Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
In some of those cases, I'm thinking of the fact that their primary reason for choosing honor is the fact that it is honorable, with any Reason being secondary to their thinking. Such as the case of assassinating the enemy admiral, the Earl of Thirsk. There are good reasons not to kill him, but the deciding factor is more Would Not Shoot a Good Guy than any of the above. I can see why they may not qualify though, since there are good reasons.
In the case of the second I'm also thinking of things like Merlin fighting the Safehold sea monster to save a bunch of random children. Merlin himself realizes mid act that he wasn't thinking about his actions. There's also his case of Faking the Dead for a random family. He had no reason to do so and the act lets unknown people in on the inner circle's secret knowledge about the church. So maybe his entry needs a bit more.
In that last case, I see the point, by the discussion involves noting the fact that their goals are better served by staying out while doing the honorable thing works against their long term goals.
That's generally how I've understood the trope. Doing the good/right thing even when you know full well it's going to run counter to your goals.
edited 13th Nov '16 1:13:53 PM by sgamer82
- A character who would otherwise be a straight example of Otaku Surrogate, but she doesn't like being tomboyish, and it has been noted that she was being more girly in the Present Day than, say, several years ago. So this is defied, downplayed, or Not An Example?
- It comes from a Trope Finder question, but I would summarize here. A girl has a Reverse Harem but is Oblivious to Love. At one point her mother wants her to marry off with one of the guys, and, among others, sees the local The Smart Guy's genes worth inheriting. Scorpion 451, who I always respect, thinks that is Darwinist Desire in an Vicariously Ambitious kind of way, but I'm unsure whether that trope applies to people who won't be a party of the gamate exchange in question.
edited 14th Nov '16 7:56:34 PM by SamCurt
Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
They technically are part of the lineage of one of the gamete-exchanging parties, though. I think Darwinist Desire can apply if the character is acting to ensure his/her biological legacy is optimized through choosing the "best" mates for their children.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Could someone take a look at these examples.
- Ensemble Dark Horse: The pilot itself in comparison to the other Cartoon Network pilots. In roughly a week it got nearly 700,000 views, more than some other proposed pilots have gotten in months. It already has fan art, communities, theory videos, and a Fan Community Nickname (Passengers) and it hasn't even gotten greenlit as a show yet! The petition to have CN greenlight the show obtained nearly 15,000 signatures within a week of being made.
- The year 2016 has generally become this in the world. Anything good in it has become overshadowed by the massive amount of celebrity deaths such as David Bowie, Gene Wilder, Alan Rickman, and more, increasing racial tension in the United States, a refugee crisis in Europe from migrants fleeing the violence in Syria and Iraq, and the 2016 American presidential election that eventually saw Donald Trump win the election in the face of all of the analysts that said he would lose in a landslide.
- Awesome Art: The first two volumes were drawn by Shane Davis, and they look beautiful. Ardian Syaf also proved himself a worthy replacement for volume 3.
- Base-Breaking Character
- Clark Kent. Fans are conflicted over how "human" Superman should be, how sincere the Clark Kent identity is, his place as The Ace, and of course, accusations that he has to be dragged into saving the day instead of just being The Cape.
- Jimmy Olsen. While he has a lot of fans (see Ensemble Dark Horse bellow), there are some (mostly Lois Lane fans) who think he's a Spot Light Stealing Squad and a Creator's Pet.
- Broken Base:
- Several issues that are particularly contentious in the fanbase are: the change in the cause for Krypton's destruction (some hate the idea of it having an intergalactic conspiracy behind it as a Myth Arc), the occasional speechifying by characters, and from the fact that JMS is seen as a Scrappy Creator by several superfans (being the contested-author of Spider-Man's One More Day, and his abandoned runs on Superman with the Grounded story-arc and on Wonder Woman with the Odyssey story-arc.)
- For fun, go to an online forum and argue about this comic being better or worse than Man of Steel or The New 52 Superman.
- Iron Woobie: Superman himself, considering the amount of things he has to endure in order to save the world.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Tomboy is not a requirement for it, it flat out says so. It's all about the interests and is a very token thing.
For example Cure Peace in Smile Pretty Cure, a Magical Girl series, is super girly and a cry baby but loves and draws male orientated Sentai, Super Robot and Henshin Hero stuff [1]
◊ and directly applies Henshin Hero tropes as Wrong Genre Savvy as a running joke.
