Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
NightmareFuel.Dwarf Fortress is pretty messy. I cleaned up some of the more blatant issues but there's still a lot that sounds like exaggeration (giant sponges and a mouthless demon penguin are listed as examples; apparently the people who wrote that page believe danger is synonymous with scariness).
The Tick 2016 is pretty bad. I think it's safe to cut in its entirety.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, cut the whole thing. Virtually everything in that show is Played for Laughs, and even what little isn't is not scary.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
- TNMT: A good chunk of those "examples" are ZCE, so at the very least we can clean those up.
- Dwarf Fortress: Yeahhh, there's a lot of exaggerations there. I guess cut whatever example is using "dangerous" to mean "scary"
- The Tick: Yeah, why not? Cut.
Well, Rooster Teeth has started a new show called gen:LOCK and a lot of the RWBY fandom is watching it. It's only reached five episodes and I've already had to clean the NightmareFuel.Gen Lock page (and people are already trying to add back the speculation, Fridge and in-universe character reactions that have been removed). The remaining examples are as follows:
I have not included the fifth episode because I think that's not available for the general public yet. I've also put the entries into a folder just in case anyone hasn't started watching the show but wants to.
The Pilot
- As The Union invades New York, a soldier is about to kill a family. It's only when the father raises a badge with the Union logo that the soldier stands down and walks off. These guys aren't conflicted about killing anyone in their path, not even civilians and children.
- The Union's nanotech swarms. They have the wonderful ability to disassemble any living thing in their path that isn't Union-affiliated, as one unlucky Vanguard pilot discovers when his mech is breached. His terrified eyes as he's eaten alive by the nanobots provide the page image.
There's Always Tomorrow
- The description of the gen:LOCK technology is unnerving, and doesn't bode well for the other pilots. Dr. Weller tells the Anvil base officers that the new mechs are piloted by "decanted human minds that run on a mainframe".
- What's left of Julian is a nasty case of Body Horror: he lost both legs and his right arm, and his brain has been digitised and uploaded into the computing systems within the Anvil base. Oh, and he can't leave the tank that serves as his life-support system. Migas mentions that the ESU has re-gen technology that could allow for recovery of his body (even if damage this severe has only been recovered in a select few cases), if it weren't for the fact that Chase didn't lose his arm and legs in the crash - he lost it to Union nanobots. Those nanobots devouring his body were also the only reason he was still alive when the ESU found him.
- Most of the gen:LOCK recruits except for Yasamin, who is armed, take cover when the bullets begin to fly. Cammie, however, is visibly terrified and curls up in the fetal position, clearly scared out of her mind. It's a stark reminder that while all of the other compatible recruits for the gen:LOCK program are military personnel that have seen some combat by this point, Cammie is only seventeen. To make things even worse, one of the soldiers being devoured falls down in front of her, and the poor girl can only watch, hands over her mouth and wide eyed in terror.
- Sinclair then tries to plug himself into a gen:LOCK pod. Dr. Weller calmly lets him, knowing full well that the spy's inherent lack of compatability would kill him. His prolonged screams, red-tinted face and eyeballs, and bleeding out of his nose and ears are all shown before the camera cuts away. Dr. Weller then likens trying to gen:LOCK without compatibility to "putting your brain in a microwave".
Training Daze
- Everything about Nemesis, the Union mech that ambushes the team at Dallas. It wields Union nano-tech, has four clawed and spindly arms, and manages to rip the head off of Cammie's Holon before going straight for her chest where the cyberbrain is located, indicating intelligence. Her screams don't help matters either. It was confirmed in the episode before that the pilots retain normal sensory input while gen:LOCKed - meaning Cammie actually felt her head being ripped off and something ripping her chest apart with its bare hands. Meanwhile, while it was fighting, it speaks twice in a distorted voice. What is it saying? "Save me."
Not to mention the image page is Just A Face And A Caption
Just so you know, gen:LOCK is exclusive to First members. It will never be available to the general public.
I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know.
Yes, I was going to take that to the Image Pickin' thread.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:03:42 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Xiaolin Chronicles probably needs to be junked; it was created in 2014, hasn't been touched since, and only contains three examples - isn't there a certain number requirement to create a page?
