"The Juice is Loose."
So any more opinions on Mary Jane. I am fine with leaving her. Just want to make sure.
Edited by Bullman on Apr 26th 2022 at 3:06:24 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
I mean I didn't hate her. At most I kind of disliked her role in the series but, even then it wasn't as bad as it could be. (*Ahem* Amazing Spider-Man 2)
"The Juice is Loose."
I found this YMMV.Last Night In Soho:
- The Scrappy: Jocasta is widely disliked due to being a constant Jerkass to Eloise, and for doing little as a character to advance the plot. She could easily have been cut from the movie without it impacting the main story.
Wasn't this character written to be hated? Is that allowed? Because she seems more like a hate stink to me,
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sounds like it. Cut.
Kinda question these entries on the Judgment page.
- The Scrappy:
- Shintani, due to being an Amoral Attorney who acts more like a yakuza grunt than an actual lawyer. His Establishing Character Moment in the beginning on top of his interactions with Yagami really don't do him any favors, either. Ah, yes, and then there's the boneheaded decision of him calling the ADDC which got him killed for his troubles by The Conspiracy. Nice going, Shintani.
- If you're not a fan of the Keihin Gang system, you will despise Kim Won-soon for constantly messaging Yagami to notify him about the Keihin Gang.
For Shintani, being honest, I have scarcely seen any hate towards the character. Let alone enough hate to justify being placed as a Scrappy. Even then, the entry just talks about the deliberate negative traits of his character, and him doing something stupid. Nothing about why he's poorly written or detracts from the narrative.
The Kim Won-soon entry should definitely go. It's just complaining about a gameplay mechanic, and the entry even says it's for a specific group of people who dislike a certain system. Not a character being hated by the majority of the fanbase. By that logic, Majima would be a Scrappy due to the Majima Everywhere system in Kiwami also constantly interrupting you.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on May 5th 2022 at 4:05:34 AM
"The Juice is Loose."
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Is it possible for a character to be Rescued from the Scrappy Heap within the span of a single stand-alone work? This example from YMMV.AI The Somnium Files might need looking at.
- The Scrappy: Ota Matsushita has earned himself very few fans for his creepy obsession with Iris and his general treatment of his mother whom is suffering from dementia, rendering him Unintentionally Unsympathetic for many fans. Although the ending of his route where he comes to terms with his faults as a person and decides to get a job to support Mayumi redeemed him in the eyes of many fans.
The Unknown
Jar Jar's entry on YMMV.The Phantom Menace does little, if anything, to actually explain how he qualifies as The Scrappy.
Edited by Karxrida on May 5th 2022 at 2:23:17 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
I mostly trope video games.
Do any of the examples in TheScrappy.Epic Rap Battles Of History qualify? The series is almost entirely one-offs, so I'm not sure if that fulfills "consistently hated" since there isn't really that much to be "consistent" in the first place. The page looks like it's complainy about the rap battles for some of them and I'm pretty sure at least their portrayal of Justin Beiber was meant to be hated, so he's an intentional example. A lot of the entries have this complain-y tone to them too.
I think maybe Thing One and Thing Two could be moved to the YMMV page for the series if being a one-off doesn't disqualify someone from Scrappydom? The rest I'm leaning more to cuts but I'm, again, not sure about.
Edited by greatpikminfan on May 9th 2022 at 10:17:39 AM
I write stories about naked people beating demons, gods, and eldritch horrors.
Lots of coffee
I think one-offs can still be Scrappies. I think the issue is more that several of these are Hate Sinks or just complaints about delivery, not the characters themselves. A lot of the entries seem to conflate "lost the battle" with being a Scrappy.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I mostly trope video games.
Okay then, if one-offs are fine these are my thoughts, but a lot of them are unsure:
- Sarah Palin, due to her ear-splitting voice and her poor to the point of bizarre bad lines. If she counts, this should at least be rewritten because it just sounds like complaining.
- Lady Gaga, due to her entire portrayal being based on the now-dated joke that she was a man in disguise (to the point of being literally portrayed by a man) and having next to no good lines outside of “Governor of Alaska? That’s like the principal of a home school”. I mean maybe?
- Justin Bieber, while no one was going into the battle expecting him to win, is still hated due to being portrayed as a Bratty Half-Pint and having annoying raps. I'm almost certain he was written to intentionally be annoying. This battle came out when Bieber was pretty much one of the Internet's punching bags in certain circles.
- Thing One and Thing Two aren't popular with the general public due to their annoying high-pitched voices, their garish make-up, how Ax-Crazy they act toward Shakespeare as well, and their bad lines that only consist of violent threats with no variety. This is especially considering the fact said lines came after Shakespeare's second verse, considered to be one of the most impressive in the series history. Seems valid to me? Honestly though this is mostly because they're not "main" rappers in their battle, from what I see it's more common for hate to be directed at side characters fans find annoying.
