Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gilligan
Around 2,000 words is where we usually try to cap it
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Just a starting content creator
Ah, good then. I should be fine. Here's my second attempt an an EP in memory of Akira Toriyama.
The work: Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai - Another Road is a PSP spinoff of the Dragon Ball Z: Budokai video game series. The game takes in Future Trunks' timeline, several years after the defeat of the androids. After working hard to help Earth recover, Trunks decides to take some time off by participating in the World Martial Arts Tournament. Unfortunately, before he can get started, the Babidi and Dabura of this timeline arrive.
Note, this game has several branching paths depending on your choices. For the sake of keeping this entry from getting too long, I'm going to be focusing on the main path, only.
The character: Future Babidi, much like his present timeline counterpart, arrives on Earth with the intention of siphoning the energy from the world's best fighters so he can revive Majin Buu. He has Dabura attack the city to lure out Trunks and steal his energy. While Trunks is immobile, Babid reads his mind and extracts his memories, learning of the time machine, senzu beans, and fighters of the past.
Trunks nearly defeats Dabura, only to be injured taking a blast meant for the city. Babidi then creates fighting puppets based off Trunks' memories of Cell and Frieza, and has them wreak havoc on the world's cities to try and keep Trunks occupied while Dabura tries to steal the time machine from West City. Trunks fights them off, recovers the time machine successfully, and uses it to recruit Goku, Gohan, Goten, Piccolo, Vegeta, Present Trunks, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, and Android 18 from the present timeline.
Bringing his allies to his own timeline, (How did the eleven of them all fit into the time machine?) Trunks takes the fight to Babidi again. Babidi, meanwhile, creates even more fighting puppets, this time of Goku and the other Z Fighters. Babidi then takes control of Piccolo's mind. After the others break Piccolo free of his mind control, Vegeta allows Babidi to once again take control of him, becoming Majin Vegeta again. (I have issues with this...) After Goku slaps some sense into Vegeta, Babidi succeeds in reviving Majin Buu. Having read Piccolo's mind while he was controlling him, Future Babidi knows that his present timeline counterpart was killed by Buu, so he decides to use the Namekian Dragon Balls to wish for Majin Buu to obey him so he can avoid meeting the same fate. (The Earth Dragon Balls are still defunct in this timeline.) Babidi flies off to New Namek in his spaceship while Buu and Dabura continue wreaking havoc on the world.
Babidi arrives on New Namek, but finds he can't control the Namekians due to them having no evil in their hearts. However, both Cooler and Broly happen to be on the planet, (I don't get it either) so Babidi takes control of them instead. The Z Fighters meet Dende, who agrees to become the new Guardian of Earth, and gather the Namekian Dragon Balls, only for Babidi to arrive and try to steal the third wish. Thankfully he fails, as Dende's call for help was interpreted as a wish by Porunga. His plans foiled, Babidi is forced to retreat.
Meanwhile, back on Earth, Majin Buu befriends Mr. Satan like in the presnt timeline. Dabura attacks Mr. Satan, which angers Buu. Evil Buu is formed, turns Good Buu into chocolate, then eats him and becomes Super Buu, who then eats Dabura. Everyone comes back from Namek, Dende revives the Earth Dragon Balls, and Babidi finds Super Buu, surprised at his new form. Upon hearing Super Buu ate Dabura, he's ecstatic that Buu is so strong. He also learns that the Earth Dragon Balls have been revived thanks to Super Buu carrying one. (Mr. Satan gave it to him as a gift before the revival.) Babidi has Super Buu continue to wreak havoc on the world and to fight Trunks and his allies while Babidi himself searches for the Earth Dragon Balls with Cooler and Broly.
Eventually, after the heroes manage to gather the Dragon Balls, Babidi has Broly and Cooler attack the world's cities once again, forcing the heroes to fend them off. In the confusion, Babidi steals the Dragon Balls. Finding no more use for Cooler or Broly, Babidi orders Super Buu to kill them, which he does. He then has Super Buu continue to wreak havoc alongside his fighter puppets while he retreats with the Dragon Balls to make his wish.
Finally, Babidi summons Shenron and is about to wish for Majin Buu to obey his every order. However, in a genuinely awesome moment, Mr. Satan swoops in at the last minutes and wishes to become the most popular guy in the universe, completely ruining Babidi's plans. This sends Babidi into a Villainous Breakdown. He tries to kill Mr. Satan, but Super Buu jumps in and takes the blow. Buu is furious that Babidi tried to kill Mr. Satan, but Babidi disregards him, saying that Mr. Satan was less than garbage and that there are millions just like him. This prompts Super Buu to turn against Babidi in a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy. After eating Babidi, Super Buu's body splits again, leaving behind Good Buu and Kid Buu and setting the stage for the final chapter of the game.
Does he stack up?: Absolutely. Future Babidi is every bit as bad as his present timeline counterpart. He regularly has his minions go on rampages throughout both Earth and Namek simply to keep the heroes distracted while he focuses on his goals, attacking city after city simply as a means to an end. He's actually disappointed upon learning that the Namekians have no evil in them to manipulate, and he find using the Dragon Balls to force Majin Buu to obey him an easier alternative to simply not treating Buu like garbage.