Either way, they're all pretty hyperbole. Especially the first one since that episode is played for comedy start to finish, and is even listed as a Breather Episode / Idiot Plot on the main and YMMY page.
Xiaolin Showdown is warranted; the show has some frightening moments, but the page itself could use a touch up. There's also this huge example with Hannibal Roy Bean that reads like a summary of his character / what he did in the show than anything else.
Okay, the clean-up I did of the gen:LOCK thread has been undone; the edit reason claims that they're fixing 'vandalism' (among other things). They have therefore restored scene summaries, Fridge Horror, fandom speculation, and incorrect Example Indentation.
Given the situation, I do need some help on what to do next. The page currently looks like this:
The Pilot
- As The Union invades New York, a soldier is about to kill a family. It's only when the father raises a badge with the Union logo that the soldier stands down and walks off. These guys aren't conflicted about killing anyone in their path, not even civilians and children.
- This is just a scene summary. Remove.
- The giant Union walker getting into New York Harbor undetected. Think about it for a moment: something the size of a skyscraper managed to, without being seen or picked up by sensors, march right into New York Harbor and knock over the Statue of Liberty.
- I removed this for being Fridge Horror. It's been added back but is still just a Fridge Horror entry. Remove.
- The Union's nanotech swarms. They have the wonderful ability to disassemble any living thing in their path that isn't Union-affiliated, as one unlucky Vanguard pilot discovers when his mech is breached. His terrified eyes as he's eaten alive by the nanobots provide the page image.
- As Silverblade points out, the page image (based on this scene) is just a face and a caption. And that's pretty much all we see of what the nanotech is doing to him. The rest of this entry is just a scene summary. Is this salvageable?
There's Always Tomorrow
- What's left of Julian is a nasty case of Body Horror: he lost both legs and his right arm, and his brain has been digitised and uploaded into the computing systems within the Anvil base. Oh, and he can't leave the tank that serves as his life-support system.
- Migas mentions that the ESU has re-gen technology that could allow for recovery of his body (even if damage this severe has only been recovered in a select few cases), if it weren't for the fact that Chase didn't lose his arm and legs in the crash - he lost it to Union nanobots. Those nanobots devouring his body were also the only reason he was still alive when the ESU found him.
- I combined these two bullets into a single example because the first bullet is just scene summary, the second explains the real horror of Julian's situation. Put together, I think they might be a salvageable entry. However, the person who undid all the edits has split this back out into two separate bullet points, including restoring the illegal indentation. I still recommend combining this into a single entry to keep.
- Migas mentions that the ESU has re-gen technology that could allow for recovery of his body (even if damage this severe has only been recovered in a select few cases), if it weren't for the fact that Chase didn't lose his arm and legs in the crash - he lost it to Union nanobots. Those nanobots devouring his body were also the only reason he was still alive when the ESU found him.
- The Reveal that Sinclair is a Union spy. After the guards sent to take Sinclair into custody explain the situation, the latter laments being discovered before revealing that the coin he's carrying is actually made out of Union nanobots. Before anybody can sound the alarm, "Sinclair" and the nanobots then proceed to mop the floor with the guards, escape the room, and kidnap Dr. Weller.
- A scene summary that I originally removed. It was added back but is still only a scene summary. Remove.
- A bit of Paranoia Fuel to keep you up at night: if Union nanotech can disguise itself as a coin, what other innocuous-seeming items might just be nanoswarms waiting to strike?
- Fridge Horror that I originally removed. It's been added back but is still just Fridge Horror. Remove.
- Most of the gen:LOCK recruits except for Yasamin, who is armed, take cover when the bullets begin to fly. Cammie, however, is visibly terrified and curls up in the fetal position, clearly scared out of her mind. It's a stark reminder that while all of the other compatible recruits for the gen:LOCK program are military personnel that have seen some combat by this point, Cammie is only seventeen.
- To make things even worse, one of the soldiers being devoured falls down in front of her, and the poor girl can only watch, hands over her mouth and wide eyed in terror.
- Again, I originally combined these two into a single entry to solve the Example Indentation problem. I didn't remove the entry but my concern is that it's describing a character reaction, which isn't the trope. The person who undid my edits restored the Example Indentation back to its original, incorrect formatting. I recommend removing this entry because it's only a character reaction. Is there anything salvageable here?