- Captain Kirk wasn't well recieved at all due to his extremely grating rapping style against his opponent. I mean, that was the point, but if people hated it that much he could still qualify.
- Batman's portrayal is one of the most criticized in the series, as he is portrayed as a dumb jock with weak lines, sharing few of the traits of his actual character. The show itself acknowledged this ("Dude that is not a cool way to play Batman!") so I think it's safe to say it's the common opinion if it managed to catch the attention of the writers and they poked fun at it/apologized for it.
- Adam and Eve star in one of the least liked battles in the series due to almost all their lines being hackneyed jokes about gender stereotypes. Eve is usually seen as the better as the two due to the actress portraying her, while Adam is usually looked further down on due to having way lamer lines and poor delivery. From what I saw, this was one of the least-liked battles, for the reason of it being almost completely gender stereotype jokes, but I don't know how much of that could be placed on calling both of them Scrappies. This comes off as falling in the problem of judging a "group" as a Scrappy, even if it's only two characters. Maybe Adam himself just counts? If Eve is considered better enough than him for that to be noted?
- Miley Cyrus, while no one was going into the battle expecting her to win, is still hated due to her annoying now-dated portrayal based mostly on her 2013 AMV performance, and a lot of her lines just repeating the same joke of Joan being burned at the stake. I think this one is another intentional example. Like Bieber it begins by saying nobody expected her to win, that points to her portrayal being that way on purpose.
- Caitlyn Jenner. Her final verse was much longer than the Hulk's, making it very one-sided. However, a majority of viewers either didn’t like Jenner's lines or that the battle was written with an on-the-nose bias in her favor rather than giving the two characters a real rap-battle-style balanced irreverent back-and-forth, and gave the win to the Hulk. It is also worth noting that this trope does not apply to her pre-transition form, as the first exchange of the battle between her and Bruce Banner is almost unanimously considered to be better than what follows after they transform. Okay this episode is controversial so it's going to take a bit of explaining. Some other battles clearly lean towards having one of the rappers being portrayed as better than their opponent and/or they're given more lines to crush them (Freddie Mercury, Nikola Tesla, Joan of Arc, Ludwig Von Beethoven) and they're usually pretty well-liked, so "getting more focus" isn't by itself something that condemns someone to Scrappydom. I guess you could make the case that in this case, Caitlyn Jenner's extra lines come at the expense of a beloved and popular comic book character getting screentime, while the other examples I mentioned are people less popular among ERB's general audience. On the other hand this was one of the least-popular or at least most-disliked episodes around the time it came out, but I don't know if there's any way of telling how much of that was genuinely disliking that for the faults of the episode, having Caitlyn Jenner in general (I don't know anything about her but the Broken Base page for ERB says she's controversial even in the trans community), Hulk being underused, bad implications with Jenner's portrayal (implicitely comparing transitioning to turning to the Hulk), or how much is just transphobes jumping on it for no other reason than having a trans character. Yeah I have no idea what to do with this one.
- Count Dracula, for his poor-looking costume, his slow-paced, unenergetic, underwhelming flow, and a lack of hard-hitting disses (if not a lack of disses at all) towards his opponent. One of the "Lost the battle = Scrappy" entres.
- Thanos, for his odd RoboCop sounding voice, his abominable looking costume, and a lack of good disses in comparison to his opponent, most notably his Fortnite reference, which made him lose the battle the moment he said it according to many YouTube comments. Another "Lost the battle = Scrappy" entry. As an aside I'm pretty sure "They referenced Fortnite" isn't enough to automatically have a character hated to Scrappy-levels, so that shouldn't make up half of the entry.
So, I think cut Bieber, Cyrus, Dracula, and Thanos; keep Thing One and Thing Two and Batman; the rest I'm unsure about/could use rewrites. Anybody else who agrees or disagrees?
I write stories about naked people beating demons, gods, and eldritch horrors.
I found these under YMMV.Fall Of Starfleet Rebirth Of Friendship:
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Mykan's original cast was full of one-note Flat Characters. Now, they have more traits, actual development, and even moments of sympathy. Even Rhymey and Grand Ruler graduate from generic Scrappies to intentional Hate Sinks, which is still an improvement with regards to characterization.
- Take That, Scrappy!: Given how badly disliked he was in the source material, it's hard to interpret Rainbow Dash's verbal and physical smackdown of Rhymey as anything else. Getting thrown out of Fluttershy's house is probably even more cathartic. Then there's chapter 16, which could very easily be renamed "Take That, Rhymey!" He is also the only Starfleet member not to redeem himself, who joins Conquest, loses to Rainbow Dash again and gets an unhappy ending for being an abuser.
