History YMMV / SuperSmashBros

16th Jan '17 12:46:22 AM Amagicalbadger
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** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well (mostly just paying attention to the graphics and the volume of content), and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'' was new some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.

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** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well (mostly (and instead mostly just paying attention to perceive the games by the graphics and the volume of content), and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'' was new some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.
16th Jan '17 12:43:40 AM Amagicalbadger
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** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well, and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'', was new some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.

to:

** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well, well (mostly just paying attention to the graphics and the volume of content), and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'', ''Brawl'' was new some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.
16th Jan '17 12:42:08 AM Amagicalbadger
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** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well, and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'', was new some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.
16th Jan '17 12:35:44 AM Amagicalbadger
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** The "[[FanNickname wavedash]]" exploit in ''Melee'' allows a character to slide along the ground by air dodging into it diagonally. Since the character is considered "idle" during the movement, it allows players to do Smash attacks or other moves that require standing still while approaching opponents.

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** The "[[FanNickname wavedash]]" exploit in ''Melee'' ''Melee'', which people can't seem to agree about whether it is actually a bug[[note]]Basically, the physics engine is functioning properly, but the wavedash application appears to be a rather creative use of the air dodge, though director Sakurai noted that wavedashing was already discovered during the development of the game[[/note]], allows a character to slide along the ground by air dodging into it diagonally. Since the character is considered "idle" during the movement, it allows players to do Smash attacks or other moves that require standing still while approaching opponents.diagonally.



** ''Melee'' is the one game in the series that hasn't drawn significant criticism on its own merits. However, the general elitist attitude of a portion of the ''Melee'' player base, which includes bashing any or all of the other games in the series (except [[NostalgiaFilter the N64 original]]), takes the CasualCompetitiveConflict aspect of the ''Smash'' fanbase to new levels and discourages quite a few new players from trying out ''Melee''.

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** ''Melee'' is the one game in the series that hasn't drawn significant criticism on its own merits. However, the general elitist attitude of a portion of the ''Melee'' player base, which includes bashing any or all of the other games in the series (except [[NostalgiaFilter the [[{{Combos}} N64 original]]), original)]], takes the CasualCompetitiveConflict aspect of the ''Smash'' fanbase to new levels and discourages quite a few new players from trying out ''Melee''.
24th Dec '16 9:36:15 PM Midna
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** Most of the Koopalings count, to some degree, despite having cartoonish, silly designs. While Bowser Jr. has BlackBeadEyes that can't really point in any direction and Roy wears sunglasses to the same effect, the other Koopalings don't have their eyes rigged up properly (possibly as a result of being alternate costumes), so they always point straight ahead in some kind of thousand-yard stare.
19th Dec '16 4:42:32 PM Darthrai
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* NeverLiveItDown: Mewtwo will always be remembered for being considered the worst character in ''Melee''. In actuality, Mewtwo's position on the tier list has jumped quite a bit, and is considered to be "merely" low-tier instead of bottom-tier, but Mewtwo continues to be derided for being the worst character in the game. Part of this is due to the discrepancy between his canon appearance and his ''Smash'' appearance; in the ''Pokémon'' games, he is considered to be among the most powerful Pokémon, even among legendaries.