She was very successful too considering her popularity with otaku and the amount of fan art oriented around that.
edited 15th Nov '16 5:51:14 AM by Memers
Braids From S286 Not Included
The Ensemble Dark Horse example is most likely a shoehorn, since it refers to a minor character getting a large fan following, not a minisode becoming more popular than the rest of the other works.
Lost in Space
The Overshadowed by Controversy example is invalid. We don't have a Real Life section for that trope for a very good reason, and "general" examples are forbidden, regardless.
Edit: Oh, never mind, it's cleverly disguised as "Other". Wonder if that was ever passed through the Real Life cleanup thread.
edited 15th Nov '16 7:01:50 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
The Dark Lord of Hawaiian Shirts
Is it ok to use Took a Level in Badass and Took a Level in Kindness as incarnation examples in the "Across the Series" folder in Black Adder?
Srg. Dornan: Troper, what are you doing here?! Get back to your post!!!
No, the other one.
I'll bring it up.
I re-wrote the Safehold entries for HonorBeforeReason.Literature. I left the first entry since, while a bit on the general side, it sets the tone for the more specific entries that follow. I removed the one about the concentration camps and ending the war sooner, though I personally think the latter one merits a mention. I added a different one from the same book, though, since having the Honor Before Reason being lampshaded by the person you're being honorable to has to be worth something.
- Safehold:
- The protagonists are frequently shown acting in a manner that, while good and honorable, would not be the smart thing to do when considering things objectively. It isn't entirely without reason, since part of their propaganda war with the Church of God Awaiting involves keeping the moral high ground as much as possible and acting with honor helps with that. Nor are they blind to the cold blooded calculations needed to be efficient heads of state. It's simply that when faced with a decision to do the honorable thing or the rational thing, the protagonists will regularly go for honorable and will even lampshade those rare occasions when the two are one in the same.
- Throughout the series, the protagonists have pondered whether or not to use their access to space-faring level technology, when the rest of the planet is in the age of Wooden Ships and Iron Men, to assassinate enemy leaders. In the specific case of the Kingdom of Dohlar's Earl of Thirsk, the most capable commander the Church has, the reasons given for and against getting rid of him, or planting evidence to get the distrusting Inquisition to get rid of him, fall secondary to the protagonists' feeling that, despite which side he's on, he's also the most honorable commander the enemy has and deserves better than that.
- The ninth book features the Earl of Thirsk learning his family, which he recently thought killed in a tragic accident, is alive and in Charisian hands. While this is a relief, since the alternative was their being in the Inquisition's custody for "protection", Thirsk fully expects Charis to hold the situation over his head. To his surprise, the one who revealed this to him explains that Charis has no intention of doing any such thing. Thirsk is taken aback by this, since he knows Cayleb and Sharleyan are pragmatic enough not to miss the opportunity the situation presents to have the enemy navy's top commander in their grasp. He sarcastically asks if they're acting out of the goodness of their hearts and is told that, in fact, yes, it is partly out of that. Their other main reason for giving him this knowledge is to free him from the threat of coercion from either side, giving him to freedom to act as he sees fit.
- Over the course of the series, the Earl of Thirsk has becomes increasingly disillusioned with the Church's holy war against Charis, but can not Opt Out or even contemplate switching sides because he takes his oaths of loyalty to his king and Mother Church seriously and feels obligated to adhere to them, even after the incident from the ninth book.
- Merlin has a case of Chronic Hero Syndrome such that he'll leap into danger to protect an innocent or someone he cares about, even when doing so requires exposing his more than human abilities, which could potentially undermine everything the protagonists are working towards if people regard those abilities as demonic. Examples include jumping into the ocean from the top of a building to save random children from a sea monster attack and Faking the Dead for a family in one of the Inquistion's concentration camps, which reveals Safehold's Dark Secret to them in the process, because of the daughter's determination to get help for her father and brother. He's aware of this trait, but acknowledges that he can not bring himself to act any other way. Fortunately for Merlin this trait only tends to cement his friends' belief and loyalty toward him since it confirms he's anything but demonic.
- When the Inquisition provokes civil war in the Republic of Siddarmark, the Empire of Charis works to get relief efforts to the Republic as soon as possible. The narration notes they do this, perhaps, more quickly than they should, given that their fast response could hint at their ability to see what's going on nearly anywhere in the world. It's also noted Charis sent these relief efforts with no strings attached, when they could easily have used it as a bargaining chip. The act still earns the Charisians a great deal of Siddarmarkian goodwill, but this is regarded by the Charisian leadership as a bonus, rather than the end goal.