- Happens to the Grand Ruler in ‘The Fall, Part 2’. Dark Conquest effortlessly demolishes him in combat, along with giving him a "The Reason You Suck" Speech, and exposes his lies to all of United Equestria. And Conquest has such an easy time because Celestia took the source of Celesto's power away.
This would imply that Rhymey and the Grand Ruler are seen as Scrappies in this fanfic, even though they’re Love to Hate here. They also aren’t rescued unless it’s the original author doing the saving, am I right?
Edited by PlasmaPower on May 10th 2022 at 6:05:49 AM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
I mostly trope video games.
Yeah a separate fan writing the characters to remove their Scrappy traits doesn't count. If nothing else that can probably fall under being a Fix Fic?
Lots of coffee
Palin, like Bieber and Cyrus, was a Hate Sink due to being a joke at the time period the battle came out. However, the very next entry is for her opponent, so we can probably chalk that up to the episode being badly written in general, not just one annoying character.
Adam and Eve are treated as a unit in this entry so I'd say they don't count, it's just the battle that's bad.
Kirk's delivery was hated and it's a big reason people seem to dislike the battle, but I don't think his actual lines or general vibe were, so I'd say he's probably not an example.
Not sure about the rest.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
- The Scrappy:
- Michael, following the "tattoo saga", where he ended up ruining a moment between him and Angry Grandpa by pranking him while he was getting a tattoo. This resulted with Grandpa just flat out not wanting to talk to Michael, to the point where he was basically done with him.
- This became worse when Michael continued to justify his actions rather than seek reconciliation. When he and Grandpa go at it again, what does he resort to doing? PRANKING HIM.
- To some, in the "McJuggerNuggets saga", his Revenge Before Reason tenancies has irked the more saner fans. Especially if they're both fans of both McJuggerNuggets and Angry Grandpa.
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: He got a lot of fans back when he bought Grandpa a house and even got him the flag that was draped over his father's casket as a gift. Shows Michael has slowly matured as the show goes on.
- Bridgette is not safe either, she has been hated by fans due to her constant talking, and interrupting conversations and putting herself into them, making fun of Grandpa, being extremely selfish and caring only about herself, and constantly trying to talk Michael out of helping Grandpa.
- Michael, following the "tattoo saga", where he ended up ruining a moment between him and Angry Grandpa by pranking him while he was getting a tattoo. This resulted with Grandpa just flat out not wanting to talk to Michael, to the point where he was basically done with him.
McJuggerNuggets sounds like it should be cut as "To some" and not consistently hated. Michael and Bridgette I'd normally cut as not unintentional, especially Michael who gets consequences, but not sure if this is supposed to be a reality show where there is no writing/intent. Thoughts?
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: When the game was first released, Kaidan was widely written off as a Tier Induced Scrappy due to having less biotic talents than Liara and less tech talents than Tali. As the game aged, the playerbase realized that his array of support powers was more potent than it first seemed, and he is now considered a top-tier character due to the overall power of biotics.
If they get better received due to re-evaluation as opposed to in-work changes, is this a better fit for Vindicated by History?
The Unknown
From YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda Oracle Games.
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Ralph from Ages gives a bad first impression with his immature and arrogant attitude, repeatedly criticizing Link for attending to everyone's needs instead of Nayru and not being of any help on his own—a surefire way to rub pretty much every player the wrong way. After Link rescues Nayru, however, he suddenly mellows out and travels to the past to end Queen Ambi's life when she's possessed by Veran even if it means he will disappear because of the time paradox. Fortunately, Link prevents him from doing so and Ralph's newfound selflessness ended up winning over many of his detractors.
I'm pretty sure the character has to be "rescued" in another installment, otherwise it's just Character Development.
Also my Jar Jar concern from earlier was never addressed.
Edited by Karxrida on May 14th 2022 at 6:13:17 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
I replaced his entry with his one from Star Wars (which better explained his dislike). And cut Ralph as the 6-month waiting period means there was never time for him to count as the Scrappy.
Thoughts about my entries ?
From StarWars
The Sun Crusher is perhaps unique in all fiction for being a starship that qualifies as The Scrappy, garnering a hatedom by fans because of how ridiculously overpowered it is. While there are many superweapons capable of destroying entire planets, they usually have clearly defined weaknesses (sluggish mobility, slow fire rate, vulnerable to attacks by small fighters, and so forth). The Sun Crusher however lacks any real weaknesses and its offensive firepower surpasses even those of both Death Stars. This small starfighter carries torpedoes that can destroy an entire star system, as opposed to a single planet like all other superweapons. The Sun Crusher was also shown to be Nigh-Invulnerable as it could ram through a Star Destroyer without a scratch and survive a hit from a planet-shattering superlaser similar to the one used on the Death Star. For many fans, the Sun Crusher was considered an overpowered plot device whose capabilities destroyed any sense of balance while outshining the iconic Death Stars. That and it has a derpy appearance.note It proved to be so troublesome that even its creator couldn't think of a way to effectively destroy it and just had to dump it into a black hole and hope that did the trick.
