During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tharn, Scarab, and Nocturnal.
Yup... fuck, gimme a bit and I'll update pending again.
Yes to Nocturnal.
Do we have enough examples for a page yet?
9 currently, with more likely pending.
The Gray Fox for his part does the get the better of Nocturnal in Oblivion by using an Elder Scroll to undue the curse she placed on her Gray Cowl. She's still an easy yes and she wasn't exactly actively opposing him at the time, but it does show that the Daedra aren't omniscient.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Tharn, Scarab and Nocturnal
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Niles
I mean... all things considered, nothing wrong with not being infallible, we don't want Villain Sues after all.
I got a few more ideas, Dagoth Ur maybe or maybe some Dark Brotherhood people. We'll see but I don't want to waste my time on a candidate I'm not confident about.
Dagoth Ur in particular is an intriguing idea of mine, I'm just worried if he's too out of it.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 3rd 2021 at 7:01:49 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I... really lack the knowledge of the franchise to feel qualified to help. Maybe bounce ideas around with Scraggle? He seems equally well-versed as you.
Lies and Violence!
Will wait for a few more votes before putting the second one in the sandbox.
- Tanith Low is a trained assassin and the best friend of Valkyrie Cain, who upon permanently bonding to a Remnant becomes a fervent worshipper of Darquesse and her prophesized doomsday. Entering into a relationship with Billy-Ray Sanguine, Tanith protects and assists Valkyrie while organizing the theft of the God-Killer weapons that could be used to kill her Dark Messiah. Replacing two with copies and causing security to be heightened for Dexter Vex, while simultaneously having a mole placed on his team, Tanith unleashes Dusk and an insanity virus to cause chaos at the British Sanctuary and ensure Sanguine's escape with the last weapon. Gradually growing back her conscience, Tanith betrays Darquesse and helps Valkyrie escape from her, resulting in her former goddess removing the Remnant's infection.
- Dreylan Scarab was Mevolent's top assassin and the father of Billy-Ray Sanguine, framed for the death of famed peace advocate Esryn Vanguard by Sanctuary operative Thurid Guild. Being released from prison years later, Scarab meets up with Sanguine and is offered leadership of the Revengers' Club in order to help him in his aspirations for retribution. Having them steal a Remnant and a Desolation Engine, Scarab infects the Engine's creator Professor Kenspeckle Grouse with the Remnant in order to repair the bomb and blackmails Guild into attempting to set it off on live television, desiring for Guild to be blamed for killing thousands and exposing magic to the world as the perfect revenge for being imprisoned.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Feb 3rd 2021 at 8:29:18 AM
How's this ?
- Far Cry 2: The Jackal is an infamous arms dealer, currently funding both the APR and UFLL factions in a war torn country to play them against each other. Rumoured to be dying of brain cancer, he openly uses cancer as a description of war and how it corrupts people. It is soon revealed he his helping refugees escape the country, by keeping the factions fighting each other, using underhanded tactics to prevent a ceasefire that would kill the civilians; such as stealing blood diamonds and framing the player for his killing of a warlord. Coming out on top of every encounter with the player, he eventually gets them in on his plan to save the last refugees, having the player kill the last warlords and their corrupt "Buddies". The Jackal than has the player take part in his suicide mission to ensure the last refugees escape, claiming that their own deaths are to destroy "every cell" to "keep the cancer from spreading".
Dagoth Ur is the one I'm most curious about. He absolutely has the tenacity, the charisma and the chessmaster skills for this trope. It's just everything the lore leaves vague and contradictory pertaining to Kagrenac's tools, how he acquired his divinity and whether or not he's too out of his gourd.
I suppose batshit insanity isn't necessarily a disqualifier if you're still high functioning enough to be charismatic, insightful, and have good planning skills...
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The Moron
Pothole suggestions for the Jackal:
Cultured Badass under his name
Trope "infamous Arms Dealer"
Playing Both Sides on "playing them against each other".
Frame-Up on "framing the player".
Taking You with Me on "keep the cancer from spreading".
Ok nevermind, after reading up on Dagoth Ur, he has a major meltdown right before his defeat. So he's a no go.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 3rd 2021 at 7:48:35 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
That sucks, though as you say, if you're fun and more importantly functional in your insanity it ain't a bar (Hi, Schwarzwald!)
