has made a decision that all articles in the Let's Play namespace (list of pages in that namespace) should be moved to other namespaces.
Since let's plays are usually video-based, the target namespace is usually WebVideo/. However, some are text-based, and the consensus was to handle the namspacing of those on a case-by-case basis, with Blog/, Fanfic/, and Literature/ brought up as potential targets.
Before any given article is transplanted, we should confirm that it meets the standards for being a TV Tropes work article. Note that these often serve as hybrid articles for their creators in much the same way as the Music namespace. If there is insufficient content, the articles end up becoming about the creators, violating our "no troping real people" policy.
The crucial question is whether the article has any tropable, creative content. This means that it's more than just "Alisha plays games and makes faces." What counts as tropable, creative content? Here are some examples.
- Creating a fictional/roleplaying narrative that is distinct from the game being played or the real person doing the LP.
- Using the game as a medium to craft original content: songs, videos, machinima, and so on.
- "MST'ing" or creatively riffing on the game's content, as long as it's sufficiently transformative.
What are not criteria for a tropable Let's Play by themselves?
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Note that the same general principles apply to any Web Video creator, especially those whose main work is in news, reviews, vlogging, and/or reaction videos.
There are a few outliers that will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
- After-Action Report: I would move it to literature, although it could be considered fanfic.
- Liveblogs, which are probably not tropable.
Web Video cleanup sandbox
This project has several purposes related to all things Web Video:
- Cleaning up the WebVideo index
- Cleaning up the WebVideo/ namespace to move pages that belong elsewhere
- Cleaning up individual Web Video pages that have massive issues
Overview
The easy-seeming part when I started on Web Video (the index) was just removing things not even located in the namespace— found in Creator, Film, Web Animation, etc. Then I started noticing there were many things put in Web Video (the namespace) that were basically Creator pages, lots of Let's Play, other video game streaming that doesn't currently have an index, other misuses in index and/or namespace placement...
- original live action, meaning not animated or reusing existing footage;
- narrative/creative, a bit unclear, but it's not someone simply reviewing another work/reacting to other works/playing through another work;
- a work, which is... a work, not a creator.
) is much more broad:
"Live-action videos and video-based Lets Plays originally or only released online. Covers both YouTube videos and web-exclusive series, but does not include those that belong in the WebAnimation/ namespace. For big-budget series exclusive to streaming services such as Netflix, use Series/ or the appropriate animation namespace instead." — Not limited to original or live action footage, narrative works, etc. However, people have mistakenly created Web Animation pages in this namespace, made what are essentially creator pages, typed it as "Webvideo", etc.
:
Reaction channels tend to straddle a line here, but are not generally tropable unless they create some sort of distinct creative endeavor rather than stare at a video and laugh a bit. Also it helps if they are reacting to fiction, not to real life. The latter may be entertaining but falls into the same general category as gossip. We can trope these only for their use of production and artistic tropes, not for their topics.
-
No Analysis Channel index— corrected! - No index for non-Let's Play video game streaming unless they're on Twitch. If they don't fall into the Let's Play format and aren't on Twitch, where do they go?
- No
Gag Dub orGag Sub index - Where should we put channels based on prank calls, scam-baiting, other audio-based things where the video is incidental?
Pages identified for cleanup:
- A Dose of Buckley — see this ATT for more info
- The Mysterious Mr. Enter and subpages — issues include troping the creator and not the works
- The Nostalgia Critic and subpages — see this project thread
- Smosh and subpages — Smosh is a channel, and the pages have multiple works (may need a hard split)
- Thomas Sanders — Creator, lots of biographical details, previously hard split for Sanders Sides but may need another
See also:
- Cleanup: Review/Let's Play YMMV Tropes
- TLP: Actual Play genre/index
Just the index cleanup itself is a considerable project, figuring out what stays and what needs a different index, but there are also many pages with significant issues to clean. This is a very big project, but I've seen other people notice these issues, too. I hope we can at least get the index under control.
(![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
For clarity and re: review stuff. Continue to edit as things occur that are useful to keep at the top of the thread.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:02:00 AM
the Retromancer
If it's about sites like lparchive.org, I hardly see how they would fit Literature or Fanfic, they're like a list of comments about the work in chronolgical order without changing anything about the work.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
Well, The Terrible Secret of Animal Crossing and Plague and Treachery on the Oregon Trail are lparchive works that add their own narrative to the games so I guess you can argue that those works could go in Literature/ or Fanfic/. I can't speak for the rest of the LP's on that site but I doubt most of them are that transformative.
Macron's notes
the Retromancer
I'm not very versed in these sites, but I guess being a hosting platform with formatting tools they can host both text-plays and game-related fanfics.
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 10th 2022 at 8:31:25 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Another question: would Lets Game It Out fall under the non-tropeworthy category of "playing the game a specific way"? I'm subscribed to him and most of his videos consist of playing games in a very specific way that extremely occasionally (not really) have a sort-of plot. I don't think it's tropeworthy, but I'm asking for second opinions.
Here's his channel BTW for reference.
(For the record I'm starting my end of this cleanup with channels I know and watch/have watched since I can more effectively judge their tropeworthiness then.)
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 10th 2022 at 12:41:40 PM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
the Retromancer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe that coooould be kept, he's more using a Soft-Spoken Sadist persona for manager sim games to make characters experience hell and creates situations specifically for it, and not plays the game As Himself like normal reviewers.
At least clear the tropes that describe him and not the content and see what that leaves.
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 10th 2022 at 8:44:55 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Just a heads up, I added a new option for deciding the namespacing on a case-by-case basis after discussion with the other mods.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Question: are we allowed to unilaterally clear tropes describing the person and not anything tropeworthy? Or should we bring them up here first?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
the Retromancer
I believe tropes describing the real person aren't allowed to begin with?
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 10th 2022 at 8:50:39 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
Yeah, tropes about a creator's personal life aren't allowed.
Macron's notes
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I know they aren't allowed, I was just saying should I cut first, or discuss first?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Angry babby
I would say double-check to make sure they're troping the real life person and not something they present under Alter-Ego Acting, cuz the later would be okay.
Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 10th 2022 at 1:31:38 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Lost in Space
You don't need explicit permission for each and every deletion, but it is good practice to leave an edit reason explaining the pull and linking to either the cleanup thread or the relevant policy. If someone contests a deletion, send them here.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
It wasn't a rock
Just went through the LetsPlay/ namespace and cutlisted a lot of deadwood, and I mean a lot. Plenty of others seem to seldom have wicks outside of an index or two.
1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)
the Retromancer
RIP those inbounds, but we're not Youtube Wiki.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Here's a question: how much of RebelTaxi is tropable? Pan doesn't really have a plot in any of his videos, but he does sometimes engage in Discussed Troping and he has at least one character that appears in his videos (his little sister that loves Invader Zim and Hot Topic, etc.). Is that enough for a page? (I personally think so but I'm asking around for more opinions.)
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Angry babby
He employs recurring characters and running gags in his work, like a fictional story about having a long lost daughter, so I think it could count. I'm pretty sure Pan is mostly secretive about his real life appearance and self (or at least he was when I watched his stuff) so the animated avatar he uses is what most people will be troping, and that persona is pretty exaggerated at times (i.e. being more Self-Deprecating and horny).
Pan also has his own original characters and works as an artist but maybe that would belong on its own page.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Is Mau Ler tropable? An example on his page was brought up at the ROCEJ thread and since there doesn't appear to be characters, a plot, etc. (and I don't watch his channel) I'm wondering if there's anything tropable about him. Any comments?
Also can we call the crowner if we haven't already?
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 17th 2022 at 9:21:52 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Veteran Editor IV
It's a film reviewing show and the word "discussed" shows up in several trope examples regarding the works reviewed. I'd say it's good.
Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 17th 2022 at 2:45:13 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Noting that the page is listed in the pinned post as needing cleanup.
Edited by KUnlimited on Mar 17th 2022 at 3:41:42 PM
Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.
the Retromancer
Looking through Mau Ler it seems mostly alright, the tropes appear to be either be Discussed Trope or Invoked Trope, which we consider a part of channel branding and not Troping Real People.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lost in Space
Discussed Trope only counts for our tropability standards if it is being done by characters in a story.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Veteran Editor IV
Maybe those standards should be changed, then. This is another one that just leads to nothing gained and plenty of worthwhile work analysis/pages/inbounds lost just because.
Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 17th 2022 at 3:13:30 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Lost in Space
That attitude is based on a fundamental fallacy. We are under no obligation to make an article every time someone writes an essay on media or talks to a camera about tropes.
"This is interesting" does not equal "this is tropable".
"You guys should totally watch this" does not equal "this is tropable".
"This is a creative work employing narrative tropes" equals "this is tropable".
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yeah, I guess we do need to settle what to do with text-based let's plays, so I hooked a crowner to get that out of the way.
And yes, pages that are already in the WebVideo/ namespace are still on-topic. We're keeping that aspect of the thread and simply adding Wick Namespace Migration of LetsPlay/ pages to it.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 10th 2022 at 11:17:24 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.