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* NeverLiveItDown: NeverLiveItDown:
**
Mewtwo will always be remembered for being considered the worst character in ''Melee''. In actuality, Mewtwo's position on the tier list has jumped quite a bit, and is considered to be "merely" low-tier instead of bottom-tier, but Mewtwo continues to be derided for being the worst character in the game. Part of this is due to the discrepancy between his canon appearance and his ''Smash'' appearance; in the ''Pokémon'' games, he is considered to be among the most powerful Pokémon, even among legendaries.legendaries.
** Similarly, ''[=SSB4=]'' Diddy Kong will always be remembered for his "Hoo-Hah" and being an [[GameBreaker utterly broken]] invincible character, due to the massive amounts of bile that he raised before his nerfs in version 1.0.6. It doesn't matter that Diddy still wins almost every major tournament thanks to - and only thanks to - his best player [=ZeRo=], which to many people is a painful reminder of the 1.0.4 days.
16th Dec '16 1:58:20 PM Luigifan
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** A common misconception among fans is that children are the primary audience for ''Smash'' (as with some of its constituent franchises such as ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' and ''Franchise/{{Kirby}}''), with the older fans and competitive players as a PeripheryDemographic that Sakurai favors the younger crowd over. While there's no denying that the games are made to be accessible and enjoyable for kids, and that Sakurai favors casual players in general, much of the franchise's marketing (especially in the West) is aimed towards teenagers and older; some kid-oriented marketing is present, but it isn't as prominent as for other ''Nintendo'' franchises (being roughly on the same level as ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda''[='=]s kid-focused marketing). There are very elements in each game are clearly meant for the older crowd, including characters from franchises that kids ignore such as ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', ''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'' and ''Franchise/MetalGear'', retro gaming allusions, and Zero Suit Samus' and Shulk's [[{{Fanservice}} intentionally revealing outfits]] in the fourth game. The age-18-to-25 group, a mere subset of the older demographic, [[http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/30/super-smash-bros-helping-pokemon-pre-orders/ makes up 30% of the 3DS version's audience in Japan and 50% in the West]].
** The fourth game suffers more from this than previous entries. In North America, it has an E10+ rating rather than its predecessors' T for Teen (possibly for the sake of Amiibo marketing). This, along with its brighter and more colorful palette as opposed to Brawl's comparative use of RealIsBrown (and the absence of [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]]) leads quite a few people (both fans and non-fans) to label ''Smash 4'' as a "kids' game". This seems to have ended after all the game's DLC characters were revealed; except for Mewtwo and possibly Lucas, most of them are from series that skew more towards older fans, particularly the third-party characters (''especially'' the M-rated VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}) despite Snake not returning. Even Mewtwo & Lucas' presence could partially be directed at older fans, as Mewtwo is highly popular among fans of the [[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue first generation of Pokémon games]] and is based on the Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'' who hasn't reappeared in years, and ''VideoGame/{{Mother 3}}'' was only released in Japan over a decade ago, making Lucas one of the most obscure characters in ''Smash'' and therefore mostly unrecognizable among younger players.

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** A common misconception among fans is that children are the primary audience for ''Smash'' (as with some of its constituent franchises such as ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' and ''Franchise/{{Kirby}}''), with the older fans and competitive players as a PeripheryDemographic that Sakurai favors the younger crowd over. While there's no denying that the games are made to be accessible and enjoyable for kids, and that Sakurai favors casual players in general, much of the franchise's marketing (especially in the West) is aimed towards teenagers and older; some kid-oriented marketing is present, but it isn't as prominent as for other ''Nintendo'' franchises (being roughly on the same level as ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda''[='=]s kid-focused marketing). There are very elements in each game that are very clearly meant for the older crowd, including characters from franchises that kids ignore such as ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', ''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'' and ''Franchise/MetalGear'', retro gaming allusions, and Zero Suit Samus' and Shulk's [[{{Fanservice}} intentionally revealing outfits]] in the fourth game. The age-18-to-25 group, a mere subset of the older demographic, [[http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/30/super-smash-bros-helping-pokemon-pre-orders/ makes up 30% of the 3DS version's audience in Japan and 50% in the West]].
** The fourth game suffers more from this than previous entries. In North America, it has an E10+ rating rather than its predecessors' T for Teen (possibly for the sake of Amiibo {{Amiibo}} marketing). This, along with its brighter and more colorful palette as opposed to Brawl's comparative use of RealIsBrown (and the absence of [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]]) leads quite a few people (both fans and non-fans) to label ''Smash 4'' as a "kids' game". This seems to have ended after all the game's DLC characters were revealed; except for Mewtwo and possibly Lucas, most of them are from series that skew more towards older fans, particularly the third-party characters (''especially'' the M-rated VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}) despite Snake not returning. Even Mewtwo & Lucas' presence could partially be directed at older fans, as Mewtwo is highly popular among fans of the [[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue first generation of Pokémon games]] and is based on the Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'' who hasn't reappeared in years, and ''VideoGame/{{Mother 3}}'' was only released in Japan over a decade ago, making Lucas one of the most obscure characters in ''Smash'' and therefore mostly unrecognizable among younger players.



