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It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
If it's about real life, then it should probably be cut.
NightmareFuel.Pokemon Crystal Kaizo's entries are mainly just about strong Pokemon or traps, and NightmareFuel.Mario Plush Forever is... there are no words. (I tried cutlisting the latter once but it was denied. The main and YMMV pages are also....in need of fixing.)
Edited by lalalei2001 on Oct 12th 2018 at 3:59:41 PM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I got rid of these examples from that Pokemon page for being about difficulty rather than scariness:
- The fact that you can't use Revives or Ethers in battle. This can actually put a lot of pressure on the player, as the boss battles become a whole lot scarier now that there are stakes for losing even one Pokemon or running out of PP. And if you go into a trainer battle with a weakened party of Pokemon, it becomes a lot more tense. Suddenly, random critical hits become a lot scarier since it's almost guaranteed to kill you if you weren't expecting it, and you can't revive your Pokemon...
- You are in danger of losing 24/7. Every trainer in the game is much smarter and have much better Pokemon, meaning the chances of losing to them are really high, and a good 90% of them are completely unavoidable, makes it seem like every trainer in the game is out to get you. And let's be honest; THEY ACTUALLY ARE.
- It gets better. The female grunt with a full team of six and a Slowbro? Her last Pokemon is a Miltank. Nope, this isn't the last time you will ever see Miltank torture you.
- The Pokemon League can actually feel a lot more intimidating than the original, since it didn't have their own indoor background music, but several tracks used in each room can be considered quite ominous. Considering the fact that at this point, not only do the Elite Four and Champion have some of the best teams in the game, but the fact that all of them are higher than level 110.
- On a more meta level, when you get into Victory Road, which is very dark and made much larger, you soon encounter the Rival, who seems to have found a method of becoming stronger. You fight him, and you see that his lead Pokemon is Level 102. And you are still stuck at level 100, and it is there you realize the game stops pulling its punches.
And this for being Fridge Horror:
- All over the southern parts of Kanto (Pallet Town, Cycling Road, Fuchsia, the southern routes that lead to Fuchsia, the Kanto Sea Routes), and even some parts of Johto leading into Kanto, such as Route 27 and New Bark Town, you see large rocky rubble dispersed all over the place, implying a particularly powerful eruption...
- It gets worse when you realize that Blaine, the Cinnabar Gym Leader has an Entei, who is said to be born after a volcanic eruption, and can trigger eruptions by roaring...
Cut this from Nightmare Fuel Zelda OOT for being Fridge Horror.
- And in one branch of the timeline, Link lost.note
Also I personally never found this scary, but given that kids bought this game at six at the youngest, I'm willing to bite. Although I'd cut the windmill theme since it says unsettling and not scary.
The face of the organ player in the windmill (evil/angry version). For that matter, the Windmill Hut's songnote is just unsettling and creepy to some.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 12th 2018 at 1:01:47 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
- Nightmare Fuel: What this movie is about is basically this. The most sadistic, insane,cruel, and almost downright inhuman of Batmans Rouge Gallery has his own film and there’s no Batman around to even stop him.
Is it bad considering there's not even a trailer of this film yet.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
It also violates Examples Are Not General. I cut it.
In Daredevil (2015), there's this not creepy picture in the season 3 episode 6 folder.
That picture is so dark, I can't even tell what's going on or what show it's from. It looks completely generic.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Ace Attorney Phoenix Wright Dual Destinies probably shouldn't have a page as it is rated M. Most of it is Fridge Horror and the stuff that isn't talks about stuff that is common in M rated games like Eleven Year old Athena covered in blood with a creepy smile. Yes it's scary for AA standards but not for an M rated game.
This is the picture in question:
Edited by Klavice on Oct 28th 2018 at 6:01:01 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
So, a sequel to Undertale came out today. It already has a nightmare fuel page even though only the first chapter is available. I removed the most blatant speculation and Fridge Horror, but I'd like some input on these entries:
(since we're not supposed to discuss the game today, I'll put it in a folder to hide it from those who have yet to play)
- The beginning when you are offered to customize your vessel. The wording and how it is presented (underneath your SOUL, you are presented a scroll menu of body parts against a strange dark and nightmarish moving background while ominous music lightly plays) makes the whole concept feel more clinical and unsettling than it usually is in other games — perhaps as a Take That! by addressing how invasive the idea of customizing a living being sounds.