Also, could that ninth book entry count as a case of Wild Card? That trope seems to be considered mostly for villainous characters, while the Earl of Thirsk is an Anti-Villain at worst. But it does put him in a position to act freely with neither side knowing what he'll do (though the protagonists at least assume it will be to their benefit).
edited 15th Nov '16 8:51:11 AM by sgamer82
World's Toughest Milkman
The answer to that requires some knowledge of Blackadder. But I would say no, neither trope applies. The different Blackadder characters of each series are implied to be related by descent, but are not actually different incarnations of the same character. It is a bit of an unusual case, though, so I'd be willing to hear counterarguments.
The Dark Lord of Hawaiian Shirts
The Blackadder Series, or main series has four Seasons, which each centering around a decendant of the Blackadder Family. First from the dark ages, the Second during Queen Elizabeth I's reign, Third in the 18th century, I believe and the Fourth in WWI.
Here are the texts I'd like to apply in case they're approved.
- Took a Level in Badass: The Blackadders becomes braver with each incarnation. The first is a sniveling coward. The second is much more calm when he's in trouble. The third is remarkably brave by the fact that he risks his life for his boss in the final episode and only survives because of dumb luck. The fourth is (mileage may vary) a Cowardly Lion at worst, as he tries to escape the trenches and keeps his cool even when he realize there is no escape.
- Took a Level in Kindness: Zig-Zagged Trope with each Blackadder. The second generally had more standards than the first, on both moral and pragmatic grounds. The third bounces back and is the most evil of the lot, as he had several characters murdered in cold blood during the season. The fourth is the least evil of the lot, as he's just a Jerkass who wants to escape the trenches and isn't trying to have anyone killed over it and he even shows sincere consern for his men at occations. He also gets a huge one in the final episode when all hope is lost. Instead of crossing the Despair Event Horizon, he drops the battleaxe, treats his men and his rival, Captain Darling, with respect when the latter is sent to the front as well.
edited 15th Nov '16 1:39:45 PM by Hawaii_Knut
Srg. Dornan: Troper, what are you doing here?! Get back to your post!!!
Lord of the Blue Star
I found these two examples on The Dresden Files Small Favor YMMV page:
- Harsher in Hindsight When it is all over, Harry is resting on the Water Beetle after being rescued from the ice cold lake water. Because Thomas gave him dry clothes and hot coffee, Harry tells him he will leave everything to Thomas in his will. Thomas replies, "Cool. Next time I'll leave you in the water." Roughly two years later, Harry would be shot off the bow of the Water Beetle and fall into the waters of Lake Michigan, where he dies.
This uses information from a future book, and the point is a major spoiler. While I agree with the intent, ought it be only placed on the series' total YMMV page, and for the book this becomes harsher?
- Stupid Good: The Summer court and by extension Titania is essentially this. Titania is trying to kill Harry for killing her daughter Aurora, that she knew was insane but did nothing about, so she sends the brother's gruff after him. The first thing they do is attack Harry and an innocent family. And this is before Harry was asked to help Winter so they had no excuse to do so. Then they continue to try and kill him and by extension help the people Harry is trying to stop. Those people are THE DENARIANS! Harry even calls them out on why the good fairies would help the Denarians kidnap and brainwash the archive knowing how much damage it would do. The response he gets is why is the evil fairy is trying to stop them. Which doesn't change the fact that they are knowingly aiding them because Titania is blaming Harry for what was essentially her fault.
- This continues through the other books as the Summer Court simply being inept and idiots. Reasoning of the heart aside not a single one of them ever does anything worth intelligence. For being the nicer side of their courts it's almost incredible that the entire thing hasn't destroyed itself at this point.
While a poorly written rant, in my own view, looking over I don't think this even fits with Stupid Good because, first, the Summer and Winter Courts have a very Orange and Blue morality system, and second, by her nature Titania generally acts against whatever Mab wants done. Stupid Good is more a Knight of the Cross dropping his weapon against Nicodemus to offer him a chance of redemption. Plus, the scope of the Denarian's plan isn't known until later, meaning the authorof the post is granting omniscience to the Summer Court or at least Titania.
Should both be removed?