Any mitigating concerns?: None, whatsoever. He shows no compassion for anyone, finding joy upon learning that Super Buu ate Dabura and taking pleasure in betraying Broly and Cooler the instant he doesn't need them anymore.
Final thougts: Future Babidi is a vile, wretched coward who openly admits to seeing humans as less than trash, acting like Mr. Satan was just a toy to be replaced when Super Buu saves him. He's easily just as rotten as the present Babidi. Yes from me.
PS: No, Future Super Buu doesn't count. He genuinely cares for Mr. Satan in this timeline, rather than just being restrained by Good Buu. He kept the rock (actuall a Dragon Ball) Mr. Satan gave him as a gift, and he specifically told Babidi not to kill him when asked about it. He turned on both Dabura and Babidi when they each tried to kill Mr. Satan, and was genuinely happy that Mr. Satan was still alive after eating Dabura. He even risked is own life in taking an attack from Babidi meant for Mr. Satan. He absolutely doesn't qualify.
PPS: The story has issues, I'll admit, but the only thing that genuinely upset me was Vegeta's characterization, as he still acts like the same arrogant hothead, even though he's already faced Majin Buu in his own timeline, meaning the writers completely ignored his character development in the Buu Saga.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Just popping in with a proposal.
What is the work?
Merantau is an Indonesian Martial Arts Movie starring Iko Uwais as a Silat fighter named Yuda who travels from his humble country village to the big city as part of the titular rite-of-passage. He crosses paths with a stripper named Astri and a pre-teen pickpocket named Adit, the former of whom he must defend from human traffickers.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Ratger, a Danish criminal and head of the human-trafficking ring, is behind all of the misfortunes that befall Yuda, Astri, and Adit. Ratger is cruel and psychopathic, treating his Indonesian subordinates with bullying disdain and assaulting his French henchman Luc. In the process of defending Astri from one of Ratger's goons, Yuda smashes a bottle over Ratger's head and horribly scars his face. Enraged, Ratger vows revenge on Yuda and Astri and orders his goons to hunt them across the city. After managing to kidnap Astri and Adit, Ratger rapes Astri and then uses them both to bait Yuda, planning to sell Astri (and perhaps even Adit) into sexual slavery. When battling Yuda at the end of the film, Ratger sadistically mocks him about his inability to save any of the gang's victims. Yuda eventually defeats Ratger, but spares his life, which Ratger takes advantage of by attacking Yuda with a knife, resulting in a bloody Mutual Kill.Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Ratger seems to have a soft spot for the aforementioned French henchman Luc, even becoming enraged when Yuda kills him. However, Ratger himself treats Luc with a cruel possessiveness, at one point smashing a glass over his head during a disagreement. It's clear that whatever feelings Ratger has for Luc are unhealthy and abusive.Are they bad enough?
He's a human trafficker responsible for the sexual slavery of dozens of women, he rapes the female lead, abuses his henchmen, kidnaps a child, and eventually kills the protagonist. While he only kills one person onscreen, I feel like his participation in mass rape easily qualifies Ratger for this trope.Final verdict?
I say yes. He's a sociopathic rapist and murderer who is pretty much single-handedly responsible for making Merantau a much darker film than most martial-arts movies.Edited by DeMac on Mar 17th 2024 at 10:21:01 AM
Just a starting content creator
Yes to Future Babidi, good job on the EP! I remember the Shin Budokai timeline appearing in Dragon Ball Heroes, very interesting AU.
Gilligan, Armstrong
And I think yes to Ratger?
Edited by Snowy66 on Mar 18th 2024 at 1:39:06 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
Gillian, armstrong and Babiddi
Not the Eye
Armstrong, Babidi and Ratger
Babidi, Ratger
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I wanna know more about Ratger's relation with Luc.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Fanfiction proponent
For another Babidi.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Gillian, Armstrong and Babiddi
Jogo
Armstrong and another version Babidi.
Finished Buu Bits. Yeah Super Buu's screen time is too minimal for him to count, plus he isn't taken 100% seriously, the Doordash joke comes to mind
@ACW Luc is Ratger's henchman, and the two of them team up to fight Yuda in the final battle. Ratger isn't generally as rude to Luc as he is to his other goons, at one point mentions having defended Luc during some past altercation and becomes enraged when Yuda kills Luc. However, he at one point smashes a glass over Luc's head during one of his crazed tantrums, which to me shows that his relationship with Luc is still toxic. He hugs Luc afterward as an apology, but the scene is still mostly used to illustrate how deranged Ratger is, since he's trying to comfort someone he just violently assaulted.
Not the Eye
So done little refresh on Lord of the Rings lore and apperently I forgot to note another crime of Sauron I proposed. He fights Ents in Fangorn forest, whose trees are sentient, and unslenshes his fire on it with it all but stated he burned Fangorn to the ground. So yeah, my Sauron has another genocide under him.
Which leads me to another candidate.
What is the work?
What if Saruman Took the One Ring? is another theory video by Men of the West, plot exactly what it says on Tin.
What has Saruman done here?