Select a head that you prefer.
Select the torso that you prefer.
Select the legs that you prefer.
This is your body. Do you accept it? [YES] [NO]
[YES] Excellent. You have created a wonderful form.
Now, let us shape its mind as your own.
What is its favorite food? [SWEET] [SOFT] [SOUR] [SALTY] [PAIN] [COLD]
Your favorite blood type? [A] [AB] [B] [C] [D]
What color does it like most? [RED] [BLUE] [GREEN] [CYAN]
Please give it a gift. [KINDNESS] [MIND] [AMBITION] [BRAVERY] [VOICE]
How do you feel about your creation? (It will not hear.) [LOVE] [HOPE] [DISGUST] [FEAR]
Have you answered honestly? [YES] [NO]
You acknowledge the possibility of pain and seizure. [YES] [NO]
[YES] Understood.
Name your vessel. [select a name]
[ENTER] We named it "[player-selected name]."
And what about the creator? [select your name]
Thank you for your time.
Your answers, your wonderful creation...
Will now be discarded.
No one can choose who they are in this world.
Your name is—
* KRIS!- By the way, all the leg choices look the same, further developing the illusion that you have a choice.
- Select the same name for both your vessel and your own name?
"[name]." Of course. Of course. Of course they are the same. “[name]."
This is maybe a bit unnerving at most. I don't know whether having the whole dialogue for the character creation sequence on the page is needed. I doubt that anyone is actually going to lose sleep tonight over the lack of choices for your character's pants. The response for choosing the same name for yourself and the vessel doesn't sound that scary either. - Susie threatening to eat your face off. That's the very first true scare in the game... but far from the last.
The scene starts off serious, but becomes Played for Laughs very soon after when she stops herself, making it clear that she doesn't have it in her to actually kill anyone.
- After returning from the Dark World, the player's dispensed into the unnamed town from the intro, filled with familiar faces from Undertale all around. Except Not as You Know Them. Alphys and Undyne have never met before, the Amalgamites are deceased (as is Gerson, one of the only people in the kingdom that had known about what the Deltarune was and Asgore and Toriel being Boss Monsters), there's a mysterious bunker south of town playing low sounds that one may not even realize are there, and even the people that know Kris outright call them a Creepy Child to their face with the implication that they're acting out-of-character currently. There's a sense of dread and immense Paranoia Fuel for those who played the original, as if an itch in the back of your brain is telling you that something has gone horribly wrong, but don't know what.
This sounds kinda like speculation.
- Most returning players would probably either play neutral or Pacifist, out of habit, and nothing seems wrong with this approach. Then you try for No Mercy - and Susie refuses to actually kill anyone, and any defeated opponents merely run off with no EXP gained. It doesn't change the story at all, and everyone in the Dark World still treats you like a hero. It seems a lot like railroading compared to the previous game. Then you might remember the game outright declaring your choices don't matter before you even really get into it (back at the installer even). Whatever greater forces are at work refuse to let you waylay whatever story they're trying to tell, which only raises further questions if it's Chara deciding this.
Also not sure about this one. The last sentence definitely sounds like speculation, though.
Edited by Zuxtron on Oct 31st 2018 at 9:01:47 AM
It's definitely darker than earlier AA games, and a lot of the final case is incredibly unsettling due to the villain and Athena trying to 'fix' her mother.
Also, NightmareFuel.Pokemon Lets Go Pikachu And Lets Go Eevee has a page. Most of it is about Lavender Town and the expressions characters make.
NightmareFuel.Super Smash Bros Ultimate got a lot of new entries too.
Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 1st 2018 at 3:08:10 PM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Well, a new series of RWBY has started and that means the page is immediately back here for clean-up, with episode 1:
- This episode marks the first time we've seen the Grimm operate in a clearly-established pack, with a Sphinx Grimm that only gets defeated with the combined attention of Qrow and Team RWBY... and at least fifteen Manticore Grimm under its command. The implications of this are one thing, but special points for creepiness goes to the shot of the Sphinx rising off the train as it approaches a tunnel.