There may be some omniscience when it comes to knowing what Mab is doing, bu totherwise yeah, that doesn't really fit. I forget exactly why Titania was out for Harry in Small Favor. A minor point as well is that we later learn just why Aurora went insane, which had nothing directly to do with Titania, so calling it "her fault" is inaccurate in any case.
Lord of the Blue Star
Sanya, Knight of the Cross from The Dresden Files, would he qualify as a Knight Errant? He wanders the land. Unlike Michael, doesn't seem to have a family to go home to. He helps out on many levels. And his compensation is knowing he did the right thing.
World's Toughest Milkman
No. The point is that the different Blackadders, as I said above, are not incarnations! They are separate characters, related by blood. So the Blackadder in series 4 didn't "take a level" in anything. He's not the same character! He's not a time traveler. (At least not until Blackadder: Back and Forth, and even that Blackadder is a different character).
There are four (or six, if you count Back and Forth and A Blackadder Christmas) separate characters named Blackadder who all happen to be played by the same actor. And yes, they all have a servant named Baldrick, which would be an improbable coincidence if the show were anything but a complete tongue-in-cheek comedy. The different Baldricks are different people as well, even though they're all idiots, and all have cunning plans.
The "Took a Level In..." tropes are about character development. So they don't apply across different characters from different centuries who merely share a family name.
(When I said an answer to your question required knowledge of the show, I wasn't suggesting that I lacked such knowledge.)
edited 16th Nov '16 11:28:31 AM by Xtifr
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Lord of the Blue Star
In Burn Notice season 2 episode "Comrades" Sam needs to wine and dine information out of the secretary of a major agricultural group. The man knows his time and knowledge is valuable and gets Sam to take him out to dinner to a place resulting in a $600 bill and doesn't give Sam anything, requiring several more wine and dine sessions. Sam eventually pretends he is part of the DEA and scares the guy into giving him the needed information.
While not the red-tape wielding bureaucrat, considering his behavior and necessitating people follow his personal procedures, namely a great meal and suck up to him, is this a type of Obstructive Bureaucrat?
edited 17th Nov '16 5:08:04 AM by isoycrazy
Would this count as Noodle Implements?
In an episode of The Penguins of Madagascar, Kowalski needs to fix the transmission on a toy car. Skipper has Rico cough up a screwdriver, rubber mallet, crowbar, fan blades, a snow globe, anchor, ukulele, pay phone, and 10,000 ball bearings.
edited 17th Nov '16 11:53:37 AM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lost in Space
Most definitely. Rico could be the avatar of Noodle Implements in the Pantheon.
Definitely not. Obstructive Bureaucrat requires someone who obnoxiously refuses to perform their job in a useful way while not breaking any obvious rules. Unless this guy's job is divulging information to people in wine-and-dine settings, the scenario as described is more a case of someone taking advantage of their position for personal gain.
edited 17th Nov '16 12:00:59 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
In other words, Corrupt Corporate Executive (albeit possibly a low-ranking one) may apply.
Lost in Space
The Unknown
I think Blackadder could count despite each descendant being a different person because they're all basically the same character (bar the first one being kind of an idiot). I say Tropes Are Flexible in this instance.
edited 17th Nov '16 6:03:24 PM by Karxrida
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
The main characters of Don't Hug Me I'm Scared are described as "The [Color] Guy". Would this be A Dog Named "Dog", because their name is just what they are? Or is it Shaped Like Itself because it's not like anyone named the characters?
No, the other one.
They're still different characters. That's shoehorning.
Doesn't sound like it. Referring to someone by a description isn't the same as naming them after that description.
RE: Safehold/honor before reason.. Most of those don't really fit.
The 1st and 4th, while they do fit with their desire to be Good people are also necessary for the propaganda side of the conflict. So, Reason isn't being ignored, they just aren't making the military side paramount.
2nd - with a tiny number of exceptions (the rescue of Sharleyan come to mind), she always strives to insure that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened.
3rd - Doesn't really feel like it to me, but I can see the reasoning behind it so it could fit.
5th - Sure
6th - Since I haven't read the most recent book yet (been very busy, going to get around to it in a few days), I can only go by the description here. From that, nope not even close. Ending the war now instead of finishing it just means MORE suffering and deaths down the line when round two eventually happens. "I'm tired of the fighting" isn't 'honor', it is weariness - perfectly normal, but not this trope. Now, there may be something in the book that isn't covered in the example that may make it fit, but as written no.
edited 13th Nov '16 11:42:35 AM by Zyffyr