What's Happening



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07:08:42 PM Sep 30th 2014
I'm aware the loads of character will inevitably cause Base Breakers to appear, but shouldn't we limit the amount of entries and manage what's there? I feel like every once in a while the trope just starts getting overloaded to the point one could just say every character is one, considering characters fluctuate back and forth between being base breakers and well liked.
01:05:04 AM Oct 1st 2014
I can very well see a situation where a large number of characters are a Base Breaker, or even the entire cast. So I don't see a problem with it.
11:03:56 PM Sep 28th 2014
I really want to remove the Alas Poor Scrappy entry of Lucas. The entry itself makes no sense because Lucas is in the Ensemble Darkhorse category and is a fan favorite. This trope only applies if you hated the character and I have a lot of problem with almost all the characters cut because they're Base Breakers at worse or shouldn't be on there. Only Mewtwo should be there given he was hated in Melee and now all of a sudden people want him back.
04:59:17 AM Sep 29th 2014
I'd say remove Wolf and Ice Climbers as well, personally speaking and move them to the Base Breakers trope.
12:24:32 PM Sep 23rd 2014
So I pulled Brawl from Even Better Sequel.

As it was, it conflicted with the fact it's very much a Contested Sequel, and an attempt to make it clear that it's not unanimously considered an improvement was deleted.

Note that I love Brawl, it's my favorite of the Smashes, but it's got way too many people who like it less than Melee to qualify as an Even Better Sequel.
12:53:05 AM Sep 24th 2014
"got way too many people who like it less than Melee"

Huh. On which evidence?
06:03:47 AM Sep 24th 2014
Well for one, the aforementioned Contested Sequel entry.

For another, just google "Brawl vs. Melee." The very first result is "Why is Melee better than Brawl."
06:42:03 AM Sep 24th 2014
Well, I could raise the same issue about Contested Sequel. And Even Better Sequel is a quality judgment, not a popularity one.

Mind you, I don't really care one way or another. I am raising this issue because 50% of all arguments and problems on YMMV articles come from people removing entries for insufficient reasons.
07:05:12 PM Sep 30th 2014
Brawl can stay under that, but with mention going to its Contested Sequel status as there already is, considering there are other pages that discuss varying sequel quality reactions like The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Besides, the actual trope page goes into detail about why it could arguably qualify (Namely the better critical reaction and the great sales) and Project M getting better remake remarks under that category is already there and worth mentioning.
07:38:19 PM Sep 11th 2014
This is why I don't want to have Dark Pit in any category yet.

1. Duck Hunt Dog and Bowser Jr. has a confirmed moveset and videos are on Youtube specially Duck Hunt Dog. We see what they're capable of from there. Dr. Mario and Dark Pit lack it but we know Dr. Mario has the same moves in Melee.

2. The game is coming out in 12 hours in Japan. Someone can confirm it the next day how much of a clone Dark Pit.

3. The entire argument on Dark Pit are on the same side. Saying Sakurai is bias and/or he should be a costume is on the same side of "Dark Pit should not be in Smash". This is already on the Broken Base page and should not be repeated twice.

4. I'm waiting for the final smash. If his final smash is the same as Pit, then there's nothing left to say but pictures have shown that the staff is his final smash which makes his final smash different from all the other clone characters so far. Once the final smash is shown, then he can be put in specific categories. Right now, there is not enough information except from the computer at a low level using him and the leaker failing to get the smash ball that was in front of him.
07:39:25 PM Sep 12th 2014
edited by
Well here link with all final smash.

Dark pit after all he used staff as Final Smash. So made him 92% different to Pit.

But i think he still Base Breaker for everyone that not want clone or that wanna another like Ridley for example.
10:33:01 PM Sep 12th 2014
Kind of obnoxious how people whining about how he's a clone are just grasping straws saying he has the same final smash as Zelda/Sheik never mind Duck Hunt Dog has the same final smash as Captain Falcon or how Dr. Mario has Mario and Lucina has Marth or Falco is still a clone. -sigh- Their logic fails every time.

