Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

From YMMV.Kim Possible

• Narm: The "Sneak Peek" has Kim running (rather slowly at that) to get the school bus on time, but stopping when she sees a mother letting go of a baby carriage, which starts rolling down on a completely even sidewalk. Said mother also needs Kim's help to save the baby, despite that she could have simply walked the few feet and stopped the carriage herself. Also, Kim does an unnecessary roll and uses a grappling hook to stop the carriage, despite that the baby could've gotten hurt from one of the hooks. When Kim gets into the bus on time, Ron shouts "Boo-yah!". His voice sounds extremely nasally and awkward when doing that. Speaking of which, Wade is helping Kim get on the school bus, giving her a countdown to when the bus' doors close. How does Wade know when the bus door closes? What is the bus driver going to do when he sees Kim running towards the bus, is he just going to drive away? Why is he standing in the middle of the road to begin with?

This seems suspiciously nattery, especially since it was written before it the film came out. Should it be cleaned up or cut completely?

I really don't see how this is narm. Cut it.

Stitch's Great Escape! has a fair amount of complaining and focuses way too much on the ride's reputation.

Hitch seems to really hate the character of Sara... or is it just me?

Well for starters, "Hitch accidentally kicks Sara in the head" doesn't seem "amusing" enough for Amusing Injuries.

I nuked the whole Amusing Injuries example list because it was all either shoehorning or ZCEs. The trope is about when slapstick injuries have no lasting effects, and are either recovered from quickly (such as with the Accordion Man subtrope) or don't cause any actual damage (such as gunshots or explosives causing nothing more than an Ash Face). The Hitch page seemed to be interpreting the trope name literally to refer to injuries that are Played for Laughs, but as previously mentioned, some examples just described injuries without saying how they're depicted.

The short description on PlayingWith.Amusing Injuries begs to differ.

Being Played for Laughs is part of the definition. The examples on the Playing With page and Laconic.Amusing Injuries both cover the lack of realism involved.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 21st 2019 at 9:00:54 AM

Anyway, what about the other examples on Hitch? I'm noticing a lot of examples that seem like rants about the character of Sara.

*Looks through every time Sara is mentioned* Hoo boy...

Unabashed complaining:

• Disproportionate Retribution: The title character's love interest Sara has a friend who slept with a guy who dumped her the morning after. On the way out the door, he makes an offhand comment, "Date doctor my ass." Sara makes it her mission to find the date doctor and expose him, blaming him for enabling the scumbag to use her friend. When she finds out it's none other than Hitch, the guy she's been seeing and whom she likes, she trashes him and his completely innocent client in her gossip column. This effectively ruins Hitch's reputation and livelihood, utterly humiliates Albert (and is indirectly the cause of his being arrested), and destroys the relationship of at least one of his previous clients. Hitch had explicitly refused to work with the guy because he was a scumbag who only wanted to get laid, making Sara even more horrendously unlikable and making it even more enraging when Hitch takes her back..
  • And that friend of hers? A shallow moron who was repeatedly told this guy was probably a scumbag from the beginning. Why is she even concerned with this? Fortunately, Casey at least recognized how stupid she had been after Hitch's rant at the speed-dating event, realizing that if she hadn't let her desperation get in the way of common sense, then she wouldn't have gotten hurt in the first place.
• Jerk with a Heart of Jerk: Sara. Full. Stop.
• Karma Houdini: Sara commits straight-up libel to wreck Hitch's business and publicly humiliate his client. The most comeuppance she receives is Hitch yelling at her in front of a crowd at a speed-dating event, and he later takes her back. After she screws with him some more and makes him beg. In reality, a more likely outcome is Albert, Allegra, and Hitch (who, it should be reminded, was not doing anything illegal at all) suing Sara and her paper for defamation and ruining Sara's business back by exposing her for publishing a fake story that humiliated a wealthy and influential New Yorker for her own petty grudges.