** One of the biggest praising points for ''[=SSB4=]'' on the Wii U is that it looks ''beautiful''. The 3DS version is no slouch either, with some of the best graphics ever seen on the console - as noted below, it pushes the 3DS's processing power to the limit. While the graphics aren't as crisp, smooth or detailed as their home console counterpart, they're consistently displayed in full 3D.
** In addition to the above, many characters also got special 'posters' with them interacting with many different fighters from the game, sometimes these can be a MythologyGag such as [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/rockman/illust-modal.jpg Mega Man's art]] being reminiscent of his old Japanese box arts featuring him with 8 Robot Masters with the BigBad overhead, or just be thematically awesome as well as beautiful like [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/bayonetta/illust-modal.jpg Bayonetta's art]] which shows her in the center of a grudge match of 'light vs darkness'.

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** One of the biggest praising points for ''[=SSB4=]'' on the Wii U is that it looks ''beautiful''. The 3DS version is no slouch either, with some of the best graphics ever seen on the console - -- as noted below, it pushes the 3DS's processing power to the limit. While the graphics aren't as crisp, smooth smooth, or detailed as their home console counterpart, they're consistently displayed in full 3D.
** In addition to the above, many characters also got special 'posters' with them interacting with many different fighters from the game, sometimes these can be a MythologyGag such as [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/rockman/illust-modal.jpg Mega Man's art]] being reminiscent of his old Japanese box arts featuring him with 8 Robot Masters with the BigBad overhead, or just be thematically awesome as well as beautiful like [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/bayonetta/illust-modal.jpg Bayonetta's art]] art]], which shows her in the center of a grudge match of 'light vs darkness'.



** Master Core in ''3DS/Wii U''. It's [[MarathonBoss long]] and it's [[ThatOneBoss hard]], yet the pacing of the fight is faster than any boss in the series, and it breaks all standards that previous bosses established, including [[SequentialBoss multiple phases]] and ''picking up Final Destination and dropping it''. The presentation is fantastic as well, being one of the ultimate examples of an EldritchAbomination, revealing the [[OneWingedAngel true form]] of Master Hand, and a satisfying final phase where the player is given free to reign to cut loose.

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** Master Core in ''3DS/Wii U''. It's [[MarathonBoss long]] and it's [[ThatOneBoss hard]], yet the pacing of the fight is faster than any boss in the series, and it breaks all standards that previous bosses established, including [[SequentialBoss multiple phases]] and ''picking up Final Destination and dropping it''. The presentation is fantastic as well, being one of the ultimate examples of an EldritchAbomination, revealing the [[OneWingedAngel true form]] of Master Hand, and a satisfying final phase where the player is given free to reign to cut loose.



** [[VideoGame/ZeldaIITheAdventureOfLink Temple]], first appearing in ''Melee''. While it's banned in TournamentPlay, it is one of the most beloved stages in non-serious play because there's so much room to move around. It's also got a huge variety of terrain shapes to suit many situations. You have a section with a handful of small platforms, two platforms facing each other over a gap, a long platform with a solid floor under it, two cliffs leading to lower platforms, a tunnel, a small arena with a roof, a vertical tunnel, and a tiny arena with a ceiling over two pits. This lets you do pretty much whatever you want from having air battles with the platforms and cliffs to having close brawls in the tighter arena areas to trying to go defensive when weak in one of the areas with ceilings. The cave/tunnel area in particular is popular for having impromptu "cage matches". Even seriously-heavy-hitting moves like Captain Falcon's "Falcon Punch" or Mr. Game and Watch's "Judgement #9" don't knock enemies out, they just entertainingly bounce around like pinballs due to the walls and ceiling. It's no surprise it returns in both ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U'', the former giving it a new song, and the latter giving it a beautiful makeover as well as a plethora of songs, including songs from ''Zelda'' stages that didn't make it into ''[=SSB4=]'', and from ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkBetweenWorlds A Link Between Worlds]]''. Of course since this often falls into ComplacentGamingSyndrome in casual play, many consider this ThatOneLevel for its overuse.