Did people honestly think we were getting Ridley?! Ridley isn't even popular in Japan. If he can't get in this Smash Brothers, he'll never be playable. This has been going on since Brawl (or maybe Melee. I wasn't an internet kid to go all the way back) and no matter how much the fans shout for Ridley, we have not got him yet we ask for Shulk and he got in very quickly.

11:42:37 AM Sep 29th 2014
edited by
Is it necessary to whine about Ridley?

Look at a Little Mac, he's the perfect example of why character popularity in Japan isn't as relevant as it used to be.
06:16:45 PM Sep 11th 2014
edited by
I wanna add another clone that be Base Breaker in many like Dr. Mario (same or less level depend) that is Dark Pit. Despite for unique than is Kid Icarus series, he more like Moveset Clone in this game, just less speed and more power than diferents of Pit.

The case many people that hate idea anothers clones in game and even he appear in leak be problems for all internet. Even had jokes about him in game.

I not why everyone not thinking about him be Base Breaker, even when he appear Palutena's trailer becoming dicussed about be altenative costume o character.
07:02:56 PM Sep 11th 2014
Add it when we see Dark Pit's final Smash. Otherwise, its just people jumping to conclusion that he is a 100% clone like Lucina.

People act surprise when he was already shown off and the first assumption was that Pit was wearing Dark Pit's outfit.

What pisses me off though is how he has his staff in his artwork and poses but doesn't use it. Unless this is his final smash.

Because the leaker won't even use Dark Pit and only showed off 2 of his abilities.
07:10:31 PM Sep 11th 2014
Plus I don't need to see any hypocritical statements in the scrappy section. Because so far the fanbase is justifying all the clones in the game (Lucina, Dr. Mario and Falco specifically as the minute he was used, the chat room exploded with cheers as he performs the same moves as Fox), but the only reason Dark Pit is getting flak is because of an already Broken Base of Kid Icarus and "Sakurai being bias" while we don't even have his final smash.
03:52:51 PM Sep 11th 2014
Here's a patched up, slightly sorter version of the Ridley debate that was under Epileptic Trees. Not putting it back up till it's considered good to go. Apologies for my initial usage of future tense. I've removed the size thing, as another quick look at the shadow showcases how crazy small Pikachu was compared to Ridley (Not even Bowser is remotely as large). Sakurai's trolling tendencies are removed too, as that wound up irrelevant.

  • The question of Ridley's inclusion in the games is one that's always been hotly debated, but after some showcased footage of Ridley's shadow on the Pyrosphere stage with the caption of "Other boss character appearances", the fans got riled up. One side had noted that the shadow's animations and actions seemed more similar to a player than a boss, while the other side pointed out they had no clue how the bosses would function as they had only seen the Yellow Devil at the time, and how likely it was that Sakurai was more teasing that he would show up as a boss rather than not at all (Metal Face's tease at the end of Shulk's trailer supported this). The latter side wound up right: Ridley is not on the roster.
02:50:34 PM Sep 11th 2014
Everyone, only add Dark Pit, once we see what he does. The leaker failed to use all of his moves and failed to show off his final smash. I keep seeing people say Dark Pit plays like Brawl Pit but I haven't seen anything given I was in the stream when the leaker (failed) to play Dark Pit.
02:15:34 PM Sep 11th 2014
Seems Duck Hunt Dog is going to be a base breaker now. I noticed on youtube comments that some love his inclusion while others hate him for stealing a character slot from other good characters.
02:51:41 AM Sep 11th 2014
Well the leak is confirmed except for Bowser Jr. What do we do with Epileptic (spelling) Tree now?
10:25:28 AM Sep 8th 2014
edited by
Someone really needs to rewrite this part:

(Fourth example in Epileptic Trees)

""A series of Wii U/3DS leaks were released shortly before the Japanese release of the 3DS version, and they supposedly revealed the identities the remaining characters, newcomers and veterans alike:

  • The first of these (the ESRB leak) revealed the return of not only a number Brawl veterans that hadn't been confirmed yet (Wario, Ganondorf, Falco, ROB, and Jigglypuff; with Lucas, Ice Climbers, and Wolf being notable cuts) but also Melee's Dr. Mario; while having Bowser Jr., the Duck Hunt dog, Shulk, and Dark Pit as newcomers.

