Misused: The Dragon

The Dragon is supposed to be the character presenting the penultimate challenge that the heroes must face before confronting the Big Bad. But most of the time I see it misused as the Big Bad's Number Two, right-hand man, second-in-command... etc

This had also led to several Zero Context Examples in the form of "The Dragon: X to Big Bad" or "The Dragon: X is this to Big Bad"

Wick Check:

• Ace Lightning:
  • One used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it’s being used correctly.
  • 2 Zero Context Examples.
• Alone in the Dark: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Anime & Manga: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• A Taste of Power: 2 potholes, one to the word "Dragon", the other to a character's name.
• BB Senshi Sangokuden:
  • 4 Zero Context Examples.
  • One use as part of a sentence - which mentions only that the character is extremely loyal to the Big Bad.
• Bleach: Pothole to a character's name.
• Burial at Sea: Zero Context Example.
• Conveniently Cellmates: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Darklords: Zero Context Example.
• Deuteragonist:
  • Potholed to the words "high ranking" as part of the work page description.
  • Potholed to "Darth Vader".
  • Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
  • Potholed to character's name.
• Dracula:
  • Used as part of a sentence with the context making it clear that it's being used as a synonym for right-hand man.
  • 3 Zero Context Examples.
• El Cazador de la Bruja: Zero Context Example.
• Expecting Someone Taller: Potholed to the word "deputy".
• Fed to the Beast: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Foe-Tossing Charge:
  • One pothole to the a character's name.
  • Another potholed to the "right-hand man".
• Genius Bruiser: Potholed to a character's surname.
• Green Zone: Zero Context Example.
• Heroes of the Desk: Repercussions: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• I Have You Now, My Pretty: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Jasper City: Zero Context Example.
• Killer Teddy Bear: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Legacy of Kain: 4 Zero Context Examples, the last one one the same line as The Lancer.
• Live-Action TV: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• MadMaze: One Zero Context Example, 2 potholes to a character's name.
• MechQuest: Zero Context Example.
• Moby-Dick: Zero Context Example.
• NEEDLESS: Misused as the strongest of the Big Bad's minions.
• Ominous Opera Cape: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• PAYDAY 2: Misused as the Big Bad's second in command.
• Power Gives You Wings: Potholed to a character's name.
• Rainbow in Sunnydale: Zero Context Example.
• Rift:
  • One pothole to a sentence that seems to be describing a literal dragon.
  • One Zero Context Example.
  • One misuse that talking about an actual dragon.
• Sarcastic Devotee: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Sherlock Holmes: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Short-Range Long-Range Weapon: 2 uses as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Sorting Algorithm of Face-Heel Turning: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Star Wars: The Clone Wars – Christophsis Arc: Zero Context Example.
• Terrifying Rescuer: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• The Darkness: Zero Context Example.
• The Heritage of Shannara: 2 Zero Context Examples.
• The Mortal Instruments: 2 Zero Context Examples.
• The Sopranos: Law Enforcement and Civilians: Zero Context Example.
• Thief: Zero Context Example.
• Transformers: Generation 1: Potholed to a character's name.
• TV Tropes Additional Evil Overlord Vows Cellblock G: 2 potholes to second in command.
• Video Games: Potholed to "Neo Arcadian General".
• Vocal Dissonance: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• Western Animation: Used as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
• X-Men Film Series: Other Mutants (New Timeline):
  • One use as part of a sentence, doesn't provide enough context to tell whether it's being used correctly.
  • One misuse as the minion who gives orders to the Big Bad's other minions.

Opening this. Given how large this trope is, my sense is that working around the description may be the best way to work.

Also, such popular tropes tend to attract ZCE even without misuse. One needs to work out the use quality from the rest of the work.

I think the problem is that this trope have undergone severe and widespread Trope Decay. People now associate this with "Big Bad's right-hand man" without thinking about the other bits like the physical challenge of the dragon contrasting with the mental challenge of the Big Bad (or vice versa).

I say we redefine to fit the misuse, and take the original definition and put it under a new name.

edited 6th Jan '17 2:29:10 AM by Karxrida

Tough sell. This trope has almost 14000 wicks. And almost 40000 inbounds.

It certainly doesn't help that the trope's picture is... the Emperor's right-hand man. That's why I originally confused The Dragon with Number Two.

The trope description flat-out calls it the right-hand man: "This role is somebody the Big Bad can rely on (or thinks they can rely on) in a time of trouble to step up and beat the living heck out of The Hero, or maybe just take charge for a while, should the Big Bad not be around to do the job. "

I don't see a problem with it being both "the penultimate obstacle before the heroes encounter the Big Bad" and "The Big Bad's right-hand man".

Of course there may be overlap, but in order to avoid confusion, the description should be polished in a way that tells that there is no need for overlap at all and the picture should be changed to a case where The Dragon is not the Number Two.