- Dr. Weller, at "Sinclair"'s behest, orders Caliban to upload the spy to a Holon...knowing full well that "Sinclair"'s lack of gen:LOCK compatibility will kill him. At first, the procedure seems as though it's going okay...and then the upload console starts flashing warning messages. "Sinclair" then screams in agony as he begins violently convulsing, blood starts pouring out of his nose and ears, and his face turns red. The camera cuts away to the horrified reactions of the gen:LOCK recruits and Col. Marin, and when it's cut back the upload console is emitting a Flatline.
- This is just a scene summary. I didn't delete it the previous time but I did rewrite what was originally a ZCE (see my previous post). I wasn't convinced my rewrite was keep-worthy but this has been rewritten to be a scene summary with character reaction. So, it's not the trope at all. Is this salvageable?
Training Daze
- Everything about Nemesis, the Union mech that ambushes the team at Dallas. It wields Union nano-tech, has four clawed and spindly arms, and manages to rip the head off of Cammie's Holon. Her screams don't help matters either.
- It was confirmed in the episode before that the pilots retain normal sensory input while gen:LOCKed - meaning Cammie actually felt her head being ripped off and something ripping her chest apart with its bare hands.
- What's truly scary is the way it moves. The Vanguard Holons move and act like humans, because there are human minds piloting them. But Nemesis behaves erratically and fights viciously, like an animal or a human in a berserker state. It approaches with a slow, slouching gait, almost like a zombie, then attacks Cammie furiously, trying to rip her Holon apart with its claws. Whatever intelligence is behind that thing, it's anything but human. Or even worse, it is, and this what they've been reduced to.
- Not only that, it was tearing her Holon apart to get to the cyberbrain. As unstable as it might be, it's smart enough to know where the Holons' weakpoint is.
- Twice during the fight, you can hear a distorted voice coming out of Nemesis. What is it saying? "Save me."
- I turned this into a single entry (see previous post) because: the first and second bullets were just scene summaries, the third bullet is getting into audience reaction but contains some speculation (which I removed). The fourth bullet is scene summary, the fifth bullet I can't verify because I never heard it talk during that entire fight, but I'm also partially deaf so could have missed it and therefore left it in. By combining all these bullets into a single example, I came up with an entry that fit the trope. However, the troper who undid my edits has restored all the original Example Indentation, which isn't correct indentation.
The Best Defense
- The episode opens with Cammie having a nightmare where she's the size of a Holon and being chased through an abandoned city by a gigantic Nemesis made out of nanobots. After Nemesis claws her in the back, Cammie falls over, and gets up to witness her left arm turning into the arm of her Holon endoskeleton. Her body then begins disintegrating into blue pixels, and Cammie screams in terror before waking up.
- I originally removed this for being a scene summary. It's been added back but it's still just a scene summary. Remove.
- Cammie discovers that when uploaded to the Holons, pilots have the ability to manually edit their personalities. Doing so haphazardly leads her into a psychotic feedback loop, which causes her to savagely beat Kazu, and fight off Yaz and Chase as they try to pull her off. Weller later implies that her state could have resulted in a full psychotic break.
- This is a scene summary. Remove.
- Although eventually she decides against it, Cammie also discovers that pilots can delete specific memories. She never mentions this when she awakes, and unlike her personality modifications there's no indication Weller is aware she found this.
- Incorrect indentation, but just more scene summary. Remove.
- Weller, for his part, offers an unsettling response to Cammie's actions - despite being alerted that she bypassed the safety protocols for personality edits, and prompted to reset them himself, he instead seems content to just see what happens. While ostensibly used as an teaching moment for Cammie, he ignores her spiraling state until Leon demands he remotely download her from the Holon.
- Incorrect indentation, but just more scene summary. Remove.
- Nemesis returns in all its twitchy, terrifying glory, except this time it speaks, showing a surprising amount of knowledge about Miranda and Cammie in the process. The worst part? It's talking in Chase's voice, the implications of which are...disturbing, to say the least. And it's all made even creepier by its last line in the episode, directed at Chase.