  • Following this, two other major rumors appeared: one (the Izat True/Motherfucking Leaker leak) provided video evidence that Shulk and Bowser Jr. were joining the roster, and that Ganondorf would be back. This leak also claimed that Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mach Rider, and Impa would be newcomers, and that Mewtwo would return, and he later teased characters that would appear as DLC (which he later admitted he made up, drawing ire from the internet and damaging his own credibility). However, another set of rumors (the Ninka leak) popped up around this time, supporting the presence of Dixie Kong, Ridley, and Mewtwo, but also brought new support for the presence of Chorus Kids after they were believed to have been deconfirmed by the derailing of the Gematsu leak.

  • Shortly after the Ninka leak, another image leak of the roster◊ featured support for both the Gematsu leak (sans Chrom), Ninka's leak, and the ESRB leak (and confirming that Wolf was not cut). While accusations go around that the image is faked, others believe that regardless if the image is real or not, it could be indicative of what the final roster of the game is.

  • Overall, there are a lot of rumors swirling and very few hard facts. However, Shulk was confirmed four days after the video leak, and he used the same artwork that the ESRB leak utilized, giving more credibility to all of these rumors (with the exception of the Izat True/Motherfucking Leaker leak).""

There are some blatantly wrong facts, such as stating that Izat True and MF Leaker are related, and actually they aren't. Also, the third part (the one that refers to the Wolf picture) is, in my opinion, pointless.

I won't be fixing this due to language issues, but if someone is willing to do it, I reccomend him/her to read this: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ninka_kiwi-vaanrose-4chan-esrb-leak-post-mortem-analysis.366774/

Vaanrose's statements pretty much clear the whole mess of misconceptions that happened with these leaks. Quite a good read, I gotta say.


EDIT 29/09/2014: Ignore this. I will be doing it by myself.
03:58:27 PM Sep 5th 2014
Question for LGBT Fanbase trope...can Pit be added. I find it really odd that Pit was one of the biggest targets by the yaoi fanbase in 2008 and he's not listed here...
02:05:52 AM Aug 19th 2014
What happened to all the tropes?! Did someone go on a deleting spree again?!
03:36:46 AM Aug 19th 2014
Where? I still see the lists both here and on the videogame tab.
11:25:00 PM Aug 20th 2014
Oh my page wasn't loading yesterday and deleted pretty much all of what was in Broken Base and Base Breaker. Its fixed now but it gave me a scare given what happened to another fandom...
07:51:22 PM Aug 11th 2014
For the Broken Base, do you think we need to merge some of the topics on there? Assist trophies are brought up twice and I find that rather redundant.
11:16:19 PM Aug 11th 2014
That seems like a case for a merge, yeah.
01:19:56 PM Aug 12th 2014
I merged it but I deleted the Japanese fanbase reaction. I want a link of Japanese forums showing that they're angry like what with happened with Little Mac because I find it odd how they're still complaining about Little Mac when almost all of the characters are based on Japan's requested character.
07:56:42 PM Jul 14th 2014
We need to do something about the Gematsu leaks in this YMMV. Some of the posts are giving it more credit than they actually deserve. Heck, there are people now saying that just because Chrom wasn't confirmed that the whole list shouldn't be questioned...despite the fact 2 characters were confirmed and one was deconfirmed from the list.