Slight complaining/Can't really tell:

• My God, What Have I Done?: After the fight at the speed-dating seminar, and Hitch's EPIC "The Reason You Suck" Speech, Sara tries to hold onto her outrage but pretty quickly slides into this.
  Sara: (in a very small voice) Can you believe that guy?
  Casey: Actually, yeah.
• Poor Communication Kills: Sara destroys Hitch's career as the Date Doctor because of a scumbag who dropped his title after breaking her friend's heart. Because she refused to state why she was angry with Hitch, she never learned that Hitch refused to help the Jerkass because of his view of women.
• "The Reason You Suck" Speech: Hitch gives Sara an epic one after she destroys his reputation and career and tries to pull a You Know What You Did.
• You Know What You Did: Magnificently defied when Hitch calls Sara out on her attempt at pulling this trope on him.

There's also these from the YMMV page:

• Moral Event Horizon: Sara reaches this at the speed-dating event, where she tells Hitch that if Albert (and by extension, Allegra) have to suffer for him to go down, then so be it. It is very difficult to feel anything positive for her from this moment on.
• Why Would Anyone Take Her Back?: By the end of the film, Sara has almost ruined Hitch's career, publicly humiliated him as well as Allegra and Albert, and as Fridge Horror explains there's no telling how many couples around New York may have split up over paranoia that the man of the couple had help from Hitch, many of them being married if Hitch's memento wall of wedding invitations is any evidence. She also did all this without ever trying to get Hitch's side of things, and in the process published a story without fact-checking it, a story that humiliates a wealthy and influential New Yorker. The final scene has Hitch begging for forgiveness from Sara for some reason.

The pages in general also have a lot of zero-context problems, but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah, I was actually trying to do a page cleanup when I decided to bring the page to discussion first, to be sure that it wasn't just me that saw complaining (that, and for some help properly removing the complaining examples without removing valid information).

Remove the listed ZCE.

Kolasto deleted two tropes off of YMMV.Kingdom Hearts III for absolutely no reason, only saying that "I'm going to regret this.", given that the deleted examples seem to legitimately fit these tropes.

The deleted examples in question:

• Anti-Climax Boss: The secret boss, Dark Inferno. Previous bonus bosses in the game have demanded players be at a high level to win, and some of them are highly challenging even at Level 99. Dark Inferno, however, can be beaten in the Level 40-50 range if you know what you're doing, and can be crushed with the Ultima Weapon, which can deplete two health bars with one combo. Add to that its generic design—basically an Invisible from the first game, but taller and carrying two swords—and it's considered a huge letdown and nowhere near the challenge players have come to expect from the series' secret bosses. To put it one way, there are a number of players who beat him in their first few attempts (or even the first) without realizing it was meant to be a superboss.
• Ass Pull:
  • How exactly certain characters come back have some missing details in their returns; some of them are handwaved, and some are outright ignored. While the narrative is clear on how Roxas got a body once his heart was restored, it doesn't say how he reached the Keyblade Graveyard as quickly as he did, leaving it open to arguing and speculation. There is no explanation at all for Xion; she couldn't have traveled from the past as she remains present after the final battle, and didn't have to go back to her place in time. And yet, her heart was said to be with Sora, and he never moved her heart to a new vessel, so how she got there and remained there was never explained. The vaguest hints is that the research being performed about toys and machines in Toy Box and San Fransokyo that were used to further the completion of the Replica, but it doesn't go into how this is done.
  • Subject X, the experimental girl. Heartless Ansem just kinda casually brings up their existence in one cutscene, treating the character as an essential part of his already decade-old backstory. Then Lea and Isa suddenly start talking as if this character had always been on their minds all the time, which is simply hard to believe due to neither party ever mentioning the character in any prior game.
  • The ending attempts to justify and undo Master Xehanort's Motive Decay, by revealing he really was a Well-Intentioned Extremist obsessed with Balance all along, who just resorted to even more extreme methods. He believed that as long as humans who produced too much darkness in their hearts live, the realm of light will never be safe from darkness, and he saw using Kingdom Hearts as the only way to bring about true balance, by wiping out the universe and starting over. However, these revelations conflict with pretty much everything else Xehanort has said and done by his first appearance, because he and his incarnations have championed darkness as a source of power and used it to corrupt and control others since the first game, and he is directly responsible for countless worlds and people being consumed by darkness and the realm of light being invaded by the Heartless. Furthermore, Master Xehanort had written in his reports in Birth By Sleep that he considered too much light to be the problem offsetting the balance and had wanted to "tear down this tyranny of light and reconstruct the World around darkness", so him now claiming that he wanted to suppress darkness from damaging the worlds flies in the face of his previously stated motivations, beliefs and goals. This revelation thus comes off as a weak attempt to redeem Master Xehanort and make him sympathetic and misguided.
  • Demyx and Luxord being ancient Keyblade wielders, as implied by Xemnas. We already knew Marluxia and Larxene were going by the surprise appearances of their Somebodies in Union (although Elrena only debuted a few months before III's release) and their partnership in Chain of Memories made it believable that they were familiar with each other beforehand, but there was no reason to believe either Demyx or Luxord were involved in that as well, considering how they mostly acted independent from the other Organization members.
  • The reveal that Xehanort/Ansem's Guardian was actually Terra's Heartless doesn't fall here; it was set up fairly well in the previous games. What does fall into Ass Pull however is how Terra manages to regain his body. After over ten years In-Universe of Terra being trapped as a Heartless, he manages to rebel against Terra-Xehanort, and with Sora using his Keyblade, is able to retake his body. The game doesn't explain at all how Terra finally gained the strength to resist and break free, an odd choice when his Lingering Will makes a single appearance in an earlier scene and simply vanishes from the story when it logically could have played a role in Terra's escape. The closest explanation was that seeing Aqua and Ventus about to be killed gave him the strength to resist, but the game doesn't at all hint that was the case since he just manages to break free very quickly.

