All-Purpose Policy and Meta discussion: Administrivia.Trope Repair Shop

Here.

Edited by ElRise on Feb 7th 2023 at 2:15:09 AM

Graffiti Wall

you're going to have to prove that whatever the issues are, they still exist, i.e. you're going to need a wick check.

Look, if I wanted to read through the old TRS I wouldn't have asked for clarification. The reason I asked is that you're confidently asserting the trope as problems, so it's sort of your job to clarify what issues we're talking about (with proof that they exist).

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Question. If a trope is listed on the "Administrivia.Tropes Needing TRS" page and someone has a proposed solution to its main problem, but the page doesn't have a TRS thread yet and probably won't for some time due to backlog... should that solution be brought up on the aforementioned Administrivia page's Discussion page, or can they add their thought as a note under the trope's entry, to be discussed in more detail when it gets a TRS page (in either case, so they won't forget their solution in the meantime)?

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

If you want to discuss a trope before bringing it to TRS, Trope Talk would be a better fit than the discussion page, not just because it's more active than discussion pages and easier to use for separate discussions for separate pages, but also because it's built for that purpose. Also, you generally need a Wick Check to back up the argument given; the main exception is for threads that are considered wick-starved per the criteria on Administrivia.Wick.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 7th 2023 at 3:49:41 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

The thing is, I pretty much have everything needed for a formal TRS thread on the trope in question; should I start a "Trope Talk" thread on it now, or wait to present my solution until an official TRS thread for it is made (however long that takes)?

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

If you have everything needed (wick check and all), just add yourself to the TRS Queue with the trope you plan to bring in.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Yeah, if the only thing left to do is make the thread, then further discussion regarding the trope isn't needed, and adding your planned thread to the TRS Queue is the best way to make sure you get to make it when a slot opens.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

All right. Duly added to Sandbox.TRS Queue.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

~Anon e Mouse Jr. I see you did an on-page example check. I believe wick checks require an off-page examples check specifically—for Megalodon you'd need 50 wicks. Shouldn't be too hard though as there aren't many wicks to begin with.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 7th 2023 at 6:28:11 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

(nods) Duly noted; I'll try to take care of it within the next 24 hours, but after I get some sleep - I've been up for over 20 hours at this point and am currently barely awake enough to type this message.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

That's fine. Take as much time as you need—the queue is very long anyway so you have ample time.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Wick check completed and folder on "TRS Queue" updated. And I have notes on every main-page entry and non-potholed wick (not counting duplicate entries) saved off if they're needed.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

~Anon e Mouse Jr. I don't think I was very clear, so I apologize.

You need to do a random check of (in this case) 50 off-page wicks, along with a link to the examples checked (with comments as needed) in a Sandbox (or in your OP). See How to Do a Wick Check.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

I'm not very good at random, except when it comes to spur-of-the-moment story ideas. I checked every wick on a work page for the trope, and ended up with the numbers I did.

Wick check can now be found on the following sandbox page (which will also be linked to TRS Sandbox Queue page): Sandbox.Menacing Megalodon

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

The two most common ways for randomization are either going to a random list generator website and copy/pasting all the wicks in (the fast route) or dragging the scroll bar up and down and choosing whichever wick your eyes land on (the straightforward route).

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail

If you can't handle random, you can't make a thread because random samples are required. Since your "wick check" isn't actually a Wick Check, you need to start from scratch if you want to make a thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 8th 2023 at 6:55:15 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Junior High has no on-page examples (despite not being on No On-Page Examples) while High School has/allows on-page examples in which they're just "X is set in/has a High School (setting)" only. Should they be taken to TRS with the argument that the first should be a Useful Notes only page and the latter should be retooled into a High School Series/High School Setting trope and cull any ZCE examples? Would Junior High need a wick check?

Also, the same goes for One-Gender School which is not tropeworthy with lots of examples being "X is a [insert gender] school only" and that's it.

Unless the trope has a very low wick count, I believe that a proposal to move to UN requires a wick check. The wicks should show that the trope is primarily being used in an informational and not narrative way. In this case, one outcome that could happen is "the wicks actually use it as a setting, so we can just resolve the on-page examples issue by crosswicking".

Not seeing a huge need to rename High School off the bat. ZCE cleanup can be done elsewhere.

Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 8th 2023 at 11:18:00 AM

i think both can be TRS'd under Not a Trope / Really a Useful Note, but I would recommend doing a wick check just to see if there are any tropeworthy patterns in the usage that can be spun out into their own tropes. If no, no harm no foul. If yes, then make lemonade out of lemons.