When his Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and his Hobbit companions, Saruman uses his power of persuasion to make Frodo surrender One Ring to him. When ressurected Gandalf faces him in Isengard, Saruman proclaims he will torture him and Hobbits he captured until “Sun and Moon become old and world is made anew”, before unleashing Nazgûl whom he turned to his side on Gandalf. When Gandalf calls for help from Fangorn Forest, Saruman uses his powers to summon Ligthning and burn it down as Gandalf is imprisoned.
Saruman grows in his knwledge and power, unleashing his army to destroy kingdom of Rohan, killing Legolas and Gimli, using his servant Wormtongue to help him in that before getting rid of him. Saruman, now calling himself Wizard of Night, slowly enslaves Sauron and destroys his forces, learning from Sauron to grow in power. He tries to turn Aragorn to his side with visions of renewed Númenor and peace, while Aragorn does see though lies, he didn’t have will to resist, leading to him and Gray Company being captured and tortured. Saruman lies to Gondor that he made Aragorn his apprentice and has them start making weapons for his conquest.
He ventures into almost empty Mordor, where weak Sauron seemingly swears service to him. Hundreds of years pass and Saruman has enslaved all of Middle Earth, enslaving Radagast the Brown and eventually Gandalf into serving him while spreading his industry across the land. Saruman continues to grow in power and knowledge, continuing to learn from Sauron and intent on becoming even more powerful that Valar. Which Sauron uses to his advantage.
Manipulating Saruman, Sauron has three wizards and himself perform a ritual to break the Door of Night, unleashing Melkor and other evils upon the world. Saruman of course realises that Melkor won’t listen or ally with him, is powerless to do anything as Davor Dagorath begins and universe is eventually made anew.
Heinous standard?
Enslavement of Middle Earth for centuries, genocide of Ents and sentient trees in Fangorn forest, destruction of Rohan, torture and unleashing Melkor and other evils upon the world (thought he only realises how much of bad idea it is to late).
Sauron does outplay and manipulate him into releasing his master to start end of the world, but othervise he is pretty firmly pushed to side by Saruman and other that that only has vague role as Saruman’s servant during his rule.
Reddeming qualities?
He claims to he wants to protect world from Sauron, something which video makes clear that is just pretension for taking power for himself. While he is afraid when he realised he was tricked into releasing Melkor, he simply realised it was bad idea and was outplayed by Sauron, no actual remorse. We are told that ring caused his body to detoriate, but there is no implication it made him any worse of a person that he already is.
Conclusion?
Yes.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 18th 2024 at 9:03:12 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Ratger and Saruman
Gillian, Armstrong and Babiddi.
Not sure about Ratger. Toxic relationship or not, if he's shown to be genuine disturbed by Luc's death then I'll give him a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Yes to the villains Saint, Train Bomber, Herbert, Sauron and Saruman, John Gilligan, Houston Armstrong.
I'll stay away from Ratger. Toxic or not, the fact that even when he hit Luke, he still apologized seems more like he genuinely cared. Twisted and toxic, yes, but still caring. Yes, he's unstable, but that doesn't change the fact that he still apologized to Luke for his behavior.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Saruman.
I know in canon Sauron dies when the Ring gets destroyed, while Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue...what happens to Melkor?
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2024 at 12:38:53 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for John Gilligan, Houston Armstrong, Future Babidi and Saruman.
Abstain on Ratger.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
In-canon? Melkor was banished outside the universe by the other Valar for the things he did as Morgoth. Dagor Dagorath was originally mentioned in The Silmarillion, but those passages were excised by Christopher Tolkien, who claimed J.R.R. discarded the idea... though the published edition still mentions it as "the Last Battle and the Day of Doom".
The different drafts and editions of The Silmarillion have different accounts of what goes down, but in the last one before it was excised Morgoth destroys the Sun and Moon; Eärendil knocks Morgoth from the skies; Tulkas, Fionwë and Túrin fight Morgoth; and Túrin uses his black blade Gurthang to kill Morgoth once and for all.
Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 18th 2024 at 10:15:01 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Lost Tapes "Poltergeist": Charles Weatherly, the previous owner of the Golden Family’s house in life, brutally murdered his own wife and children before killing himself, later returning to haunt his home. After the Golden Family moved in, Charles began tormenting them —especially their young son, Troy, who they suspected of having telekinetic powers. After he pushed a bookcase onto Troy’s older sister —nearly killing her— the family called in paranormal investigators Dr. Jeremy Reinhold, Kristy Johns, and Bill "Shots" Cooper. After they witnessed a sleeping Troy's stuffed panda being turned into a knife, the team moved the family out of the house. Later attempting to exorcise Weatherly, Charles possessed Kristy, making her scream Leave, before slamming her against a wall, killing her. When Jeremy made it clear they weren't going to leave, Weatherly murdered Bill —propping his body up like a statue. When Jeremy decides to leave, Weatherly stabs him to death with a knife anyway.
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Yes to Charles.
So, what's the standard length of an effortpost? Because I finished mine, but it's just shy of 1,200 words long. Problem is, I've already trimmed it down the best I can while keeping the story comprehensible.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!