Well, I for one wouldn't know how The Dragon, as its original definition, would look like. Would it be, like, the boss just before the Final Boss? Something like that?

That's how I understand it, too.

In a video game? Possibly, maybe probably. But It's used heavily outside of video games, so tailoring the definition to those isn't going to help. There may not be a physical confrontation with the Dragon at all, or in literature, it often comes well before the final encounter with the Big Bad.

The original definition seems to overlap quite a bit with The Heavy.

The easiest path forward would certainly be to accept that the tropers have decided what this actually means, and adjust the description to fit.

What does that mean, exactly? Removing Number Two and/or The Heavy because most people think that's The Dragon? Or stating in The Dragon's description there's almost always overlap with those tropes? (I'm assuming the latter, but I'm asking)

edited 6th Jan '17 3:18:10 PM by Gosicrystal

The Dragon is a pre-existing term that goes back to Joseph Campbell, so redefining it to fit the misuse isn't really an option.

90%+ of the misuse is in the form of Zero Context Examples, which will need to be cleaned up no matter what else we do, so doing that wouldn't even save that much work in any case.

edited 6th Jan '17 3:35:01 PM by HighCrate

It can certainly overlap with The Heavy, but that can also be the main antagonist. It depends on what type of story it is, and what kind of antagonist it is.

Likewise, Number Two can be both, but isn't necessarily. The Number Two can be an advisor or general, while The Dragon is the top enforcer.

The Dragon is not necessarily the top enforcer, and in fact the second line of the definition is "Much of the time, but not necessarily, the Big Bad's top enforcer." (Boldface mine.)

The Dragon is the penultimate challenge before confronting the Big Bad. It has everything to do with where the character fits in the narrative and nothing to do with where they fit in the Big Bad's organization or hierarchy.

If The Hero's final challenge is to go on a Journey to the Center of His Own Mind to defeat the personification of his own fear and self-doubt before going on to defeat the Big Bad, then The Hero is The Dragon (or at least his fear and self-doubt is), even though he fits nowhere in the Big Bad's hierarchy.

edited 6th Jan '17 3:57:57 PM by HighCrate

Ah well, if it's part of Campbell's model and it's still used that way beyond the borders of this wiki, then I agree we should stick to that. Wider-world use should always trump our own idiosyncrasies, because we want our content to make sense to the wider world!

(Of course, if our misuse has started to spread to the rest of the world, then things get really messy. I'm hoping we haven't reached that point, though.)

So what, The Dragon and "being the Big Bad's enforcer" can't overlap? What would we do with The Dragon being The Lancer's counterpart and being part of Five Bad Band then?

Nobody said they couldn't overlap. They can and do overlap all the time, which is why it specifically says in the definition that The Dragon is often, but not necessarily the Big Bad's top enforcer.

I can draw you a Venn diagram if you're a visual learner.

edited 6th Jan '17 5:49:02 PM by HighCrate

In the Cambellian sense, they are the last of the Threshold Guardians. Examples that actually treated The Dragon as a subtrope to that would have a much clearer context "before facing X, the protagonist had to..."; In a Cambellian sense, Luke is The Dragon that Vader must face before he is ready to fight Palatine. Anakin and Luke are both trying to convince the other that they must change sides in the war, and Anakin's loss in the argument prompts his decision to banish his Dark Side (shown externally by killing Palatine).

Suggestions for how to fix this:

• Remove the trope image, which is misleading.
• Remove the third paragraph from the description, all of which is commonly associated with The Dragon, but none of which is necessary to count. It muddies the waters.
• Add a line to the first paragraph explicitly pointing out that "the Big Bad's top enforcer" is his Number Two and that the two tropes are not to be confused.
• Take a careful look through the "Tropes related to The Dragon" list for entries that rely on an implicit misuse of The Dragon as Number Two. E.g. Mouth of Sauron is listed, and while there's nothing preventing a Mouth of Sauron from being The Dragon, it's not required or really related in any way. (A Mouth of Sauron is much more likely to be a Number Two, since both require them to be high in the Big Bad's hierarchy.) Some tropes that have "Dragon" in the trope name may need renaming.
• Clean examples and wicks for ZCEs and misuse.

It's a tall order, but I'm not seeing any other good way to handle this.

edited 7th Feb '17 8:16:59 AM by HighCrate

All those suggestions sound good.

I'd agree with broadening the trope to fit the Big Bad's number two, myself.

Why do you think that makes the trope broader?

Mostly just because that's already what people think the trope is and Tropes Are Flexible. And as people have said, there's really nothing that stops evil's right hand man from also being the penultimate challenge.

Also, the corelated trope Co-Dragons is about two or more right hand men. Seems odd that The Dragon is not actually about the Big Bad's right hand man and Co-Dragons is.

edited 7th Feb '17 9:12:04 AM by PhiSat