- It's fandom speculation that it's Chase's voice (we don't know and not all of the fandom is convinced it's Chase's voice). Implications are speculations about future events. The quote below is also misusing Wham Line because the line doesn't change anything about the scene and there was foreshadowing the previous episode because it only turned tail and ran when it saw Miranda. As a result, I removed the entry for being a scene summary and speculation. It's been added back, including with the sinkholes. Remove.
Nemesis: Miranda?Nemesis: (to Cammie) You think too loud. You haven't shut up since your birthday.Nemesis: Let the good times roll.Nemesis: (to Chase) Copy... Kill copy.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 18th 2019 at 2:21:10 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
At this point, I think the best option is to remove all the misuse again and quickly get the page locked before someone adds it back.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Wouldn't that be an edit war? Someone else would have to do it. Linking this thread as an edit reason, of course... Wyldchyld's reason did explain everything and mention the thread, though, so can't help but assume the edit-changer didn't actually bother to check the history.
But, yeah. Jeez, that page is awful and these people need to chill out.
Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:29:37 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
At this point, we may as well lock any Nightmare Fuel page related to RBWY/Rooster Teeth since their fandom has proved woefully unable to determine what is and isn't Nightmare Fuel. Forcing them to go through this thread (or a specific thread) to add examples may well force them to learn that.
Hi
I locked the page and NightmareFuel.RWBY...which other pages need to have the same treatment?
Edited by Willbyr on Feb 19th 2019 at 5:59:55 AM
The gen:LOCK page needs to be rolled back to Wyldchyld's last edit, as all the misuse is still present.
Hi
Done...I think. I hope I didn't bollux something between the work page and the NF page.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Glad to see the pages are locked, that'll save quite a bit of headache.
Wizards of Waverly Place could use a cleanup. I see a bunch of shoehorns.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Thanks, Willbyr. Hopefully, not too many pages will need it.
How do we function with the locked pages? I think the gen:LOCK page still needs a clean-up as most of the entries and Example Indentation issues are still present.
Do we sandbox a locked page, agree the content and then request a moderator update the page? I'm not sure how this works.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I believe making a sandbox is how it works, yes.
The Unknown Unknown
Yeah, once we settle on examples, you go a certain thread, I believe it's "locked pages and edit requests" (something like that), and request the changes.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Forget Wizards of Waverly Place... I just came across this page. Let's clean it up.
Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 19th 2019 at 12:19:19 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Guys, the edit lock on NightmareFuel.Gen Lock isn't working.
A troper has managed to get trope misuse added to the locked page by going to the edit requests thread and requesting an entry (he's the same troper that added every single RWBY episode to RWBY's page as 'adding an episode's core'). If trope misuse can be added by request, doesn't it make locking the page pointless? Should suggestions be vetted here first?
I've created a sandbox for gen:LOCK. Feedback would be helpful in case I've missed anything (the original entries are in a folder at the bottom of the sandbox).
Sandbox.Nightmare Fuel Gen Lock
The Only Me I Know
- The introduction of this episode changes to include an unsettling Jump Scare of Julian in the Union's colours.
- This actually isn't visible unless you freeze-frame in exactly the right place to spot the hidden scene. In other words, you have to actively look for it to know this scene exists.
- Nemesis is revealed to be the original version of Julian Chase, which got abducted by the Union some time before the series started and corrupted beyond repair. The Julian we know is a backup copy of the original brain, which got downloaded into his body once the real Chase got abducted.
- This is just a scene summary.
- The last scene shows the Behemoth crashing to the ground near the Anvil's landing bays, and turning the Union smoke loose. Given how quick it spread out, it's implied that everyone in the Anvil base died within seconds, thereby wiping out most of the cast in a brutal rejection of Plot Armor.
- This is Fridge Horror. He's also wrong about the implication, but it doesn't matter because the entry is nothing more than speculation anyway.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 24th 2019 at 10:34:09 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Sandbox looks fine to me. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
I'd lose the image, though, since it's Just a Face and a Caption, and I'd reword the text above the examples to:
When you bring it to the Edit Requests thread, you should ask them to decline any further edits to the page, unless they were approved by this thread.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the nightmare fuel pages for TMNT 2003 and X-Men that I brought up on the last page?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15046601260A53602600&page=35#comment-865
Edited by Overlord on Feb 8th 2019 at 12:17:16 PM