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Scarab Tharn and Nocturnal
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I'd be lying if I said I thought that fully disqualified Dagoth Ur. It's a pretty quick moment as far as Villainous Breakdown moments go, it's fully understandable (Dagoth Ur had no reason to believe the PC would try and destroy the Heart, and Dagoth Ur also needs the Heart to live, so...) and it helps his actual final words aren't him in a panic but him merely quietly resigning himself to "the bitter, bitter end."
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 3rd 2021 at 10:27:24 AM
I'll look into it then. First though, let's get the write ups done and get the page made this week.
I think I got one from the 2nd game, Daggerfall, coming up before jumping back into Morrowind. I'm specifically thinking the Orc warlord Gortwog from Daggerfall, who's the one responsible for making the orcs accepted in the Empire and made a playable race in the later games.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Jin coming soon, lemme get these down now:
- The Elder Scrolls:
- Azura, Daedric Prince of Dusk and Dawn, is one of the few Daedric Prince who solicits mortal worship and has come to be known as one of the few "good" Daedric Princes for her charisma and ruthlessness. Azura is the one responsible for orchestrating the Nerevarine Prophecy in order to get back at the Chimer and the Tribunal for—as she claims—abusing her sacred gift the Heart of Lorkhan to achieve divinity and causing the death of her champion Nerevar. In Morrowind Azura acts as the guide for the Nerevarine, and through them seamlessly manipulates the destruction of the heart, the downfall of the Tribunal and the death of Dagoth Ur. Knowing the demise of the Tribunal would also result in the destruction of Morrowind, Azura shepherds all of her followers out of the doomed province and basks in their renewed worship, all of her divine rivals now out of the picture and her Long Game complete.
- Hircine, Daedric Prince of the Hunt and the patron of all lycanthropes, is characterized by his love of Hunting the Most Dangerous Game and distinguished by his unusually rigid code of honor for a Daedric Prince. Hircine adores the cultivation of a Worthy Opponent, always giving his prey a chance to fight back and celebrating whenever his prey turns the tables and becomes the hunter. When fighting the Nerevarine, Hircine holds back his own power and admits fighting at his full strength would be "less than sporting." No less ruthless or cunning than his brethren, Hircine coveted the great Bosmer hunter Gwaering as a trophy and so ruthlessly manipulated the feelings of her bitter would-be lover Ulthorn, sending Ulthorn on a path of conquest that would have simultaneously spread Hircine's influence all aross Valenwood and made Gwaering his own.
- Nocturnal, Daedric Prince of Night and Shadows, is one of the most mysterious of the Daedric Princes. Nocturnal wins followers through subtle influence and persuasion, spurning outright worship while coming to her would-be dedicants in times of personal crisis so she can "comfort" them and win their loyalty while they're most vulnerable. Ruthless and secretive while ever pushing her followers to strive for their best, Nocturnal's grandest outing came in Summerset when she ruthlessly manipulated Sotha Sil, the Psijiic Order, and two of her own fellow Daedric Princes Clavicus Vile and Mephala all in a bid to use the reality-warping Crystal Tower to achieve omnipotence, a goal she comes within a hairsbreadth of.
Ok, time for Robot's EP now that I've gotten the comic done.
What is the Work?
Invincible is a superhero comic by Robert Kirkman of The Walking Dead fame, published by Image comics. It centers on Mark Grayson, the superhero known as Invincible, and the son of Nolan and Debbie Grayson, the former a mild mannered sci fi writer who...is secretly the world' greatest superhero Omni-Man and Mark finds out day his powers have manifested. Nolan is a member of the seemingly benevolent Viltrumite race, advanced superpowered humanoid aliens who have traveled through the cosmos, spreading peace and justice.
In reality, turns out the Viltrumites are a brutal and warmongering race that have destroyed entire worlds in the past, and one of their own members(who leads the Coalition of Planets opposing the Viltrumites), horrified at their actions, created a virus that destroyed almost the entirety of their actions. Nolan was sent to earth by the survivors to infiltrate it and facilitate it's takeover, with the Viltrumites wanting to breed with humans to create a new Viltrumite race and rebuild their empire.
Early on, Nolan makes his move and kills a good chunk Earth's top superheroes and reveals his true intentions in Issue 12 to Mark. Now Mark refuses and Nolan beats him to a pulp, but can't bring himself to kill his son, leaving the Earth in shame.