Edited by Albert3105 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 7:21:43 AM

This new entry in the description of WebVideo.Cinema Sins seems a bit complainy.

• However they also do a lot of Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking and other people have noted that they sin things that are explained just by watching the movie all the way through clichés that should be expected, and even sinning jokes. Sometimes they say in interviews that it's explained by it being a joke; this is not claimed in any of their videos, and a lot of people take it seriously. There are even comments saying that people have decided not to go and see a movie, or that they don't enjoy the movie any more now.

This entry previously had a wick to Did Not Do The Research, which is in the Permanent Red Link Club.

Edited by costanton11 on Feb 24th 2019 at 12:37:16 PM

Yes, remove it.

Done.

Should we cut What An Idiot pages for reality TV shows, like Hell's Kitchen and Survivor? Unless I'm wrong, they all reflect Real Life.

Reality shows are considered separate enough from real life to be allowed even when No Real Life Examples, Please! is in effect.

What about game shows?

I just finished cleaning Ride.Stitchs Great Escape and came across this entry in the Trivia subpage.

• Franchise Killer: The incredibly poor reception of this ride, as well as the continued grudge that American Disney Parks fans have against Stitch because of this ride and his then-overmarketing, has killed off any prospects of another Lilo & Stitch attraction or show (besides the incredibly short-lived Stitch's Supersonic Celebration) ever running in the United States, including any chances of an American port of the better-received Stitch Encounter. It also marked the beginning of the franchise's decline in popularity in the U.S. and Disney's eventual increased focus on promoting it in regions where it was much more successful (such as Japan).

I find this extremely suspect since the main page was already pretty complainy.

Edited by Karxrida on Feb 24th 2019 at 2:12:28 AM

About the Kingdom Hearts 3 examples brought up above, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Anti-Climax Boss doesn't include bonus bosses, does it? Although if it does, I think the design part of it is unnecessary.

Regarding Hitch, if the first entry was worded better, it would be a valid example of Misplaced Retribution, since Hitch is getting blamed for a guy he refused to take on as a client.

Which I guess is another example of the complaining nature of the entry.

So that same guy came back and has now pulled every negative YMMV from KHIII. His only comment was as follows: "I am in so much trouble for this, but i don't care."

Another moderator has reverted those edits. Meanwhile, the culprit is suspended.

Star Wars Legends would still be a case of Better Than Canon since the tropes is about anything non-canonical that is seen as better than something that is.