For example, if you say a Pokemon from X/Y, that doesn't mean you're correct because its a vague statement. Xermeas is confirmed for X/Y Pokeball and that statement would count. And Palutena was leaked way at the beginning so he can't take credit for that.
04:19:56 PM Jun 15th 2014
It seems like the Pokemon anime's Hate Dumb has invaded this page. Can we tone it down and not start a Fandom Rivalry?
07:06:29 PM Jun 15th 2014
Is it Darth Megatron? He tends to... mention the Pokemon Anime in a lot of other mediums.
08:35:50 PM Jun 15th 2014
Let me check.
09:20:17 PM Jun 15th 2014
Some quick scanning reveals he made at least most of those edits.
09:21:30 PM Jun 15th 2014
edited by
I noticed that too, but wasn't sure if I should say anything.
06:05:13 AM Jun 16th 2014
So... is he wrong? I've been taking his word that Pokémon Speak is hated by fans of the Pokemon games, as I am a fan of them but not really tied to the fandom.

I mean, some of it probably could stand to be pruned for the sake of being a bit contentious, but is there a sizable fandom that feels the same as him?
09:22:43 AM Jun 16th 2014
From what I've seen of fanfics and other members of the fandom I interact with Pokémon Speak is an accepted (though not universally loved) part of the franchise. Many fans simply assume it's how Pokemon talk at this point.

Regardless it's kinda annoying to see so much natter about the Pokemon anime on a Smash page.
11:10:48 AM Aug 22nd 2014
I have personally seen people criticize Smash for using the Pokemon anime portrayal due to either a personal bias against the show, the show being non-canon, or due to the idea that using the anime to portray pokemon goes against the point of this series. I think that mentioning that this criticism exists in YMMV is justified, as long as the examples themselves don't take a side.
10:49:40 PM Sep 29th 2014
On that subject, I have to ask about Greninja's description in the YMMV. It seems much of the descriptions indicates that Greninja is loved for not being based on some major anime counterpart (despite the fact the XY anime had just recently around that time), yet it also place Greninja as a subject of accusation for possibly being based on potential counterparts in the form of Ash's Froakie and Ninja Giot's Greninja.

I personally see Greninja's inclusion the same way as Lucario, the new star Pokémon that Game Freak promotes on several medias (Games, Movies, Anime, Smash Bros). But it seems there two conflicting tales of whether or not Greninja is based on the anime in this page, and many of it is leaning towards it's based on the games not anime. I would like to see some clean up on this issue.
11:38:00 PM Sep 29th 2014
edited by
It's not, people are hating on the Pokémon Speak, which is a major sour spot for the Periphery Demographic (speaking from experience here). Even then it's Love It or Hate It due to the Narm factor of Greninja's silly voice contrasting its otherwise cool appearance and demeanor.
07:57:07 AM Sep 30th 2014
Glad to finally hear someone else thinks that. At this point I just assumed it was just Darth Megatron's opinion. Good to hear that we're not just troping one guy's reactions.
10:41:28 AM Sep 30th 2014
Thanks for the clarification.
03:28:47 PM Apr 7th 2014
edited by

The part in quotation marks is kept on the Wiki. The rest isn't.

There is no way to infer from the context that this article is reliable enough. The original twitter itself is unfindable and cannot be verified. This actually means using it as proof won't work as random tripping was not said. Also, seeing as how Sakurai is often a Lying Creator at times, as he changed his mind of things among games, this even more vague statement doesn't mean much. He said no tripping will return. Clearly some tripping did, meaning that we can't take anything useful from it either.

It's best to just leave it off since people insist on using an unreliable article instead of just waiting and seeing.

...In addition, Diddy's Banana Peels weren't even confirmed. Hinted at. So we couldn't use that write-up either.
08:14:08 AM Apr 8th 2014
The original tweet is irrelevant. A journalist said he had a personal interview with the man, and the whole context of that article is about the random tripping specifically. An article on a known gaming website is enough; we don't need a signed and certified affidavit. You're being a little pedantic here. I don't see anything that makes the article "unreliable."
08:26:32 AM Apr 8th 2014
edited by
Yes, we do need a direct statement from Sakurai, not an article that can't be properly sourced from the official statement.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't call people names. Keep it completely civil, please.

That context is still worthless since that'd be assuming that Sakurai knew 100% what the interviewer meant(assuming the interviewer even said it word for word and didn't paraphrase at all), or that he even was saying random tripping was gone. We can only tell what the interviewer meant, but definitely not what Sakurai meant. It's not reliable, we already know we can't find the real tweet, which is the actual source. It too easily comes off as a potential biased source. There's no way to legitimately rely on it any more.