Now, despite being built up as the initial Big Bad, Nolan actually redeems himself very early on and I would say that rather than have a singular big bad, the comic series has a couple of key arc villains. This however changes in the successive issues following the invasion of various Mirror Universe Invincibles plus the arrival of Conquest and Mark going off into space to help Nolan, Allan the Alien, and the Coalition fight the Viltrumite Empire, with the comic settling on three important recurring villains, the Eco-Terrorist known as Dinosaurs, Grand-Regent Thragg, who has been previously effortposted in the CM thread, and our MB candidate, who I can describe as:
What if Robot from Doom Patrol went Iron Man, and then went full Doctor Doom?
Who is he?
Rudolph Conners, known to the public as the Superhero Robot, is the leader of the Teen Team, a group of teenage superheroes.
What does he do?
While fighting the super-villains known as the Mauler Twins, Robot and the other members of the Teen Team run into Invincible. Initially he and the Teen Team are involved in some superhero stuff teaming up with Invincible.
Following the defeat of David Hiles the Guardians of the Globe send a membership request to Robot. In light of this, Robot calls a meeting with the other members of the Teen Team. He informs them that he will be accepting the request and because of it will be shutting down the Teen Team. The other members congratulate him on the membership request and tell him they are fine with him shutting down the team. Robot said his goodbyes to his former team members and departed to try out for the Guardians of the Globe.
Upon Nolan's murder of the Guardians, Robot was appointed the head of a new team by Director of Global Defense Agency Cecil Stedman(through he eventually loses this position to a revived Immortal, who's essentially a heroic version of Vandal Savage). Many issues later we learn that Robot is not actually a pure machine, but a deformed fetus that is unable to interact with the outside world due to a degenerative condition that reduced his body to a deformed fetus. He needs machines to interact with the world, and begins the process of rebuilding his body.
To do so, he takes a DNA sample from hero Rex Splode to form the basis for his new body, presumably because his teammate Monster girl, who he is attracted to, finds that body attractive. He recruits, with promise of payment, the Mauler Twins to build his new body, to which he transfers his mind to. Upon waking up in his new body, he finds a small part of his mind remained in his old body wishing for the new cloned version of himself to end his suffering. The cloned version obeys this request and kills his original body.
The Mauler Twins then demand their payment, but Robot tells them they will be going back to prison, revealing he has fooled the Maulers into thinking he will actually pay them all along. Robot then uses a gigantic robotic drone to fight the Maulers, easily subduing and apprehending the pair of criminals. Later on, due to a fallout between Invincible and Cecil(regarding the latter's attempts to rehabilitate villains to serve the government), Robot will leave the Guardians of the Globe alongside Monster Girl, Atom Eve, Rex Splode, and Bulletproof and form a new superhero team. When Rex sacrifices himself during the attack of the Mirror Universe versions of Invincible, Rudolph takes on his name in honor of his friend.
A few more issues later, during a battle with extradimensional beings called Flaxans, Rudolph and Monster Girl chase the Flaxans to their home dimension where they seek to tear down the Flaxan Empire from within. Taking advantage of the fact that time passes slower for humans and many of the Flaxans' captives from various other dimensions to the point a human can live for millennia there(conversely time passes very fast for Flaxans on Earth and their lifespan is as short as a Mayfly's on Earth without the right technology), Rudolph and Amanda(Monster Girl's real name) initiate a centuries long plot to bring the Flaxans to their knees.
Following an earlier failed revolt initiated by Rudolph, Rudolph uses the rebuilding of the entire city of Klaxia from the ground up, which was previously destroyed by Omni-Man, as a means to encourage the Flaxans to notice the progress they are making and send slave workers to assist in the rebuilding. At the same time, such slave workers who have no love for the Flaxan people will have heard the tales from generations ago about Robot almost taking the Flaxan throne room. Robot then tells Monster Girl that through these slave workers who will be devoted to him will eventually follow him in a revolt to take the city of Klaxia for themselves.
Eventually they succeed and Rudolph becomes the new Emperor of the Flaxans. He and Amanda decline to return to Earth, seeing that they're needed here. Rudolph tries his best to rule fairly and things seem alright at first. However his rule has a dark side. He punishes the Flaxan ruling class, represented by the Zaxal family, with work in the Slave mines. At the same time, he and Amanda's relationship starts to strain, with the latter discovering her bisexuality and having an affair with a Zaxal descendant; eventually sympathizing with the Zaxals. She helps the Zaxals attempt a coup on Rudolph, initially they succeed but the Zaxals seek to turn the Flaxans to their evil ways in the past once again and she realizes that Rudolph was right about them. She breaks Rudolph out of jail and they remove the Zaxals from power. Eventually they return to earth after 700 years in the Flaxan dimension, with one of Rudolph's last acts being to order the purge of the Zaxals and all their loyalists before leaving.