I’m pretty sure a weapon can’t be a scrappy.
Edited by jogarz on May 15th 2022 at 6:44:01 AM
These examples comes from Taskmaster, a Panel Game show featuring (predominantly) comedians as themselves, which might make the examples fall under No Real Life Examples, Please!.
- Alice Levine was not hugely popular with viewers who perceived her to not be putting very much effort into the tasks (Greg often noted her prize tasks in particular as being low effort), as well as not bringing as much as other contestants comedy-wise. To be fair, she isn't a comedian, but that didn't stop much more popular contestants like Richard Osman or the New Year Treat's line-up.
- Iain Stirling wasn't well liked by fans as he was overly competitive and had a lack of sportsmanship, something which even he noticed, and very much regretted, in the studio (to the point it was a noted Running Gag by Greg). He is often given as one of the reasons for why Series 8's lineup is so poor. In the pre-recorded tasks. he took the tasks way too seriously, and came off as a Competition Freak who often let his competitiveness take over to the point that people found him annoying to watch when he was losing. An often-cited example is the ball-bouncing task in "I've Been a Bit Ill", where he gets annoyed with the scoring and doesn't clap the winner until he realises the camera is on him. As mentioned above, Iain has mentioned some retrospective regret on both the show and the Taskmaster podcast (where he revealed he was trying to play "the bad guy" in recordings, but couldn't maintain it, and regrets doing that in hindsight) and is very mortified of the more unpleasant things he's done on the show. His performance still left a rather bad taste in people's mouth.
- Lou Sanders is another Series 8 contestant who is particularly criticised by fans for contributing to the negative atmosphere of that season. Although as noted above, she does have some support for providing humour to a lacklustre series.
- Daisy May Cooper is another somewhat "marmite" contestant, with many vocal detractors viewing her similarly to Iain Stirling in that her competitiveness could tend to lead to outbursts and tantrums that could spoil the atmosphere somewhat. In particular, she tended to lash at out her team partner Richard Herring when she felt he wasn't performing to her standards; see her infamous explosion when he failed to identify the animal she was drawing in one of the live tasks (a hippo, supposedly). While she does have something of an excuse (she was heavily pregnant at time of filming, suggesting that at least some of her behaviour and temper could be attributed to hormones), this didn't necessarily make it any more pleasant to watch. Furthermore, her submissions for the prize task tend to be somewhat lacklustre and "route one", suggesting she wasn't really putting a lot of effort into the show, or at least that part of it.
- Judi Love. She acts like the stereotypical Sassy Black Woman with none of the irony. She is argumentative to a fault on almost every decision Greg makes (even positive ones has her try to argue to get more points), is unapologetically loud, and often tries to be the center of attention at every opportunity, and comes off as more of a Competition Freak than Iain was from Series 8, because at least he was self-aware and actively mortified of how he acted in his pre-recorded tasks, and regretted his actions. Whereas Judi sticks to her guns on almost every decision she makes.
It seems odd to me that under King of the Hill we have Lucky listed but not Peggy, she had far more detractors due to her flanderization. In fact, a lot of people hated her for sabotaging Lucky's GED effort, funnily enough.
The Unknown
x3 Agreed. It's not a character.
Lots of coffee
Peggy's listed as Base-Breaking Character.
Musician/Composer
This was just added to The Scrappy entry on YMMV.Bo Jack Horseman:
- Stuart doesn’t seem to have any fans either, as he’s an in-universe inferior replacement to Lora and especially Judah, being completely useless and apathetic at his job and generally snobbish and obnoxious.
- Tracy, Princess Carolyn's adoption agent and who is very heavily implied to be Stuart's long lost twin sister, is exactly the same as him, being openly rude and sarcastic to Princess Caroyln through her adoption journey, although she somewhat has a Freudian Excuse that she was lonely growing up because her mother worked all the time, advising Princess Carolyn to not adopt if she’s too busy for a baby.
Thoughts?
Edited by gjjones on May 20th 2022 at 1:25:14 PM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Coffeenix! (She/Her)
Never seen Bojack so I can't say for certain, but the first one is definitely a hate sink. The second one probably is as well.
Edited by RainbowPumpqueen on May 21st 2022 at 4:04:12 AM
Sandbox help wanted.
Yes. In my experience there has been a lot of arguments about her. But I don't know if it's to that degree.
There is also this from the same page:
Edited by Bullman on Apr 7th 2022 at 10:01:39 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread