During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Uhtred
I'll add the rewrite to the drafts
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Sure to Uthred.
Self-Declared King of Everything
Okay, let's try another one.
What is the work?
Remnant's Bizarre Adventure is a crossover between RWBY and Jojos Bizarre Adventure, primarily but not exclusively Part 4. And, it happens to be one of my favorite fanfics. Seriously, I highly recommend this one if you are a fan of either property. It captures the essence of the characters damn near perfectly.
But I'm not here to talk about how good this fic is, I'm here to talk about a potential MB qualifier. And sadly, I can't EP Pucci, despite him being as great as ever, because the fic is early into his arc (and it remains to be seen if that arc will ever be completed, seeing as how it hasn't been updated since 2020).
But I do have a couple of candidates that I think could qualify. And I do have to note, this is my first time writing a MB EP for a Villain of the Week.
Who is Eleven Men? What has he done?
Eleven Men is a Stand-using assassin contracted to help carry out the Breach, alongside his peer Oyecomova. Despite the name, he's just one guy, but his Stand, Tatoo You!, allows him to meld eleven bodies into one. And while that might not seem very impressive at first, Eleven Men uses it to downright deadly effect.
On the train headed for the walls of Vale, RWY encounters a cowboy-themed assassin, while Jotaro heads to the front of the train to take on Torchwick and Oyecomova. Yang, assuming that anyone expected to be able to take on Jotaro will require more firepower than the guy expected to take on trainees, has Ruby and Weiss go to back him up while she takes on the cowboy. The cowboy, knowing that taking on three Huntresses on his own is a risky prospect, decides to let them go ahead.
When Yang tries to punch the assassin, he catches her fist with nine overlapping hands, and fires a dozen Gravity Dust rounds into her. Of course, this being RWBY, her Aura protects her. After the initial tradeoff, she notes that he could have easily shot her more, but he tells her that he studied her Semblance and knows that doing too much damage too quickly will simply make her stronger. Yang asks him his name, and since he "can't rightly deny a woman her request entirely," he offers to go by his work name: Ten Men.
Yang quickly finds Ten Men far more infuriating than any of the opponents she had previously fought, and keep in mind that this list includes Bruno Bucciarati, Neo Politan, and Red Hot Chili Pepper. Considering that she's the stronger and faster of the two, she should be able to pummel him, but he's so well coordinated that whenever she gets close, he's able to dodge her blows and pepper her with Gravity Dust bullets. And much like Bucciarati, and completely unlike Neo and Chili Pepper, Ten Men isn't arrogant enough to make careless mistakes.
But Yang has learned from her experiences as well, and she decides to take a risk. Loading her gauntlets with non-explosive rounds, she bluffs Ten Men into thinking she's willing to risk blowing up the train. Ten Men is forced to confine his range of movement to keep her from accidentally hitting the Dust barrels. And when Yang seems like she's about to go for a Suicide Attack, she forces one of Ten Men's bodies into Taking the Bullet for the explosive barrels, along with a powerful punch to the head. When Ten Men realizes that head is very much not blown up by Yang's bullet, he realizes the rounds were non-lethal even to those without Aura, and wouldn't have blown up the barrels.
Taking advantage of her enemy's momentary disorientation, Yang quickly presses her advantage in order to punch out eight more of Ten Men's bodies, but "Ten Men" surprises her with a shot between the eyes, revealing that he had lied about the number of bodies he controlled. While Yang again survives, Eleven Men recovers before she does. He notes that that particular trick had gotten him out of quite a few tight spots before, and that while Yang had fought well, her Aura is just about to break.
Eleven Men notes that he doesn't really enjoy killing kids, and emphasizes that Yang had fought well, but she had lost. However, just as he's about to finish her off, Raven Branwen arrives to deliver her "one free save" and cuts off the arm of one of Eleven Men's bodies. Eleven Men, realizing he doesn't have good odds against Raven, has his disarmed body distract her while the rest of him makes his escape.
Eleven Men, or rather Ten Men for real now, meets up with Oyecomova at the front of the train and the two make their escape.
Magnificent?
Well, I'm not sure whether or not it really gets emphasized the previous section, but Eleven Men is fairly magnificent. He's unfailingly polite, confident in his abilities but not to the point of arrogance, badass enough to make an impression, and he's an intelligent fighter who makes good use of a seemingly weak ability. He's also respectful of Yang, and treats her as a Worthy Opponent. He's a Combat Pragmatist, but he's not a coward or a sadist, and his Know When to Fold 'Em moment is treated as him being smart rather than cowardly, and it doesn't change the fact the train hits the walls of Vale anyway, with Josuke being the only reason the Breach fails. He doesn't have a sympathetic motive, but he doesn't necessarily need one to qualify. I can't think of any reason he wouldn't qualify compared to any other MB Villain of the Week.
Bastard? Too much?
He definitely qualifies as a bastard, being a Professional Killer and accomplice to an attempted act of terrorism. As for whether he's too much of a bastard, no, I don't think so. The Breach is Cinder's plot, not his, and we've had MBs who were accomplices to equivalently heinous acts before.
Verdict?
I think he qualifies.
Edited by Critica7 on Apr 11th 2022 at 6:57:30 AM
Check out my current fanfiction project.
Goku Black
Uhtred
Uhtred sounds like a keep (although for a second I thought you were talking about Uther from Merlin (2008) and he would not have gotten my vote).
Elven Men sounds like a keep.
Sure to Elevan Man.
Edited by YobabyColin on Apr 11th 2022 at 10:39:00 AM
With a new Psych candidate being proposed and upvoted recently, I think I'll contribute a new Psych EP... one that I've been holding off for a while:
The Work
Psych. Episode Name "Autopsy Turvy". Candidate Name, Grace Larsen
It has been discovered that Woody, the SBPD's beloved Creepy Coroner, has made a mistake on a recent autopsy (Bob White) - apparently, the coroner's report failed to mention that the corpse was missing an ear, an error that was discovered by a mortician named Grace Larsen, Woody's classmate and ex. This means that Bob's death could have been a murder rather than an accident, as previously thought. With Woody's job and reputation at stake, Shawn and Gus vow to re-investigate and clear their friends name.
While Shawn and Gus are at the scene of Bob's death, they are interrupted by Whip Chatterly, a murder aficionado who owns a true crime bookstore across the street, and is upset that he was asleep the one night that there was a murder. When Shawn introduces himself as the SBPD's head psychic detective, Whip is excited as he is a massive fan of the duo, and asks to tag along on their investigation.
Meanwhile, Chief Vick has hired Grace to re-investigate Bob White's case, While she and Woody are examining his stomach cavity, they discover Thai/Soul Food fusion. This leads the Psych duo to a Thai/Soul Food fusion restaurant, where they find out that Bob white was a regular there and never consumed alcohol because he was allergic to it. This is despite the fact that Bob's autopsy report showed a high blood alcohol level at the time of his death. Grace uses this info to predict that someone injected alcohol into his system, and suggests scanning the body for injection marks. The marks are found on the toes, meaning that the case is now an unambiguous murder.
The duo also find tickets to a dancing hall, meant to emulate the 1940's, indicating Bob White's next stop. One of the dancers claimed to know Bob, as a depressed, lonely man. Out of pity, she directed him to a fake psychic, asking her to give him a (fake) positive reading. They meet the psychic, who tells them that Bob was desperately in love with a woman named Penny Chalmers, and she lied to him, telling him that he would have a future with her.
It turns out that Penny is an in-home performance artist, who pays people to watch her live in her apartment - Bob was an audience member. Apparently, Penny's encounter with Bob didn't go well, as she threatened to call the cops on him. She tells the gang that she saw Bob get into a black Impala car, and Shawn deduces that whoever was in the car was the last person to see Bob alive.
Meanwhile, Woody and Grace discover Bob had a mixture of spray paint and muriatic acid under his fingernails. Woody updates Shawn, and this leads him and Gus to a painted mural a short distance away from the accident. On the mural, he notices a symbol - the stamp symbol that Whip places in the books he sells at his shop. Shawn realizes that Whip is the killer, but by the time they get to his house, they find him dead in his car from a self-inflicted gunshot. Next to him, they find a plastic bag with Bob's earlobe inside, and a note where Whip thanks Shawn and Gus for securing his "rightful place in the annals of murder history".