- The Traintop Battle also serves as a powerful reminder of the dangers of transportation within Remnant, and how neither aerial nor terrestrial travel is safe from monsters.
- Adam sitting on the throne of the White Fang with the bodies and blood of those who refused to follow him littering the throne room, in what is undoubtedly the bloodiest scene in the whole show. Repeating Blake's name to himself, Adam then cuts the throne in half and lets out a blood-curdling scream of rage. Adam is furious and it's very obvious Blake now has his undivided attention.
- The opening sequence features a glimpse of what is potentially a new Grimm. But instead of seeing its full form, all we see is many blood-red Grimm eyes and a horde of black, clawed tendrils grabbing at Qrow and Ruby. Given the only Grimm to have similar features was the Nuckelavee, we can expect this Grimm to ramp up the creepiness factor.
- Speaking of Grimm, we also get a shot of an absolutely furious Salem during the villains' scene. While she has gotten angry before, her stoic demeanor still remained. Here however, as a result of the finale of Volume 5, she's done with playing The Chessmaster and could possibly try to take things into her own hands.
- This is potholing Fridge Horror, and the trope description warns against conflation with creepiness. On top of that, it's gushing about Grimm tactics and animation. Remove.
- Illegal example indentation, and this looks like more Fridge. Remove.
- This is just a scene summary, which has nothing to do with the trope. Remove.
- Anticipation of future events and reveals. Not the trope. Remove.
- Illegal example indenation, and anticipation of future events and reveals. Not the trope. Remove.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 4th 2018 at 2:18:01 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
From Chilling Adventures of Sabrina
- Nightmare Fuel: You know, it's just easier to list the things that aren't scary in this series than the ones that do.
Would you call it a Zero Context Example?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I think that the one about Adam could be kept (although I didn't really find the scene scary). The first one is just about a standard action sequence for an action show, and the third one is nothing but speculation based on a few out-of-context clips from the opening song (in fact, I went ahead and got rid of it for being so blatantly speculative).
Yup, that's a total ZCE. Plus, there's already a subpage where actual examples can go.
Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:49:36 PM
I've removed everything except for the Adam example.
This was also added to Argus Limited:
- The Relic attracts Grimm, but that's not the scary part. The scary part is that Ozpin knew this and still got on a train full of people without telling anyone. What the hell, Ozpin!
I've removed it for being just a What the Hell, Hero? example.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Any comments on the NightmareFuel.Deltarune examples?
There's also this one that was added afterwards:
- Finding Jevil. Not only does one of the shopkeeps, Seam, freak out at the mere possibility of him escaping or anyone wanting to encounter him, but when you do finally meet the fellow, he's bat-shit insane and a bit of a Reality Warper. Even worse, he's one of the only cases in the entire series so far with mid-battle voice clips, almost as if he's "breaking the rules" thanks to his insanity and powers - not unlike Flowey.
Jevil: Chaos, chaos!Jevil: I can do anything!
- Just to add onto the Paranoia Fuel that the rest of the game's got going, Seam confesses that Jevil wasn't always like this. But after meeting a mysterious individual, Jevil came to see the world as nothing but a game and his mental state went off the deep end. During this exposition, Seam pointedly uses the phrase, "Darker, yet darker," a specific line attributed to Gaster through his Twitter account and previous hidden data.
- Not to mention that Jevil carries a Leitmotif from a certain song in his battle theme. What song, you ask? It's Don't Forget, a song named after a phrase commonly associated with the above-mentioned hand man, Gaster. And to make things worse, the exact verse it quotes goes like this...
- In addition if you go back to Seam after defeating Jevil, after his initial surprise and respect, he will mention ominously that Jevil is only "a taste of things to come".
I don't think that the mere fact that he's voiced counts as Nightmare Fuel, but I could accept keeping the rest. Ignoring the illegal indentation, the second bullet point might be OK too. The third point looks like misuse, here's his theme, it's not scary at all unless you make quite a big stretch which might make it Fridge Horror. The last point sounds like anticipation and speculation.
