Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
emperors: To be fair, I'm not worried about someone like Tarkin. It's ones like Krennic who worry me.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
I think it is more complicated than Rampart just following orders. Don’t get me wrong, he is absolutely disposable cog when all is said and done. But at the same time he is in charge of the project which is about to replace Clones and as we learn preparing for getting rid of Kamino.
While Tarkin does have role in it, show ultimately points to Rampart as the person most responsible for the end of Kamino.
While Gideon is more free and personal with his villiany, destruction of Kamino is more than stand together with destruction of Mandalore.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 2nd 2023 at 10:55:03 AM
I'm gonna delay on Rampart for the moment. I'd posted about doing Ten Commandments a few days ago with Dathan in mind, so no issues giving him a yes here.
- Sleeping Dogs: Sonny Wo is a perverted executive and a key member of the Sun Yee On Triads. Namely, Sonny handles supplying the prostitution industry, having aspiring starlets trafficked to Big Smile Lee to become forced sex slaves. Sonny makes "deals" with teens to sleep with older men while he watches in return for their carees, but in the case of Vivienne Lu he continuously prostitutes them out for favors or rewards. Singers who displease, argue with, or simply fail Sonny's expectations are sent to become prostitutes.
- Deus Ex: Walton Simons, director of FEMA and the brutal right hand of Bob Page, is a stoic and emotionless killer who initiates martial law with a crackdown that sees many innocents dead or imprisoned. Poisoning New York's water supply to initiate rationing, Simons uses his transports as cover to spread the Gray Death plague to civilians. Wiping out the NSF rebels and personally executing hostages, Simons spares little effort to hunt down JC Denton when he goes rogue, sending out one agent to die simply becuase he finds the man mourning his partner annoying.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Alrighty, here's the penultimate Hooker proposal.
Who is He?
George Laszlo, from Season 3’s "The Cheerleader Murder", is the owner of the Black Star club who doubles as a porno producer: specifically for "Teeny Bops".
What has he done?
Having porno director Miles Dickson scout for teenage girls, Laszlo has them addicted to drugs so that they’ll keep coming back to his porn studio to shoot more movies in return for more drugs. All of this results in their latest star Gloria having to get an illegal abortion and later dying via overdosing on drugs, Laszlo has Dickson scout out another actress for his shoots.
But when Hooker gets involved, Laszlo has a guy killed, then has abortion doctor Dr. Garwood murdered when he tries to skip town, since he was involved in Gloria's abortion.
Upon the capture of Dickson, who spills the beans on Laszlo's involvement as his boss, Laszlo tries to run leave everyone behind as he makes his escape, but fails, and gets arrested for his troubles.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
While there are some pornographers on the show (two others to be exact), they don't make underaged teen porn like Laszlo, essentially making all of Laszlo's movies child pornography that he cruelly manipulates teenagers to participate in, uncaring about what happens to them.
Laszlo's willing to murder his associates to cover up his crimes, and will save his own skin when things go to hell. Compared to other pornographers, Laszlo stands out as the worst of the bunch.
Conclusion
I think Laszlo's also a keep
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, he seems like a keep.
Lighty: Simons goes after Page, and both of them are only in the first game, right?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, sure there. And yes, that's correct
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Rampart. He just doesn't stand out nearly enough.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Laszlo.
Rawr.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Peter, you writing up Magneto?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Lazslo
Changing it to Rampart
to Lazslo
Goku Black
Laslo.
Abstain on Rampart. Maybe we should see if he gets any more
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Laszlo.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Kingdom Hearts series: Vanitas is a Darkness born faceless who despised his existence, leading him to gain negative energy and become the χ-Blade. Vanitas decides to destroy the Unversed to become even stronger as time goes on. Vanitas confronts Van so he can kill them but is saved by his friend Mikey. Vanitas goes after Aqua and Van to kill them after their encounter before he leaves them after revealing his face to have Sora. Vanitas freed Randall to gain more negative energy from children to further his goal. Vanitas reveals he created the Unversed and sends everyone to various worlds to wreak havoc and send many enemies to them such as Heartless before attempting to destroy the universe with the help of Xehanort.
- Deus Ex:
- Bob Page is a former member of the Council of Five—the ruling body of The Illuminati— and a protégé of the leader Morgan Everett. Consumed with a lust for power, Page abandoned the Illuminati to strike out on his own. He invented a nanovirus via robots to kill as many people as possible and shows a willingness to have any failures eliminated. Page would even use nuclear weapons to get his way, in his plan to throw the world into chaos to pave the way for him as a messiah and a world leader. Page's ultimate goal is to merge with AI Helios and become a God, declaring "Let it spill over into the schools and churches, let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to save them."
- Walton Simons, Director of FEMA and the brutal right hand of Bob Page, is a stoic and emotionless killer who initiates Martial Law with a crackdown that sees many innocents dead or imprisoned. Poisoning New York's water supply to initiate rationing, Simons uses his transports as cover to spread the Gray Death plague to civilians. Wiping out the NSF rebels and personally executing hostages, Simons spares little effort to hunt down JC Denton when he goes rogue, sending out one agent to die simply because he finds the man mourning his partner annoying.