At this point, Shawn believes that Whip did it and that everything is wrapped up... except that Whip sent a voicemail ho him an hour earlier, where he hears a car door slam shut after the gunshot. They head back to the bookstore and enter the surveillance room, where they see a video of a cloaked figure reading from different books in the store, and all of these books are in a stack in the same room, with a small piece of each book has been carefully ripped out. Shawn deduces that Whip found the figure suspicious, and his suspicions turned out to be correct as she was actually researching on how to commit the perfect murder. Whip was the perfect person to pin it on, and Shawn realizes that the killer is Grace, due to a tic she had with her hand
Meanwhile at the coroners office, Woody is pulling an all nighter, vowing to do as thorough a job as possible with Whip's autopsy. Grace notices him and offers to join in. Woody has just found a tiny capsule in Whip's throat, containing the ripped out pieces, and Shawn is trying to call Woody to warn him about the danger. However, Grace pockets his phone so he can't answer it, and tosses away the evidence Woody found. When Woody expresses his confusion, Grace points a gun at him and tells him that despite being top of her class, she hasn't been able to get a job in criminal pathology and has been stuck as a mortician since graduation, and was jealous of Woody's success. When Bob's death was ruled an accident instead of murder, she sliced off Bob's ear to make it look like Woody messed up the autopsy - she wanted the SBPD to reopen the case so that she could prove Woody's incompetence and steal his job. However, Whip realized what Grace was up to, and set Grace up by swallowing the capsule containing her DNA samples, so that the coroner would discover that Grace killed him. Grace tells Woody that Whip's actions mean that she has to kill him, but before she can follow through with it, Juliet barges into the office with a bunch of cops in tow - apparently, she just so happened to be at the department doing paperwork, when Shawn called her and told her that Woody was in danger and Grace is the killer.
Magnificence
She was apparently as good as Woody when they were classmates, and manages to convince Vick to get her on the case. She also interacts remarkably well with Woody despite their past history... at least until the reveal. As for planning, she almost gets away with her actions and framing Whip for Bob's murder. The only reason why it fails is because Whip sent a voicemail to Shawn (presumably a butt-dial). Even when Shawn tries to contact Woody, she intercepts the call, and Woody is only saved by a random coincidence (Juliet's presence at the office)
And speaking of her reaction to getting caught, we don't see it. Jules barges in, and it then cuts to the next day with Vick talking to Woody
Bastardry
She committed two murders and was willing to seriously screw over Woody so that she could take his job
Mitigating Issues
One word - Envy. I'm not sure how jealousy impacts a characters magnificence, but Green-Eyed Monster isn't listed as a trope to avoid on SoYouWantTo.Write A Magnificent Bastard. This was the main reason why I held off on her.
Edited by magnumtropus on Apr 11th 2022 at 2:59:37 PM
Tentative yes to Grace. She's not the best candidate from the show but meets the qualifications (even if I really dislike her for killing Whip).
Edited by Melinda on Apr 11th 2022 at 7:58:26 AM
Sure to Grace.
Edited by YobabyColin on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:12:21 AM
to Utread, Elevan Man and Grace
Well I’m currently packing and getting ready for my trip to Honolulu tomorrow so I won’t be on this and the cm forum for the a few days
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:52:15 AM
Yes to Uhtred, Eleven Man and Grace.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Eleven Men, Grace
Enjoy your trip G!
Any answers about my query about whether this character is too Ax-Crazy to propose? Or should I do a EP in good faith and let the thread decide from there.
Have a great time G!
Could ask Ravok or Scraggle—they've handled the keepers so far—or just go for it.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Yo, can't say I'm back (I still have a lot of shit to do IRL so aside from that message I'll still be absent for a while, in fact I'm not even sure I can say for just a couple days), but thanks for the well wishes guys, and I do feel much better.
Wrote that message both to give you guys news and cus' I just found an old short EP that's been on my backburner for too long and finished it in minutes.
You're most likely familiar with the following candidates. I've dealt with three of them two years ago and quickly mentioned the fourth one.
What's the work?
"Kidnapping (ft. 113)" is a 2000 song by French rap group Intouchable, from their debut album Les Points sur les I. For further information about both Intouchable and 113, see the EP I linked above.
What's going on in the song? Well, it's name says it all.
Who are Rim'K, AP, Demon One and Dry? What have they done?
Yeah, that's prolly the first quatuor I'm dealing with.
Rim'K, reading a newspaper, discovers an article that apparently wasn't exactly kind towards 113 and Intouchable as the two groups slowly started to gain a reputation.
So, yeah, the journalist behind that one needs to be taught a lesson.
Quickly learning the journalist's address thanks to an acquaintance, Rim'K sneaks in his home before knocking him out and, well, kidnapping him and hiding him in his car, burning down his home and bringing him to AP and Demon One.