And yes, the original tweet is extremely relevant, since we don't even know if the article creator is being truthful at all. We're looking for Sakurai's official confirmation random tripping was gone(which there's no way to tell if he definitely meant that no matter what from his specific statement alone. It's purely WMG as it is now). Only the Tweet can tell us anything, and that's gone.

We're still better off just leaving it out to dry since the real source is gone, only left with a "I said this guy said" source. Which is of course unreliable for this wiki. We have to be a lot stricter than this.
08:42:41 AM Apr 8th 2014
Errr... did I miss some name-calling?

But anyway, I think referencing the interview is fine. We have no reason not to trust Kotaku, it's not a random blog but a fairly respecting video game journalism site.

I don't see any mention of forced tripping either way, so that can go. But then again, I don't think anyone had any issue with it so it's not really relevant to Scrappy Mechanic anyway.
08:49:33 AM Apr 8th 2014
The interview did not actually mention random tripping either. It's just apparent to some people.

And calling people "pedantic" is needlessly insulting.

We can't really take anything as confirmed from anyone but Sakurai. Kotaku isn't as reliable as him either. That, and he didn't confirm which kind of tripping would be taken out. Again, it's just better off left out since the article can't properly source the original conversation. No, being a good site doesn't make it as reliable as an official site either. It's not legitimate confirmation. If anything, he did say "No tripping will return" and then some did. Meaning that Lying Creator could too easily be in play right now. Likewise, with no source for the twitter, it's taking the word of a guy that Sakurai said something. Sorry, but I don't see how that's trustworthy enough. It's still unreliable to this day. It was reliable when we could reference or quote the exact twitter post. I looked for that twitter since I saw this article and still couldn't find it anyway. I'm really not so sure it was as real as we think it is.

We're better off keeping this in WMG'ing since the context of Sakurai's reply is not implied like the article writer's was originally.
10:44:45 AM Jun 12th 2013
"While it might not be considered superior to melee, Brawl is still considered ok" What. the. hell. Brawl is almost universally considered to be a better game than melee. The only real exception is the tournament scene, which is a very vocal minority. Just ok? What the hell, It's reviews and its sales speak louder than fans.
11:43:38 AM Jun 12th 2013
That part of it is specifically referring to the people who consider Melee to be inherently better than Brawl.
11:43:10 AM Aug 1st 2012
I still can't believe people think shit like this is acceptable.

  • Which is ironic, considering these people aren't "Stop Having Fun" Guys by definition. "Stop Having Fun" Guys play within the perameters set within the default game, whereas competitive Smash players limit things such as stage selection and item usage. A more vulgar, but ultimately more descriptive term that's used for this kind of Smash player is "tourneyfag".
08:01:19 PM Oct 9th 2011
Are we really going to keep up the Smashboards stuff? That's just going to lead to Flame Bait very quickly.

It's already a very dark topic in Smashboards itself. Are we sure this is a good idea?
02:00:33 PM Oct 22nd 2011
(Late reply, but I've just reincorporated the discussion pages to my watchlist, didn't saw them before)

No, it isn't. In fact, one of the forum rules which also apply on the wiki is that drama importing is forbidden. Add the fact that the deletion of a warning (regarding the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment, no less) and the rule against complaining... well...

@Amagicalbadger: A tip for you: you might want to check Administrivia for all you need to know, as you broke three rules at once. You might get banned for that!
02:20:46 PM Nov 24th 2011
To clarify, the drama thing was only specific to the forums. Anyway, agreed regardless.

It's important to clarify that he was banned in what regions, as that is interesting information. But we don't need to delve heavily into it, as you can go to Smashboards for all your problems.

And yeah, I reported Amagicalbadger in the Ask The Tropers anyway. We took care of it, with some extra wiki magic as is. Hopefully, what we've said should be enough.

Likewise, I do hope that we won't need to ever lock YMMV.
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