I'd say the last point is definitely weak. While I get that it can be ominous, I wouldn't call it Nightmare Fuel.
Chronic lore addict
In the Super Star/Ultra folder, I found this line in the nightmare fuel page for Kirby:
- Heavy Lobster wouldn't be scary at all, if only his theme wasn't essentially despair in musical form.
There are a lot of complaints that can be traced back to this wiki stating that this is a massive stretch, and listening to it myself, I can agree. While the song does imply a sense of urgency, I wouldn't really call it despair by any means.
Cut?
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Whoever wrote that is either the biggest coward ever, or desperately trying to make Kirby sound Darker and Edgier than it is. I removed it, and also cleaned up various things about the page such as removing spoiler tags and Fridge Horror, but there's probably a lot more that could be fixed.
I'm noticing a trend that people are treating Nightmare Fuel as if it's some kind of badge of honor for a work. A lot of bad entries seem to me like people are trying to make a work seem more mature or intense.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Yep, they think that it makes their show look cooler, but all it does is make them (and by extension, the rest of the site's user base) look like wimps. If only more people realized that by misusing Nightmare Fuel, they can really hurt our reputation.
Should we add some kind of warning against that then?
Well, I'm not sure we need to. What we need is for people to actually read the trope description.
The are main sources of misuse in my experience are, all of which are covered by the trope description:
- People use the trope for scenes that could be interpreted by someone, somewhere as 'scary' or 'creepy' or 'horror', but they don't realise the Nightmare Fuel trope is supposed to be for a very specific kind of 'scary' that stays with a person long after they've stopped following the work. That when they remember back to the work, what they remember is that one scene that continues to stand out because of how it scared the living daylights out of them at the time.
- People inferring horrific consequences from the scene. In other words, they're writing a Fridge Horror entry (which has its own separate page).
- People write a scene summary, but nothing else — so there's no idea how it was scary for the audience (the person writing the entry).
- People add entries that are about characters being scared, with no reference of what impact the scene does or doesn't have on the audience (the person writing the entry).
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 10th 2018 at 3:41:30 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Another episode of RWBY means more bad examples:
Uncovered
- Cinder survives Raven's battle, punches her way out of the cavern at the bottom of the Haven Vault, and kills a woman who found her collapsed in the forest outside and pinches her clothes.
This is just a scene summary. If someone actually found this scary, maybe they could explain why in more detail, but as written this is a very barebones example that doesn't convey much fear.
- When Cinder meets with the crime boss, after the line about making the spiders work for her, Cinder takes a closer look around and realizes that the bar patrons all seem to have spider tattoos...
...so what? It's just tattoos. Malachite's men aren't actually doing anything in that scene, which makes this nothing but speculation.
- It's brief, but Ozpin losing it after Ruby asks the Knowledge Relic about what he's hiding from his allies counts as a serious O.O.C. Is Serious Business moment. He runs towards Ruby with the intent of stopping the Relic revealing his biggest regret ... and fails. The episode ends as we learn that Salem was a human being.
- Before that, Qrow tries to take over from Ruby with asking the Relic. Weiss, Blake and Yang instantly bare their teeth and aim their weapons at his face. Whilst brief as well, Yang holding her uncle up at gunpoint is unnerving.
- Related to the above, Qrow has the sense to back down when the girls turn their weapons on him. Ozpin however manages to move so fast and with such desperation that he slips past everyone. Weiss and Blake can only react with shock and a bit of fear as Ozpin nearly gets his hands on Ruby while they barely have time to pull up their weapons. Likewise, Ruby becomes afraid as Ozpin nearly makes contact with her before Jinn saves her, but it’s obvious to say that Ruby’s trust in Ozpin will take a hit on the following episodes.
First bullet point MIGHT be OK. Second one is "unnerving" (i.e. only slightly scary), and at that point we're supposed to be agreeing with the heroes for being angry towards them. Last one focuses mostly on in-universe fear with a bit of speculation about future episodes.
I put NightmareFuel.ZOOM on the cutlist.
Since Kitchen Nightmares is a show about real restaurants, isn't that awfully close to violating No Real Life Examples, Please!? I also see two entries that seem to be accusing people of being mobsters.