The two then proceed to interrogate him to learn about his associates. With that information in mind, they go to a public phone and anonymously contacts the newspaper's editor-in-chief, telling them one of their journalists is in their hands and if they don't want him to die asphyxiated within 24 hours, they'll have to pay a ransom of thousands of euros. The duo then send the editor-in-chief the picture and the address of the hotel where he has to bring the ransom money, tasking him to come alone.
Dry is the one who has to go to the hotel to take the ransom money, with Demon telling him to flee if things don't go according to plan.
Armed and with a couple men hidden in a car nearby who will notify him of anything unusual, Dry goes to the hotel, though the editor-in-chief isn't here. Dry has Demon call the editor-in-chief to remind him, with the latter panicking and begging, first attempting to contact the police then to bargain with Dry by promising to retract the journalist's article.
However, the quatuor's friend and fellow rapper OGB contacts them and tells them the article was indeed retracted as promised. The quatuor subsequently releases the journalist, but not before warning him not to cross them again and taking his money.
... Do I need to say Karma Houdini, BTW ?
Are they charming? Intelligent?
They portray themselves as a group who shouldn't be crossed by any means, and quickly prove it. That being said, they're not beyond reason, and as soon as they got what they wanted from them release their hostage as promised.
They work together with the same goal in mind, coming up with an elaborate kidnapping plot and being prepared with several possibilities.
Thinking on their feet?
I dunno if I'd say Xanatos Speed Chess, but when I said Crazy-Prepared, I meant :
- Demon One and AP anonymously contacting the editor-in-chief to implicitly avoid the police.
- Demon One and AP warning Dry to flee if anything goes awry and to lose the police if they're tailing him.
- Dry having a couple men hidden in a seemingly inconspicuous car nearby and keeping watch.
So, I don't think it's an issue
What about the competition?
Not much, admittedly, though for good reasons : I don't think the journalist should've expected to be, I dunno, abducted when he was just chilling in his home? The police, while not appearing, is taken in account in that plan in order for the quatuor to avoid dealing with them altogether.
Are they bastards?
They kidnapped a journalist for supposedly slandering their reputation in a newspaper, burned down his house and threatened to kill him should the editor-in-chief not give them the ransom.
While the journalist is stated to be an Asshole Victim who slandered 113 (apparently implicitly wishing they were dealers instead of rappers or something for the article to be more successful), threatening him and kidnapping him still seems to be a bit much. It's not like the journalist crossed the Moral Event Horizon, let alone did something Complete Monster-worthy.
Too much?
They look out for each other and are fairly reasonable all things said : as soon as OGB inform them that the newspaper retracted the journalist's claims, they keep their word and release him, being content with taking his money instead of the initially-planned ransom money.
Any other mitigating factors?
Nope.
Verdict?
Up to you guys.
Preemptive writeup
- Intouchable's "Kidnapping (ft. 113)" from Les Points sur les I: 113's Rim'K and AP and Intouchable's Demon One and Dry learned that a journalist recently slandered them in one of his articles and thus seek retribution. Sneaking in the journalist's home, Rim'K abducts him before bringing him to AP and Demon. The latter two interrogate him to learn about his associates, and with that information anonymously contact the newspaper the journalist works for and more accurately it's editor-in-chief. Tasking him to bring several thousands of euros as ransom within 24 hours to a hotel, Demon and AP tasks Dry with collecting the ransom money in the hotel, telling him to retreat if plan goes south. Armed as he goes to the hotel, AP has a couple men hidden in an inconspicuous car nearby to alert him of anything unusual. When the editor-in-chief doesn't shows up and insteads begs for them to spare the journalist if he retracts the article, the quatuor agrees to as soon as their friend OGB confirm to them the article was retracted, being content with taking the journalist's money instead.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Apr 11th 2022 at 1:01:39 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Yes there Georgie but might I suggest for your song writeups you do just a brief summary of smart/charming things they do. The entry seems to cover everything that happens in the song and we're not writing about their character arc, just why they count for MB. Also I forget... are songs allowed links to offsite stuff? I thought we were supposed to redlink everything.
Yes to the Intouchables candidates as well as Utred, Grace and Elevan man.
Anyway I'm almost ready to do Game!Rouge. I think she might count on just from Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes alone as in Heroes she's the true team leader of Team Dark acting as a mediator between Shadow and Omega. She outwits Robotnik/Eggman a few times too particularly in Adventure 2. Don't worry, I won't be biased. If she doesn't make it, she doesn't make it.