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** [[VideoGame/ZeldaIITheAdventureOfLink Temple]], first appearing in ''Melee''. While it's banned in TournamentPlay, it is one of the most beloved stages in non-serious play because there's so much room to move around. It's also got a huge variety of terrain shapes to suit many situations. You have a section with a handful of small platforms, two platforms facing each other over a gap, a long platform with a solid floor under it, two cliffs leading to lower platforms, a tunnel, a small arena with a roof, a vertical tunnel, and a tiny arena with a ceiling over two pits. This lets you do pretty much whatever you want want, from having air battles with the platforms and cliffs to having close brawls in the tighter arena areas to trying to go defensive when weak in one of the areas with ceilings. The cave/tunnel area in particular is popular for having impromptu "cage matches". Even seriously-heavy-hitting moves like Captain Falcon's "Falcon Punch" or Mr. Game and Watch's "Judgement #9" don't knock enemies out, they just entertainingly bounce around like pinballs due to the walls and ceiling. It's no surprise it returns in both ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U'', the former giving it a new song, and the latter giving it a beautiful makeover as well as a plethora of songs, including songs from ''Zelda'' stages that didn't make it into ''[=SSB4=]'', and from ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkBetweenWorlds A Link Between Worlds]]''. Of course course, since this often falls into ComplacentGamingSyndrome in casual play, many consider this ThatOneLevel for its overuse.
16th Dec '16 1:51:22 PM Luigifan
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** Mewtwo was one of, if not the most, unpopular characters to play in ''Melee'', due to its highly unorthodox design and being considered the worst character in the game at the time. Cue ''Brawl''[='s=] release, and a large portion of the fanbase complains about its exclusion, and with the 3DS/Wii U installments, there are those who dearly wished for the return. Thankfully, Sakurai and company listened to the fanbase and released the character as DLC for the fourth game (and even made it free if you bough both versions).

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** Mewtwo was one of, if not the most, unpopular characters to play in ''Melee'', due to its highly unorthodox design and being considered the worst character in the game at the time. Cue ''Brawl''[='s=] release, and a large portion of the fanbase complains about its exclusion, and with the 3DS/Wii U installments, there are those who dearly wished for the return. Thankfully, Sakurai and company listened to the fanbase and released the character as DLC for the fourth game (and even made it free if you bough bought both versions).
8th Dec '16 6:11:59 AM Midna
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** Potential for "camping" -- hiding out in a closed-off or far-off area of the stage to stall the match or survive higher damage (Examples: Yoshi's Island 64, Temple)
** An overly large or irregular layout, which can drag out a match (Examples: 75m, New Pork City, Temple, Palutena's Temple, The Great Cave Offensive)

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** Potential for "camping" -- hiding out in a closed-off or far-off area of the stage to stall the match or survive higher damage (Examples: Yoshi's Island 64, Temple)
Temple, Palutena's Temple, The Great Cave Offensive)
** An overly large or irregular layout, which can drag out a match (Examples: Sector Z, 75m, New Pork City, Temple, Palutena's Temple, The Great Cave Offensive)



** Elements that give a significant advantage or disadvantage towards certain characters (Examples: Saffron City (against Ness), [[OverlyLongGag Temple]] (against anyone slow and/or lacking projectiles)) This includes all stages with walk-off edges automatically, as they give an advantage to characters poor at recovery and/or knockback[[note]]Little Mac in ''Wii U / 3DS'' is an extreme example, as on a walkoff stage, he instantly goes from a JokeCharacter to a GameBreaker due to his AchillesHeel no longer being a factor[[/note]], along with giving anyone who's a victim of a throw no chance to come back from it.
** Elements that cause one or more [[GameBreakingBug Game-Breaking Bugs]] (Example: Fountain of Dreams[[note]]In ''Melee'' only; ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' fixes it.[[/note]] (in team matches; the SceneryPorn causes lag), any DummiedOut stages in the first game (known to have invisible walls and/or pull opponents past the boundaries randomly), Wuhu Island (the boat has funky collisions that can immediately KO a fighter).)
** Difficult-to-avoid or overly lethal hazards (Examples: Planet Zebes, Jungle Japes, Icicle Mountain, Rumble Falls, Summit). Stages with ''predictable'' hazards that don't affect gameplay too heavily ''used to'' be acceptable (namely Rainbow Cruise and Poké Floats) but are increasingly frowned upon as well after several rules revisions.

