rio.
@Echnida If no one else reserved them, then go for it.
@G well mir, Ravok—who has one he wants to do—and I at least. Not sure about anyone else.
@~Ravok If you want to get to yours from SVU, I'm definitely excited for that particular character to go up. Whenever you're ready though of course
I wanted to do a rundown on any and all scenes where Gwen would be deemed too unhinged and why I don't think they hurt her, but it can wait though.
Time for another Law & Order candidate from the original series—potentially two separate ones from this episode—and not just one. The other will come probably after another rewatch though—and while this one's not perfect, it's pretty close to the way things played out when I rewatched the episode this past week:
- Work: Law & Order is a 1990 classic Crime Drama show that ran until 2010 for 20 seasons and just wrapped its 22nd recently after returning last year too. Its focus is very simple: one half of the show is devoted mostly to detectives investigating a crime of some kind (more often than not, murder) and the second half involves the DA appointed ADAs handling the suspect's trial. One of my all-time favorite shows and now we discuss Season 13's "Hitman".
- Who/What: Tony Rosatti is a mob contractor:
- killed by a hitman, but it turns out he was behind the one who did it.
- Rosatti having discovered his wife Sherri cheated on him with construction worker Randy Porter
- plants the money and evidence that frames them for his murder
- before he does indeed hire his own killer so they'll both go to prison—in which they turn on each other during the trial too—
- and uses money borrowed from associate "Bobby Vig" Vignerelli as a means of funding it—
- though Rosatti also filmed a video prior to his death in which he details everything so that Bobby Vig won't be blamed for any of it.
- Even with his final fate being his own demise—and that being the plan,
- Rosatti still goes to the grave with the satisfaction that he'd gotten the chance for a shot at "sweet" revenge—
- and either way, Sherri gets nothing not just because of her affair, but because Rosatti left everything to Bobby Vig too.
- Magnificent: While he was bleeding money and had made poor business choices too—as well as alienated both his ex-wife and son, Rosatti proves himself undeniably smart when it comes to concocting the scheme that proves his swan song and magnum opus—to punish his wife and her lover; have his final debt settled; keep the truth of him being the mastermind out of it and make sure Bobby Vig not only gets no blame, but everything else too—as well as the money he owed him—while his wife even still gets nothing (and basically pulls a Cassie Thomas years before she does by having it all accomplished after his death too).
- Bastard/Too Much: He works for the mob and resorted to Disproportionate Retribution to punish his wife and her lover for an affair by framing them for murder (which they both hypothetically did discuss at one point, but neither was serious), but he never got so petty or cruel in what he did though ultimately, especially with the prepared contingency in that he made sure he not only got what he wanted in death, but prepared for something that didn't go right to be handled exactly how he wanted it to be too (and in death, gets a Take That!; Taking You with Me and Face Death with Dignity all in rapid succession).
- Verdict: I say .
Preemptive Writeup:
- Tony Rosatti is a mob contractor killed by a hitman, but it turns out he was behind the hitman who did it. Rosatti having discovered his wife Sherri cheated on him with construction worker Randy Porter plants the money and evidence that frames them for his murder before he does indeed hire his own killer so they'll both go to prison—in which they turn on each other during the trial too—and uses money borrowed from associate "Bobby Vig" Vignerelli as a means of funding it—though Rosatti also filmed a video prior to his death in which he details everything so that Bobby Vig won't be blamed for any of it. Even with his final fate being his own demise—and that being the plan, Rosatti still goes to the grave with the satisfaction that he'd gotten the chance for a shot at "sweet" revenge—and either way, Sherri gets nothing not just because of her affair, but because Rosatti left everything to Bobby Vig too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 25th 2023 at 4:42:23 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Rio and Tony.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Teddy, the One, Fisk.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid