To-do list:
- Since it was decided to disambiguate Armor Piercing Slap between Bitch Slap, Megaton Punch, Armor-Piercing Attack, and possibly other tropes and Yard concepts that aren't covered by existing tropes, examples that fit existing tropes should be moved accordingly.
- The trope suffers from three major problems:
- Misuse - contributors just pothole to this trope whenever someone slaps someone, ignoring Bitch Slap, which has almost ten times fewer wicks.
- Bad description - it's convoluted and self contradicting. More on that bellow.
- Misleading name - I personally like the way it sounds, but the name seems to be part of the problem. People either see it as a slap analogue of Armor-Piercing Question and Armor-Piercing Response (part of the description also suggests it, but another describes something else entirely) which deals with breaking one's phycological defenses, or compare it to Armor-Piercing Attack and use it as "a reeeeally strong slap".
Description
If we go by the Laconic, the essence of the trope is “If a weakling slaps a badass for upsetting them, it will always hurt him no matter how strong he's supposed to be.” The first paragraph and the page quote describe the same idea.But then it's elaborated and things become confusing: next paragraph says being slapped by a loved one is humiliating, which has nothing to do with strengths. Then there're musings about the stronger character letting the weaker character hit him, because he's a decent person and/or feels guilty, or to prevent ruining the relationship. Double Standard is mentioned. And finally it concludes that: “What matters is that a weaker person is slapping, scolding, or otherwise humiliating a stronger person... and the stronger person is so stunned—or ashamed—that they can do nothing. ” - now it's not even about a slap anymore. It's about not protesting against being scolded.
And just to confuse things even more, the article adds, “But be careful now, it doesn't mean they won't hit back.”, even though it has just said the point of the trope is that they won't fight back.
Also, while it seemingly describes an unrealistic outcome (the implication seems to be that the strong character shouldn't be hurt by the slap, but they are), but ends with "Truth in Television, as anyone who interacts with young children on a regular basis can know.". IMO, if it includes Truth in Television, then it's chairs: "being slapped hurts" - who would've thought.
- In conclusion, the description seems to pack (at least) four different concepts into one trope:
- A much weaker character slaps with an unexpected force that sends a nigh invulnerable character flying, or at least noticeably hurts them.
- Being slapped has a profound psychological effect on a character, leaving them stunned. Related to Get A Hold Of Yourself Man, Armor-Piercing Question and Armor-Piercing Response.
- A physically strong person doesn't defend themselves and doesn't respond in kind to being slapped by a weaker character due to their own morals or societal expectations. Compare Wouldn't Hit a Girl, but less gender specific.
- A badass doesn't protest scolding and abuse from a weakling, because they believe the other person's wrath to be righteous and accept it. A variation of Submissive Badass, only where the submissiveness is momentary.
Wick Check
- Armor Piercing Wick Check
- Most of examples are either ZCE's or describe the reason for the punch, but not the consequences or the slappee's reaction (even though it seems to be the focus of this trope, whichever definition we apply). note I lumped them together, because the reason for the slap is not relevant to this trope.
- ZCE, A slaps B for XYZ, or a character who likes to slap people. (31/50) 62%
- A slaps B really hard (it's either unclear who's stronger, or the slapper is stronger). (8/50) 16%
- A character is slapped and it emotionally affects them. (7/50) 14%
- A weaker character slaps a stronger one and manages to hurt them physically. (2/50) 4%
- A slap has no effect. (2/50) 4%
Possible solution:
- I guess, the most obvious one is to rewrite the description back to it's meaning of "a badass, who easily shrugs off powerful attacks from enemies, is physically hurt by a slap from a weakling". Cut all examples that don't fit. Rename. (incidentally, there is a redirect Girls Hit Harder Than The Villains, which describes the trope more aptly, but it's unnecessarily gendered, if you ask me.) I only worry that there are not enough examples supporting it.
- Or we can go with the flow and merge it with Bitch Slap?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 12th 2022 at 5:25:29 AM
(she/her)
(she/her)
Previous TRS thread here
.
This trope always bothered me. It's been misused for any slap regardless of context (I think Bitch Slap came around later but I didn't check). Since so few of the examples fit the intended definition, I think we might just have to yard it.
Maybe disambig Armor Piercing Slap with related tropes like Bitch Slap, Megaton Punch, Armor-Piercing Attack, and other tropes.
Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 6th 2022 at 6:31:54 AM
Macron's notes
Yeah, It bothered me too, because I saw this trope everywhere, and most of it seemed like a clear misuse, but then you read the full description, and it fits just about anything. Honestly, I couldn't decide what would be the best course here, but disambig is fine with me.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Disambig, sure.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
KIRBY CAR
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to disambiguation.
Disambig.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
the Retromancer
I've always thought "Being slapped has a profound psychological effect on a character, leaving them stunned." was the definition and the other three are missue. Why not limit to it? That doesn't sound like Bitch Slap or Armor-Piercing Response.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
That's not how the description primarily describes the trope. The person who the slap has to be significantly weaker than the person they are slapping. It's always been defined as "strong character gets physically hurt/stunned by being slapped by someone significantly weaker than them".
That's how the trope is described in its laconic, Playing With, and SquarePegRoundTrope.A To D as well (I know that that doesn't necessarily mean that the trope was accurately described.)
The Armor Piercing Slap is an interesting trope. It can be played in slapstick comedy or take place in a VERY serious moment. The whole essence of it is that a significantly weaker character slaps a stronger character in order to get something through their head that they just won't understand otherwise.
People have debated on the definition in the past but that was whether or not the trope had to be comedic.
I guess we could redefine the trope to be "Being slapped has a profound psychological effect on a character, leaving them stunned." but I rather have a new for that as people still misuse the trope for anytime a character gets slapped.
Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 7th 2022 at 7:04:13 AM
Macron's notes
Thing is, it's not entirely uncommon for sufficiently old tropes to shift in meaning over time to get closer to their name or to a misconception people get from an unclear description, especially if the trope name is obtuse enough.
Way back in 2006, this page was a stub with no examples and the following description:
But only if he really deserves it.
, the page had picked up a couple of examples and the second paragraph had been edited to "But only if she thinks he really deserves it. Even if he doesn't (from Accidental Pervert to being assaulted by another girl)". Basically, a trope about how a character with good fighting skills can still be subject to... I don't want to call it slapstick because that sounds too comedic (even if the trope itself might have been intended to be comedic), and I don't want to call it domestic violence because that describes something a lot more serious. Basically a form of "light" violence that doesn't qualify as real combat and therefore ignores the character's fighting skills.
So I suppose this isn't a case of the thing I mentioned in the first paragraph, because this aligns pretty closely with the present-day laconic, albeit being more specific. The emphasis of the trope, however, has shifted dramatically over time.
In March or early April of 2008, the description became this long-winded analysis, which Guy Smiley seems to have objected to on what is now the Archived Discussion page. This version may have contributed to other concepts, especially the fourth one you list, seeping into the description, and its shift in emphasis probably helps explain the 2011 TRS thread's confusion over whether or not dramatic examples count. Regardless, this remained the description well into The New '10s and remains the basis for the present-day description; the major change to the description for nearly a decade was the addition of a paragraph clarifying that the trope isn't specific to a boyfriend/girlfriend situation that introduced the idea that "scolding or humiliating" another character still qualifies for the trope. (Incidentally, note that the Truth in Television line refers to people who work with young girls, which combined with the gendered description, suggests that line is meant to refer to the slapper, not slapee, and that its interpretation of the trope is not the Chairs-y "slaps hurt" but "seemingly weak people can slap harder than you think".)
As late as January of 2016, though, the description still described this as though it was specific to girlfriends outside of that paragraph. Then the description was edited by Trailblazer Zeno to be more generally neutral about the situation and added even more long-winded analysis, but did so in a haphazard way that kept a lot of the stuff from when it was primarily about a romantic couple, only clumsily rephrased. (Notably, this started with their second-ever edit (assuming their edit history isn't missing anything older), their version of the new description is riddled with grammar and punctuation errors, they tried to add a second image at the same time, and they appear to have only been an active editor for a little over seven months total.) This is where the description became the mess it is today, and where the second of the four concepts you list started infesting the description.
I think the original concept is a valid trope and separate from Bitch Slap, but it needs a rename, a thoroughly rewritten description (I'm not sure returning to the pre-2016 description will quite cut it), and a thorough cleansing of misuse. Maybe then the current name can be turned into a disambig.
the Retromancer
I've misunderstood, when the trope was about physical damage. I guess that use can go to Megaton Punch, though that description may need a Tropes Are Flexible notice of some kind.
We can split or yard other potential uses.
Edited by Amonimus on Oct 7th 2022 at 3:24:24 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The 2007 and 2008 links aren't working for me.
Anyway, since the wick check is all over the place and filled with ZCEs, I'm still in favor of disambiguating. We can Yard anything salvageable.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 7th 2022 at 8:23:25 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
This beginning as a two-line stub with and having stuff tacked on over time explains a lot.
Disambig. Shrug about which of the four types in the OP or what concept among 's analysis can be yarded
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I could have been more clear about the fact that I wasn't sure if there was anything worth Yarding. I should have included the word "if" in my previous post.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
As I said, I support disambig-ing. There's really not much of a trope left if we try to rewrite it. While its original description is quite clear, there are just not enough examples of it. The two "correct" examples in the wick check technically fit the letter, but don't really follow the spirit of the trope as described by Morgan Wick:
On the other hand I'm sure the idea has merit. So, yard it, I guess.
As for other concepts I've describes in the OP:
- There are zero examples in the Wick Check that would support the idea of "a character is scolded and/or humiliated, but don't do anything about it, even though they can". It seems like a valid idea, but completely unrelated to this trope. I can't remember whether we already have a trope about that. If not, maybe yard something like Scolding A Superman. Or we can just ignore this part.
- A character not hitting back after being slapped, because they don't want to hurt the other person seems to be too obvious to trope. None of the examples in the Wick Check explicitly describe it, but most imply it (i.e. A slaps B, and it's obvious from the example description that B doesn't slap A in return, but it's not mentioned outright). A lot of those fall under Wouldn't Hit a Girl and Wouldn't Hurt a Child. We might yard something like Wouldnt Hit A Muggle, though.
- As for "a slap breaks one's psychological barriers", I don't know. It might be already covered by Bitch Slap?
Yeah this seems like an easy disambig. every possible definition for this trope doesn't have enough examples to support a split. yard the good ideas
Professor Gigachad
(she/her)
Made a crowner since it's been three days.
Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 9th 2022 at 4:43:25 AM
Macron's notes
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of disambiguating between Bitch Slap, Megaton Punch, Armor-Piercing Attack, and possibly other tropes and Yarding concepts that aren't covered by existing tropes.
Edit: I cut the subpages and took care of the video examples, but I don't currently feel like handling the disambiguation part, so anyone who wants to do that is free to go ahead with it.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 12th 2022 at 5:29:15 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
(she/her)
I did the disambiguation. I replaced Armor-Piercing Attack with Mundangerous (superpowered character gets hurt by something mundane) because I think the only similarity between the two is the name.
2111 wicks to clean.
CG for short
Found this Armor Piercing Slap on Orphan: First Kill. Which of the tropes on the disambg fits this?
- When Gunnar blackmails Esther into keeping his Dark Secret, she responds by slapping him. When he threatens her if she does it again, she immediately defies him with a follow up, effectively calling his bluff.
Just stoic wisdom.
Redirect is done. Going to add some tropes to the disambig based on what I used.
Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
Captain of USS Bajor
~Cutegirl920fire: That looks like Bitch Slap to me, although you may want to check with the Is this an example? thread.
Edited by StarSword on Nov 10th 2022 at 10:11:09 AM
Crown Description:
Armor Piercing Slap has been heavily misused for any instance of a character being slapped regardless of context. What should we do to fix the issue?
To-do list:
Description
If we go by the Laconic, the essence of the trope is “If a weakling slaps a badass for upsetting them, it will always hurt him no matter how strong he's supposed to be.” The first paragraph and the page quote describe the same idea.But then it's elaborated and things become confusing: next paragraph says being slapped by a loved one is humiliating, which has nothing to do with strengths. Then there're musings about the stronger character letting the weaker character hit him, because he's a decent person and/or feels guilty, or to prevent ruining the relationship. Double Standard is mentioned. And finally it concludes that: “What matters is that a weaker person is slapping, scolding, or otherwise humiliating a stronger person... and the stronger person is so stunned—or ashamed—that they can do nothing. ” - now it's not even about a slap anymore. It's about not protesting against being scolded.
And just to confuse things even more, the article adds, “But be careful now, it doesn't mean they won't hit back.”, even though it has just said the point of the trope is that they won't fight back.
Also, while it seemingly describes an unrealistic outcome (the implication seems to be that the strong character shouldn't be hurt by the slap, but they are), but ends with "Truth in Television, as anyone who interacts with young children on a regular basis can know.". IMO, if it includes Truth in Television, then it's chairs: "being slapped hurts" - who would've thought.
Wick Check
Possible solution:
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 12th 2022 at 5:25:29 AM
Macron's notes