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** Elements that give a significant advantage or disadvantage towards certain characters (Examples: Saffron City (against City, Fourside (both against Ness), [[OverlyLongGag Temple]] Temple, Palutena's Temple, The Great Cave Offensive]] (against anyone slow and/or lacking projectiles)) projectiles) Delfino Plaza, and The Halberd[[note]]''SSB4'' only[[/note]] (towards characters with strong up throws)). This includes all stages with walk-off edges automatically, as they give an advantage to characters poor at recovery and/or knockback[[note]]Little Mac in ''Wii U / 3DS'' is an extreme example, as on a walkoff stage, he instantly goes from a JokeCharacter rather poor to a GameBreaker one of the best characters in the game due to his AchillesHeel no longer being a factor[[/note]], along with giving anyone who's a victim of a throw no chance to come back from it.
** Elements that cause one or more [[GameBreakingBug Game-Breaking Bugs]] (Example: Fountain of Dreams[[note]]In ''Melee'' only; ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' fixes it.[[/note]] (in team matches; the SceneryPorn causes lag), lag) and any DummiedOut stages in the first game (known to have invisible walls and/or pull opponents past the boundaries randomly), Wuhu Island (the boat has funky collisions that can immediately KO a fighter).randomly).)
** Difficult-to-avoid or overly lethal hazards (Examples: Planet Zebes, Jungle Japes, Icicle Mountain, Rumble Falls, Summit).Summit, all of the Flat Zones, and Garden of Hope). Stages with ''predictable'' hazards that don't affect gameplay too heavily ''used to'' be acceptable (namely Rainbow Cruise and Poké Floats) but are increasingly frowned upon as well after several rules revisions.



** ''Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS'' is hit hard with this, as the vast majority of stages are even more dynamic than in past games. It tries to address the trope by having two modes of online play when playing with random players. "For Fun" removes Final Destination from the list of stages that can be picked while "For Glory" has people playing nothing but Final Destination and variants of other stages in the game that are a "Final Destination" version, or flat in other words. However, this has also been a controversial move, as contrary to popular belief, Final Destination is known among the metagame-savvy to be one of the ''least''-balanced legal stages in the series; even with the removal of Chaingrabbing in ''Wii U /3DS'', thus taking out the largest game-changer on that stage[[note]]In past games, Final Destination's lack of platforms was notorious for allowing repeated grabbing and throwing upward for massive damage unobstructed[[/note]], there is still a noticeable skew in favor of "campy" characters such as the Links due to having no place to dodge their projectiles.

to:

** ''Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS'' is hit hard with this, as the vast majority of stages are even more dynamic than in past games. It tries to address the trope by having two modes of online play when playing with random players. "For Fun" removes Final Destination from the list of stages that can be picked while "For Glory" has people playing nothing but Final Destination and variants of other stages in the game that are a "Final Destination" version, or flat in other words. However, this has also been a controversial move, as contrary to popular belief, Final Destination is known among there's some debate over whether or not it skews matches in favor of "campy" characters such as the metagame-savvy to be one of the ''least''-balanced legal stages in the series; Links, or, notoriously, Little Mac, even with the removal of Chaingrabbing chaingrabbing in ''Wii U /3DS'', thus /3DS'' taking out the largest game-changer on that stage[[note]]In past games, Final Destination's lack of platforms was notorious for allowing repeated grabbing and throwing upward for massive damage unobstructed[[/note]], there is still a noticeable skew in favor of "campy" characters such as the Links due to having no place to dodge their projectiles.unobstructed[[/note]].



-->'''Snake''': Mei Ling, [[ShedArmorGainSpeed Samus took her clothes off!]].

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-->'''Snake''': Mei Ling, [[ShedArmorGainSpeed Samus took her clothes off!]].off!]]
7th Dec '16 8:02:53 AM Darthrai
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* SacredCow:
** ''Melee'' fans infamously treat their game as such, heavily criticizing any ''Smash'' game that doesn't have similar gameplay while praising non-Nintendo, non-crossover {{Platform Fighter}}s such as ''VideoGame/RivalsOfAether'' based on their mechanics alone. While there's no denying that ''Melee'' is one of the greatest and most influential fighting games of all time, this has led to the infamous FandomRivalry between ''Melee'' and newer installments.
** Heavily-requested characters that haven't yet been made playable can also become this, especially if they come from an "underrepresented" series, such as with King K. Rool from the barely represented ''VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry'' series.
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