Upon returning to Earth, Rudolph becomes the coordinator of every superhero team on the planet, but his relationship with Amanda is very strained, especially in light of the affair she had with the Zaxal woman. Eventually, back in the Flaxan dimension, the Zaxals take over again and attack the Earth, Rudolph calls in every available superhero and superhero team on the planet, then suits up in one of his own construct armors and enters the battle against the Flaxans himself as Robot. Despite it being revealed that the leader of the Zaxals was Monster Girl’s son, Rudolph discovers that he still loves Amanda, and they get back together at the end of the Flaxan invasion arc.
Rudolph would eventually, after Dinosaurs’ final plan to wipe out civilization, build two artificial moons to rotate around the Earth to restore the tide levels, which was really screwed over by Dinosaurs. Despite this however, Invincible gets all the credit for saving the world from Dinosaurus' attacks despite being willing to work with Dinosaurus in the past, while he gets no credit despite being the one who constructed the artificial moons that reverted the flood waters. This leads to Rudolph starting to resent Mark.
During a trip to an alternate reality to track down Angstrom Levy, one of Mark’s more personal enemies who was taken by one of the Mirrorverse!Invincibles, Robot sees that said Invincible was the ruler of that dimension where the Viltrumites took over the Earth. He also became aware that in many, many dimensions in the multiverse, Mark turns evil; the implication being that Atomic Eve(Mark’s Love Interest) dying in many of these universes led him down a dark path(in some other dimensions it was a classic morality flip or Nolan succeeds in converting Mark to his side). Knowing this causes Robot’s resentment and fear of Mark to boil over, activating a device to stun both versions of Invincible in inconceivable pain. Robot then shoots an explosive device down the throat of the parallel version of Invincible, killing him after a few seconds by causing his head to explode. Robot then moves his focus to Angstrom and cuts his head off, killing the villain instantly. Invincible then asks why Robot is doing what he is doing, with Robot telling his former friend that he has big plans for the future.
Big plans that he sees Invincible to be a threat against.
Invincible somehow manages to escape with the help of that Dimension’s Rudolph, who never created a new body for himself. During that time however, Rudolph has created a new army, and gained Cecil's permission to access the Global Defense Agency emergency protocols, wanting to analyze and prepare for them when he eventually makes his move. When Mark warns Cecil, Cecil tries to revoke the protocol access for Rudolph, only for Rudolph to kill him by cutting his head off and stomping on it.
Robot dispatches one of his new and improved drone constructs to Mark's home, hoping to gain Mark to his side by threatening Eve. Mark refuses and a fight breaks out that sees Eve lose her leg. Robot escapes and launches his purge, with his drones deploying around the world and killing a large number of heroes. During this time, Monster Girl confronts Robot and the latter tells the former to join him. She refuses and Robot reluctantly shoots her out into space, but is very, very remorseful at doing so.
Upon hearing that the Viltrumites have saved Monster Girl, Rudolph establishes links to Omni-Man, who has ascended to the throne of their empire following his ouster of Thragg. Despite Mark’s protests, Nolan establishes an alliance between the Viltrumites and Robot. During this part of the story we learned that Rudolph actually hoped that the Viltrumites would have saved Amanda.
With the majority of Earth's superheroes either captured or dead, or even gone over to Robot’s side, and the Viltrumites now working with him, the world leaders make Robot the new head of the Global Defense Agency in light of Cecil's death. The Global Defense Agency is given almost absolute control over Earth, essentially making Robot the Shadow Dictator of the planet. This is done with the help of the second incarnation of Invincible, Zandale Randolph, who acted as a mole that helped arrest many heroes that were moving against him.