- Henry "Big Smile" Lee is the vicious Sun On Yee Red Pole—senior member—in charge of getting girls addicted to drugs then roping them into prostitution and pornography to support their habit. In order to expand his power within the Triad, Lee engineered a civil war within the Sun On Yee between Dogeyes's Jade Gang and Winston Chu's Water Street Gang, which culminated in an attack on Winston Chu's wedding, leading to the deaths of Winston Chu, his bride, Peggy Li, and eventually Uncle Po, the head of the Triad. In addition to his prostitution racket, Lee is also known for sending his horrifying enforcer, Liu Shen Tong—better known as Mr. Tong—after his enemies. Finding out Wei Shen is an undercover cop, he has Wei's best friend, Jackie Ma, Buried Alive, and while Wei manages to save him, Jackie is still tortured and disemboweled by Mr. Tong on Lee's orders. Lee also has Wei tortured himself, planning on the torture lasting for days before having Wei buried alive as well. Known for responding with overwhelming brutality even in the face of mere annoyances, Big Smile Lee is one of the most feared and despised Sun On Yee members in the city, even among his fellow gang members.
- Liu Shen Tong, aka "Mr. Tong", is a dreaded interrogator and enforcer for the Sun On Yee. Feared for his cruel methods of murdering spies and traitors, Tong kills undercover cop Charles Ho by brutally torturing him and burying him alive to finish him off. Helping "Big Smile" Lee kill those in his gang who don't support his rise to power, Tong kidnaps Wei's friend Jackie Ma in an attempt to bury him alive, but after he's rescued by Wei, Tong kidnaps Jackie again to disembowel him and hang his corpse up for Wei to see. With Wei in his grasp, Tong expresses cold joy at getting to torture him to death, hoping to break his record of 48 hours.
- Sonny Wo is a perverted executive and a key member of the Sun On Yee. Namely, Sonny handles supplying the prostitution industry, having aspiring starlets trafficked to Big Smile Lee to become forced sex slaves. Sonny makes "deals" with teens to sleep with older men while he watches in return for their careers, but in the case of Vivienne Lu he continuously prostitutes them out for favors or rewards. Singers who displease, argue with, or simply fail Sonny's expectations are sent to become prostitutes.
Current mood: sick of your shit
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That Vanitas writeup could use work. Lots of spelling errors and simple sentences.
Goku Black
Please take that Vanitas entry to get help. Like its just written strangely.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think that was Echidna's.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I am still gonna work on it, especially on the grammar so my apologies to everyone.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, I won't swap Disney yet.
Also, I think I'll use Venus's suggestion for the Pretty Cure page:
In a bright, colorful world where the villains can redeem themselves, there are several that are so heinous that they are beyond redemption.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay so here is the write up for Bleylock. (Sorry if it's too long though)
- Galactik Football: Bleylock is a General of Technoid who desires to rule the galaxy. Fifteen years before series events, he had Clamp and Sonny Blackbones develop synthetic Flux called The Metaflux, which is undetectable and would allow Bleylock to rule the galaxy. Once Clamp and Sonny realized the dangers of the Metaflux, they attempted to flee with the Metaflux to dispose it only to get attacked by Bleylock's ships. This caused Metaflux to drop on Akillian causing the Ice Age .After he saw Snow Kids using the Flux against the Red Tigers, Bleylock later tracks down and abducts Clamp and forces him to gather Metaflux by injecting microphone and deadly poison inside his body. Later when Pirates managed to save Clamp and retrieve the Metaflux, Bleylock orders Technoids to kidnap D'Jok and wants Sonny to hand over Metaflux in exchange of his son safety. When the trade becomes successful, Bleylock imprisons Sonny and threatens D'Jok to kill his father unless he made the Snow Kids lose the finals. When Pirates with Technoids help going after Bleylock to free Sonny, Beylock later attempts to kill Sonny and shot his right-hand Baldwin after he was forced to reveal Bleylock's plans. Years later after fall, Bleylock with help of his subordinates creates "Netherball" sphere which absorbs the fluxes of many football players, creating The Multiflux. When Pirates found that Bleylock is still alive and managed to get close to him, Bleylock then launches Multiflux at the Shadow Archipelago, destroying Smog. He then frames Sonny by dropping wrecked parts of his ship. When Sonny and Corso chase him, Bleylock escapes with the ship and attempts to destroy Genesis with the Multiflux device, which was his initial plan.
Edited by DonutKnow on Apr 2nd 2023 at 10:45:09 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, that's a bit lengthy.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, I'll have my write-up for Magneto later today. It's been a busy week for me.
The Draftsman of Doom
Holding off on Rampart. Take the time you need, Pete.
Rawr.
No to Rampart. I feel like the difference between this guy and, say, Wat Tambor is the degree of independence. One of Tambor's worst atrocities is also on direct order (the attempted destruction of Ryloth, on behalf of Dooku) but Tambor still went out of his way to be worse than just an errand boy; he deliberately disobeys orders to greedily rob as much from the planet as he can before he has it destroyed. Adding to that, Dooku has nothing to do his actions in the Techno Union.
Rampart, as awful as he is, doesn't have that independence to me. He's more like a weapon being pointed by Tarkin rather than a fully individual monster of his own.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:49:31 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]")
Rampart
"No running in the halls!"