Edited by Klavice on Apr 11th 2022 at 1:39:32 AM
I thought you said you weren't comfortable doing EPs anymore?
Didn't I say I was going to do Horo/Holo too? In reality, I'm comfortable doing them but I'm trying to do as much research into candidates as I can and trying not to act as impartial and unbiased as possible. I wasn't for a while though.
Edited by Klavice on Apr 11th 2022 at 1:41:26 AM
No you just inquired if Holo could count. Even if both likely do I'm concerned about accuracy of the facts being reported in the effort posts and writeups.
for Yara, the Three-Eyed Raven, Snowden, the Spirit, Eshu, Uhtred, Eleven Men, Grace, the Kidnapping Qauartet. (That could be a band name all by itself.)
Have a good one, G.
I'll link videos in the effortpost then. I mean if other people can recover from a lack of trust, I'll do my damndest. If someone else wants to do them instead, be my guest.
Edited by Klavice on Apr 11th 2022 at 1:53:30 AM
Yes to Eleven Men and Yara.
Actually, Klavice, do you mind if I take Rouge? I remember Sonic Adventure 2 pretty well and I'd be happy to take the work off your hands.
I have another from the Last Kingdom now...and oh, boy, is this one I've been waiting for...
It's time for Uhtred. Son of Uhtred.
Who is Uhtred?
Born Osbert, the son of Uhtred, Lord of Bebbanburg, "Osbert" was given the name Uhtred when his elder brother died and Osbert found himself the heir. As a boy, Uhtred saw the raids of the Danes on his shores and his father was killed in battle. Earl Ragnar of the Danes took Uhtred hostage with a girl named Brida and brought him back to his home. Uhtred was not treated poorly, however. Earl Ragnar loved him dearly, like his own son and Uhtred was one of the family after he helped save Ragnar's daughter from a rape attempt by Sven, the son of Kjartan, one of Ragnar' bannermen.
Years passed and Uhtred was happy, until Kjartan's coup. Earl Ragnar died, his son Ragnar away and his daughter Thyra taken hostage. Uhtred was framed. Fleeing with Brida, they ended up in Danish territory, ith Uhtred having two goals: avenge Ragnar and kill his treacherous uncle to reclaim Bebbanburg. Uhtred found himself in the court of King Alfred of Wessex, helping to lead his forces against the Danes and showing himself an excellent warrior and tactician with one problem: Uhtred is VERY hotheaded, refusing to knuckle under to the customs of the Saxons and being a proud Pagan. He also allied with the Cornish King Peredur and then betrayed him to a group of danes for plunder, which got him framed for their crimes...he also kills the great Dane warlord Ubba in single combat by quick thinking
Uhtred, however, is extremely effective and saves the life of King Alfred hen Wessex almost falls, leading a force to crush the Danish army, and defeating the Dane warlord Guthrum. Uhtred is sold into slavery after being kidnapped, and later helps retake Earl Ragnar's lands, allowing his brother Ragnar to kill Kjartan, saving Thyra with the help of Father Beocca, a tough priest who is the closest thing Uhtred now has to a father.
Uhtred is married to a woman named Gisela. Things go really downhill when Alfred's daughter Aethelflaed is kidnapped by Vikings from her husband Aethelred, with Uhtred working to rescue her. Turns out Aethelflaed has fallen for one of them. That viking, Erik, dies helping them and Uhtred returns Aethelflaed home.
Things go south when Uhtred finally snaps at Alfred's manipulations and attacks him full view of the court, becoming an outlaw, cursed by a witch named Skade which might kill his wife in childbirth. Uhtred, however, takes down another Danish force and kills Skade to un-curse himself, luring her in to a river and drowning her as the way to break a curse? Kill the user without shedding a drop of blood. Uhtred reurns to Alfred and the two make amends, with Uhtred moved by seeing the chronicles of his exploits. Even if he himself will never be mentioned, Uhtred knows he will live on in the pages before them.
Uhtred dedicates himself back to Wessex and wins a great victory as Alfred dies of his illness. Uhtred tries to reclaim Bebbanburg, but his cousin usurps him and kills Uhtred's uncle and Father Beocca. Uhtred manages to escape, with things disintegrating between him and Brida. Uhtred's brother Ragnar is murdered by Alfred's cousin Aethelwold and Uhtred eventually avenges him, but Brida is gaining a hate of Christians that might be best termed as "genocidal," allying with a warrior named Cnut. Uhtred fools Cnut by taking his sons hostage and appears to murder one. In truth, Uhtred beheads the corpse of a child killed by Danes, while sparing the boys, luring Cnut into a trap. Brida is taken hostage by the Welsh after, Uhtred unable to kill her. Uhtred and Aethelflaed fall in love, but duty later separates them.