And...he isn’t that tyrannical of a ruler. Sure he’s a dictator but he deals effectively with many villains, puts a decisive end to war and poverty, offers free education for everyone, decriminalizes all the drugs, and brings forth universal healthcare. The relative light-handedness of his rule makes it hard for any resistance to be sustained against him, with an attempted effort by Monster girl to break out many of the heroes locked up by him resulting in a large number of the prisoners simply ‘’giving up’’ and willingly joining Rudolph when they find that there’s nothing they can dig out to turn the population against him. This chain of events causes Invincible to decide to leave Earth with Eve and their daughter Terra, seeing that he is no longer needed and no one is willing to raise up arms against Rudolph.
Five years later Invincible returns to Earth, which has just sucessfully withstood an extra-dimensional invasion thanks to Rudolph and Nolan’s efforts. Invincible tries to get Nolan to see his side of things, claiming that Rudolph may have staged a False Flag Attack with the invasion to manipulate people into “coming together” in subservience(the comic offers no evidence if Mark is telling the truth). Nolan disagrees, saying that Rudolph has made Earth very hospitable for the surviving Viltrumites. Rudolph tries to get Mark to see his point of view as well, which Mark rejects yet agaom.
Rudolph does not appear again until the final arc of the series, when Invincible leads the Coalition, pursued by Thragg, to Earth to enlist the surviving Viltrumites’ help against Thragg, he will participate in the battle against Thragg, even sending a suit of armor for Mark when he is fighting Thragg in the Sun. When Thragg’s empire is defeated, but at the cost of Nolan’s life, Robot turns against the Viltrumites, seeing that Mark would be a future threat. He reveals that he has the children of the Viltrumites held captive and uses them as a bargaining chip to convince the Viltrumites to stand down; there being also the implication he seeks to convert them into soldiers when they are much older. This however, convinces the Viltrumites that Robot needs to be stopped. Mark chases Robot to earth and rallies all the heroes and Viltrumites to his side, confronting Robot at the Pentagon.
There, Robot’s reluctance at fighting Monster Girl led to Monster Girl alerting Mark which suit of armor Rudolph was in. Mark then confronts Rudolph, who claims that without him, the world will fall back to chaos once again. Mark takes note, but kills him anyways, but understanding that Robot did genuinely create a better world, decided to keep Robot’s mind alive in a supercomputer deep in the Pentagon so he can continue to share his ideas to the world, only this time these ideas will be filtered through The Immortal so Robot can’t use this as an opportunity to exert control again.
On the epilogue, we see Amanda and the Immortal talking in the room Rudolph’s mind is in. Rudolph tries to talk to Amanda, only for her to reject him for good. Rudolph accepts his fate and perhaps recognizing that at the end, his desire for power and to “fix” the world had only driven away all those he cared about.
What makes the character a Magnificent Bastard?
Well Rudolph/Rex/Robot is, apart from being very smart, perfectly willing to use others to get what he wants, disposing them if need be. We see this even before he launches his coup on the Guardians when he tricks two supervillains into repairing his body. He also takes advantage of the mission to the mirror Earth to trap Invincible in there, and get back with enough time to plan his coup.
He is a master strategist employing various tactics to deal with villains and other threats, and is also implied to be very charismatic, seeing how his centuries-long plan with Amanda to destroy the Flaxan empire involves inspiring slaves with his failed first revolt against the Emperor. The very fact that he successfully brought down an empire by carrying through a plan that had been set in motion for centuries is rather magnificent in itself.
And as the Shadow Dictator of Earth? He actually provides a good quality of life for his subjects, and learns from some of his mistakes as Flaxan emperor such as using the carrot extensively, rather than use cohesive methods. The lack of genuine tyranny in his rule over Earth combined with the fact that he genuinely tried to solve many world issues was the reason why a good chunk of heroes simply decided to throw in the towel, and why Marc, who was already angesting over the damage he caused with superpowers, decided to leave Earth with his family. This was also probably why his mind was preserved after Mark killed his body.
Too much of a bastard?
Ok so regarding his more bastardly acts he: Enslaves the entire ruling class of the Flaxan Empire in slave mines Launches a massive purge of the pro-Zaxal ruling class factions, including the woman Amanda was in an affair with. This was why the Zaxals sought vengeance on Earth when they took power the third time: their leader was Amanda and the Zaxal woman’s son. Tried to trap Invincible in an evil Mirror Universe Launched a coup against the Global Defense Agency, brutally killing Cecil, cutting off one of Eve’s legs, and killing many heroes When Thragg attacks Earth, he kidnaps the children of the Viltrumites with the goal of eventually turning them into an unstoppable army to fight against Thragg. Turning against Invincible and using the Viltrumite children as a bargaining chip to get them to stand down, this turns the Superhero community and the Viltrumites against him.