For One-Gender School, I can see what the page is going for as it relates to Yuri Genre and Boys' Love Genre, but I feel like it's tropeworthy only when a story is set in a world that should feature people of different genders but only one ever really shows up.

Edited by amathieu13 on Feb 8th 2023 at 12:25:50 PM

I've also seen it as "awkwardness surrounding people who didn't grow up in co-ed environments".

Sorry, I meant retooling High School into a genre trope, not necessarily renaming it for the sole sake of renaming.

Yeah, One-Gender School is usually for limiting romance between opposite genders students so they'd focus more on their studies but ironically becomes a ground for same-sex relationships instead / neglects same-sex romance, which is tropeworthy if only the examples were about that.

It's only defined as "A school that enrolls only male or female students and a trope that which, even today, has Truth in Television—although it's mostly just a thing at private schools [...]" so far and the majority of the examples went by this.

~GastonRabbit:

...With all due respect, I don't think you quite understand.

As of this post, there are 149 wicks across 47 namespaces:

• 17 work namespaces with 71 wicks (1 each of Anime, Audio Play, Creator, Pinball, Recap, Web Original and Website; 2 each of Manga and Webcomic; 3 each of Literature and Western Animation; 4 Fanfic; 5 each of Series and Tabletop Game; 6 Film; 16 Video Game and 18 Characters). If I'm reading things right, a Wick Check should be derived from these.

• 9 non-work namespaces (with 22 wicks) that really don't count for the purpose of "checking for proper use":
  • 2 "Administrivia, 3 "Analysis", 1 "Darth Wiki", 3 "Pantheon", 1 "I Read That As" (which is a "Just For Fun" subpage); 1 "Playing With", 6 "Sandbox", 4 "Useful Notes", 1 "WMG" and 1 "YMMV".

• 4 "Moments" namespaces with 8 wicks, which are effectively all potholes and again really don't count for the purpose of "checking for proper use":
  • 2 "Awesome", 4 "Funny", 1 "Headscratchers" and 1 "Nightmare Fuel".

• 29 "Main" namespace wicks, plus 17 others scattered across various indexes and Trope page-splits:
  • Main (including indexes) - 29; Artistic License – Paleontology - 3, Creator Backlash - 1, Fatal Family Photo - 1, Kaiju - 1, (Complete)Monster - 1, Newer Than They Think - 1, Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot - 1, Real Life (Index) - 2, The Worf Effect - 1, Threatening Shark - 1, Trope Namers - 1, Tropes That Will Never Happen - 1, Ugly Cute - 1, We Are Not Alone - 1.

• 2 other namespaces (1 "Playing With", 1 "Quotes") that again... don't really qualify for seeing if the trope is used properly.

---

Now, an analysis of the 71 workspace wicks:

• Across 15 of the namespaces (excluding Video Games and Characters) and 37 pages, 24 of them have regular wicks. The other 13 are potholes.
• In the 16 Video Game pages, 8 are regular wicks and 8 just have potholes.
• In the 18 Characters pages, 13 are regular wicks and 5 just have potholes.

That breaks down to 45 regular wicks (pretty much all of which are archived on the sandbox I created, and very few of which qualify for the scope of the new trope definition) and 26 potholes.

From what I'm reading, Wick Checks require random samples of 50 in-line wicks. But that literally can't be done in this case, since there aren't enough that qualify from the workspace wicks that could be sampled.

Or am I getting this wrong?

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.

Yes, you are getting this wrong, especially because it's never impossible to get a random sample despite what you claim (unless a page has less than 50 wicks, in which case every wick has to be checked, but that's not the case here), since the amount of wicks to check for pages is either the square root of the total amount of wicks or 50 (whichever is higher), and we've been trying to tell you that this whole time. Please read How to Do a Wick Check, and take the rest of this conversation to the Wick Check Project thread if you need more help, because this conversation is getting too long.

Edit: As I said in the Wick Check Project thread, checking every single wick isn't wrong, it's just not necessary, and even if that's done, every other rule still has to be followed. (I might have misunderstood at some point; I've been sick all week and have been less active with TRS work as a result.)

Another edit: I'm turning off the mod mode for this post per what I said about dialing down TRS work this week.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 8th 2023 at 3:33:48 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

The issue with Wannabe Line is resolved, so you're up next ~Smashman 2893

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