Uhtred assists in making peace between the Saxons and the Danish warlord Sigtryggyr, who takes Uhtred's daughter Stiorra as a hostage ('hostage' is a formality, the two are clearly smitten with one another and soon marry). Season 5 hits and Brida returns, castrates Uhtred's son and wages a brutal campaign that Uhtred puts down. Brida and Cnut's child dies despite Uhtred trying to save her and Brida is eventually killed by Stiorra. King Edward sows discord between Saxons and Danes Uhtred wisely diffuses and at last leads a force to sve Edward and reclaim Bebbanburg himself. Aethelfaed sadly dies of cancer, in Uhtred's arms as they reaffirm their love for one another one final time.
Uhtred brokers peace with the enemy forces of Scotland,and actually gets one over on Edward: Uhtred makes it so Northumbria retains independence as a buffer, stating England will be united, but Edward is not the man to do it. The series ends with Uhtred about to meet his and Gisela's son Osbert, reconciled with his eldest son and Stiorra and having reclaimed his home, looking over the ocean with tears in his eyes as he recalls the decades of war, fighting, love and loss...wondering if more fighting is to come.
But knowing, one final time:
Destiny...IS ALL.
Mitigating issues?
I'm summarizing like five seasons of a main character. This isn't easy. Uhtred is an exemplary strategist and tactician and comes up with wily gambits on the battlefield and in direct combat. He also tends to devise secret operations, using himself as a commando to infiltrate and sabotage when appropriate. He's very good at it. Very, VERY good at it. The main issue is really twofold: Uhtred's serious issues with Christians and his hot-headedness and tendency to be led astray.
Uhtred isn't stupid, but he's not used to the machinations of the Saxon courts. As a result, Alfred finds it pretty easy to use him at first, before the two begin to truly depend on one another. Uhtred is prone to extremely stupid actions at first, openly defying Alfred in front of his court and later holding a sword to his throat when Alfred pushes him too far.
It should be noted, this is a much younger Uhtred. Uhtred matures very notably in season 3 and begins to leave his issues with Christianity behind. He's initially NOT happy his son becomes a priest, but later accepts it, and begins to accept Christians more even as he remains a proud pagan. He loves Father Beocca like a father, and the man adores him even if he thinks Uhtred needs a good knock around the head every so often. Uhtred also mollifies his impulsiveness as he ages and by the end of Season 3, he's gotten far, far better at letting things slide and playing the games of court. Season 4, Uhtred is able to diffuse situations by making peace with enemies. Something a younger Uhtred would never have even considered. By the end, Uhtred is an extremely wise man, a famed warrior and peacemaker who gets one over on King Edward, himself an accomplished manipulator, because Uhtred sees he's not the right man to rule a united England.
Is Uhtred a bastard? Um, yes. Uhtred has a lot of viciousness under his belt. Season 1, he betrays a king he promised to help, leading to his death, which also violates an oath to Alfred (he's innocent of the Rape, Pillage, and Burn he gets framed for, at least). He also kills a man for stealing one of his trees, mostly because he's in a bad mood at the time and the guy was a convenient outlet. Again, Uhtred mollifies this as he ages but he has a definite ruthless streak that never quite goes away and is fully merciless in battle.
This said, Uhtred has a strong sense of honor, love and loyalty. He loves the people close to him, from his True Companions, from all walks of life, he can admire even his enemies, he loves his children and loved his wife Gisela and his lover Aethelflaed. He loved Ragnar and Brida remains a soft spot to him. Even after all she's done, he cannot bring himself to kill her and tries to help her find redemption after his son forgives her. Uhtred also refuses to kill children, not murdering Cnut's sons when he has them hostage and trying to rescue Brida's daughter Vibeke from falling to her death. He loves Sigtryggyr as his son in law and is heartbroken when he's forced to kill him (sigtryggyr is executed by Edward in a war someone else manipulates and requests Uhtred send him to Valhalla)
And by the end, Uhtred has grown to care for the lands, not just as a warrior, but because he cares for its ''people.'
Conclusion?
Yes by the end of the series. Absolutely.