However, for me, most of these actions have a purpose to them. The Flaxans existed as a slave empire raiding from dimension to dimension to extract slaves and wealth. Rudolph wanted to turn them into a force for good, but when his actions started to stagnate the economy, he deployed the Zaxals as slaves to develop the economy because he wanted an alternative that would not cause the Flaxans to revert to their warlike ways.
Purging the Zaxals and the pro-Zaxal factions before returning to Earth is bad, but we don’t really see the insight on why he does this, and given the fact that the first thing the Zaxals do upon launching their attempted second coup is attempt to revert the Flaxans to their expansionist ways, perhaps he could potentially see the Zaxals as an obstacle to peace in the dimension.
And you can argue that he learns from these experiences at ruling and genuinely tried to make his second go at ruling an entire civilization more hands off, using drones instead of any form of Slave labor, as well as working with elected leaders from behind as a Shadow Dictator rather than overthrowing all of them and putting them to work in slave mines “in the place of the people”.
Now his attempt at seizing power was very brutal, but we never see his drones attack and target civilian targets, they generally tried to focus solely on targeting the heroes opposed to him. He does kill Cecil in a very gore-y and cut off one of Eve’s legs, but this is a series where Gorn and body parts exploding happens on an issue-y basis and the main character was horrifically mutilated many times before.
Even abducting Viltrumite children has a purpose in itself, he sees Mark as an enemy and Mark has stated time and time again that he would never join him, he also knows the strong bonds Viltrumites have built with humans and perhaps believes that abducting Viltrumite children
He also has some redeeming qualities to soften the bastardry. He does genuinely see himself as benefitting the rest of the world and seems to genuinely love Amanda, he expresses genuine remorse at having to airlock Amanda and expresses relief when she is alive with it being clear that he ‘’wanted’’ someone to save her; it is his reluctance to harm Amanda that does him in, he also genuinely didn’t want to kill Mark and wanted him to join him. In the end of issue 114, there is a scene where he thinks back to the past adventures he’s had with the heroes he had to kill or alienate and he puts his face to his hands in shame at what he did, which indicates remorse at his actions. Further indication that he has some remorse happens at the very end of the story, when he accepts his fate as a brain in a Jar and perhaps wonders if he went too far.
And frankly? I do think that the writers wanted to portray him as a tyrant but we never see what bad things happen under his watch. He quite literally creates a wholesome chungus 100 utopian society if you ignore the dictatorship. There are people in the setting that killed more than him and even the claim about him deliberately bringing in extradimensional invaders to consolidate power is a claim only advanced by Mark with little in the panels to prove or disprove the allegations. Which means I am going to have to write it off as a conspiracy theory.
Even his crime of abducting Viltrumite children pales in comparison to some other characters like Thragg’s own use of Child soldiers and the implications there.
This is a case where a lack of Show, Don't Tell combined with some rather blatant Protagonist-Centered Morality at the end surrounding just how unpleasant this character is actually benefits the character's chances of qualifying. This is in part due to the final arcs being rather...rushed.
Other Mitigating Factors?
Now at one point he was listed under The Scrappy on Invincible, which may be an issue. But after looking into the Reddit for Invincible as well as some Youtube comments, I can conclude that said entry was misplaced and that Robot does have enough of a fan following to avoid being labeled a scrappy. So I removed it.
Now there are allegations that his behavior sounds very Villain Sue-y. However, while you can disagree, I don’t really see it. Part of the reason why he comes off as being extremely sucessful is that we never see what his rule is like apart from a few glimpses,with most of the post-coup chapters focusing on Mark and his family settling in Space. As for how he took power, I think there are a few panels that mention that Cecil granted him access to the emergency protocols, and there was a panel where he mentions building a new type of Drone for launching a coup. So I think theres some explanation rather than “Robot got deus ex machina powers from nowhere” and part of the reason why his arc feels a bit off is due to the lack of focus on Earth and the rushed conclusion of the comic
Verdict?
You decide.
Edited by xie323 on Feb 3rd 2021 at 10:00:10 AM
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sorry dude, but that's like eight paragraphs too long. If you're able to shorten that, you really should.
Yeah, I think that could stand to be massively trimmed too.
Someone said we needed a page for Elder Scrolls?
Yes there.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.