Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
How about this?
The Hound attacking and abducting Oscar on Salem's behalf. After following Yang's group throughout the chapter, it startles the heroes and the audience by pouncing on Oscar seemingly from out of nowhere, with its presence only indicated by the retreat of nearby Grimm advancing on the four of them. What follows is uncomfortably reminiscent of a wild animal attack as the audience is forced to watch the helpless Oscar kick feebly at the Hound - which bites, stomps, and throws him around repeatedly until his Aura breaks and he's knocked unconscious - all while Jaune, Ren, and Yang are powerless to help him.
Inheritor of the Wing
This is more of a courtesy check than anything, want to get the go ahead on purging these examples from YMMV.Rain Man because...
- Nightmare Fuel: Any time Raymond has a meltdown.
- Charlie tries to force Raymond to go on a plane, even after he insists that there's a real risk that it'll crash. But just before they board it, Ray screams bloody murder and hits himself on the head repeatedly, and it's absolutely terrifying, which forces Charlie not to take the plane. There is some Truth in Television to this; compulsive, stereotyped motions known as "stimming" are common among autistic individuals as a means of venting stress, and while most cases of it are fairly benign (if odd-looking to a neurotypical person), in some rarer and more extreme cases it can indeed include self-harming behaviors such as striking oneself on the head.
- Raymond's meltdowns with the hot bathtub and the smoke detector.
And more importantly, the second bullet is a ZCE.
🏳️⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Angry babby
As an autistic person, I find meltdown scenes really uncomfortable, but that's more Realism-Induced Horror in my case. I haven't seen this movie, so I can see the scene being distressing and even nightmarish depending on how it's played, but it shouldn't just be "meltdowns are terrifying" because hoo boy there's some Unfortunate Implications there.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, I agree, especially if the movie intends it to be horrifying. However, the entry could explain more what makes it truly horrifying besides the fact harmful stimming exists.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 13th 2020 at 11:09:54 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Fellow Autism person here.
If people genuinely find that scene scary, then it would count as Nightmare Fuel. We can't inject our own feelings into this. Unfortunate Implications aside. This is just a list of scenes people find scary, and that sort of thing could honestly scare people if it's Played for Horror.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Very Spooky
Thing is, are Raymond' s meltdowns really nightmare-inducing to people, or do they come off as a case of Realism-Induced Horror?
Edited by jandn2014 on Dec 13th 2020 at 11:04:55 AM
back lol
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't think Realism-Induced Horror is mutually exclusive with Nightmare Fuel. If anything, it can be a VERY good source of it.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, Realism-Induced Horror is a cause of Nightmare Fuel (or Fridge), not a separate concept.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The description sounds alright to me, if a little clunky with the ZCE and the Bold Inflation (well, italics). A little cleaning up and expanding on why exactly the scene is so scary would serve it well.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
~TrocyteV cutlisted NightmareFuel.Geometry Dash per this Ask the Tropers query with the reason "All of the examples on this page do not correspond to official in-game content, which is outside the scope of a works page." But as I stated here, if the developers are encouraging players to make and share their own levels (like LittleBigPlanet, Super Mario Maker, Knytt Stories, etc.), user levels are in-game content.
Inheritor of the Wing
All fair points, you guys are right. Good thing I came to the thread then.
So- for now course of action is probably to just comment out or cut the ZCE and reword the rest of the entry to be in one line, then?
🏳️⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
There are some Sephiroth-related entries in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate that I find a tad suspect.
- Sephiroth's trailer begins with a revision/continuation of the initial World of Light opening. The heroes getting beaten back by Galeem and his faux Master Hands. Galeem's about to re-enact its beam spam attack and then is just suddenly cut in half. Keep in mind, in the original, the heroes could do nothing against Galeem and yet someone just one-shots it with ease. They start to wonder who... and then "One-Winged Angel" starts up and there he is in all his menacing glory. Cloud gives an instant Oh, Crap! and likely the viewers who know Final Fantasy VII are feeling the same way, this is definitely a bigger fish than Galeem. This line from Seph himself pretty much confirms that This Is Gonna Suck for the Smashers.
Sepheroith (sic): (Summoning dark clouds) I have been waiting for this moment. Now, I shall give Smash despair.
- After his gameplay is shown off, the cinematic continues with him pretty much taking out everyone. Every member of the roster attempts to take potshots at him, and they can't seem to land one; even a few stray strikes that do land are dismissed as "pathetic" as Sephiroth decides to sprout his wing and continue his ensuing Curb-Stomp Battle. Greninja and Bayonetta try to jump him and are swatted aside like flies. Then Sephiroth makes an instant beeline to Mario, the screen cuts to black, and when it comes back he seemingly impaled Mario on his sword. Thankfully it's shown that he just caught him by his suspenders and lifted him up, but considering the previous trailers of a Mario Bros meeting a new opponent, it wasn't unlikely they would continue that Running Gag. Long story short: if Ridley's trailer made him feel like a Xenomorph or a Predator, Sephiroth's made him look like a truly unstoppable force of nature akin to Thanos; a Physical God who cannot and will not be stopped until the universe is his and his foes are naught but ashes.
I'm not really getting "nightmare" vibes from this so much as I'm getting "gushing about Sephiroth" vibes.
There's also this entry in the "In-game" folder:
- Sephiroth's victory animation doesn't take place in a regular stage, like the other fighters'. It takes place against the backdrop of a Nibelheim-esque inferno, which Sephiroth slowly walks into after giving the camera one last triumphant smirk. The usual victory music is also replaced with a quiet, somber piece. It's The Bad Guy Wins incarnate - especially if you're not the one playing as him.
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to find scary about Sephiroth walking into flames.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Dec 17th 2020 at 5:14:46 AM
Someone added that back after it was cut three times?
kiby :]
...Yeah, really starting to think a page lock will be the best option we have.
(Don't) take me home.
Yeah, I'm definitely thinking that locking the page is needed, especially if the Sephiroth example has been re-added multiple times despite this thread saying that the example doesn't count.
Any other people want to weigh in on this?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, this is edit war territory, even if it's different editors.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Otaku
Tell the mods to lock the page immediately.
What do you all think about the second entry I mentioned in my post? Think that should go as well?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I agree with locking the Smash Ultimate page.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I'm not sure about the The Berenstain Bears page, but there's a huge possibility some examples might not belong (keep in mind that the work's target audience is children, so you might have to take that into account as well).
I've pulled the Sephiroth example to the discussion page.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Dec 18th 2020 at 9:27:02 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I heard children were scared of Green-Eyed Monster, so that one can probably be kept
Anything questionable on the Robot Chicken page?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
What I wrote on the discussion page:
While Sephiroth "impaling" Mario was genuinely shocking the first time I watched the trailer, it's ultimately Played for Laughs, since it's immediately shown that he's completely unharmed, which instantly nullifies the fear factor.
kiby :]
While this was posted on 2018, I also found this in the discussion page that might be relevant even for its age. (Unless this has already been addressed here.)
- I think the topic of how evil Ridley is as a character is getting far too long and far to exaggerated... What's the point of listing every single villainous character Nintendo has in order to show just how evil Ridley is?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
The way that begins feels like one of those "scene summary" entries
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