NATTER ALERT!

I don't think the top-level example is generic. Engines don't have sufficient creative depth that they must be treated individually in this context; if all engines with nitrous oxide injectors share this problem, then it's silly to insist that examples be specific about exactly which model of engine.

This is in contrast to, say, movies, where no two movies treat a trope in exactly the same way, so saying something like "All Japanese horror movies do this" is indeed too generic.

EDITED: The remainder of the example is quite natter-infested, though, and should be cleaned up. Much of the information doesn't even belong in that example.

edited 14th Sep '17 8:36:33 AM by GnomeTitan

Something that the TRS thread for Hollywood Personality Disorders noticed- Hollywood Psych has a lot of long, rambly examples, as well as a handful of armchair diagnoses of the "this character looks like they might have Asperger's" sort. The latter problem, at least, is nowhere near as bad as on Hollywood Personality Disorders.

That was me who brought that up. That whole page needs a scrub.

At the very least, it's probably okay to start by scrubbing the examples that properly belong on one of its subtropes (schizophrenia has two, and autism/Asperger's... if Asperger's can go under Hollywood Autism?)

The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard is a natter minefield. This may be partly due to people adding "I don't like how the RNG turns out, it must be cheating!!" so often despite the trope description specifically forbidding this, but that's a different problem and idk if we have a thread for that kind of thing.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

In Nightmare Retardant:

• Up and sleepless at 3AM because you watched Marble Hornets? No worries.
  • In the similar Marble Bumblebee, Slendy comes off as clumsy, petty, or an attention whore.
  • No wifin in da club, Gimme 20 dollas...
  • When you've seen a few other Alternate Reality Games have the wind taken out of them by people making jokes (such as Slendy just wanting to get buff) or saying "this is all fak y u guys takng so srsly", it becomes clear that this is why MH disabled comments on their videos.
  • Also, on the Marble Hornets DVD; watch the entries with the DVD commentary on. It's hard to take entry #1 seriously ever again while Troy Wagner (i.e. Jay) explains how Joseph DeLage (i.e. Alex) made a promise to go streaking if the video ever reached a million hits on Youtube. And they absolutely RUIN the Totheark videoes in terms of scariness. The boys realise they're too short for proper commentary, so they just put stupid jokes over the top of them. More or less the commentary removes all the scary and replaces it with pure, unadulterated funny.
  • Also, if you're unfamiliar with The Slender Man Mythos, you might mistake Slendy for Jack Skellington. In fact, in Seeking Truth, Zeke even refers to the drawings made by the first victim as ". . . what looked like Jack Skellington with about six extra arms and no eye holes, or any facial features, for that matter."
  • In the radio interview with the two creators, they mention how any attempt to make the Operator's head snap towards the camera in Entry 6 resulted in a A Night at the Roxbury head bop on the Operator. Cue Haddaway!
  • The whole mood is also a bit lost when you realize that, with Slendy spending most of his times watching hidden in the background, most entries on the mythos can be seen as Where's Waldo?'s spooky cousin...
  • For the realization of a similar concept, see this video, courtesy of Retsupurae.
  • There's also "Trenderman", a character created on Tumblr after someone noted that the faceless, featureless clothing store mannequins resemble Slenderman. He generally shows up just to give fashion advice.
  • Any of the shorts on troyhasacamera, and the simple knowledge that these are the same people behind Marble Hornets, is enough to put one's mind at ease just a bit.
  • There's also the fact that the first appearance of Slender Man online was on Something Awful, during one of their regular Photoshop competitions.

And there's more on the page.

edited 6th Oct '17 8:56:17 AM by Gosicrystal

From the Fridge Logic section of Fridge.Lego Dimensions:

• It seems inconsistent that Robin would need a breathing apparatus to swim underwater, but Ethan Hunt and the Goonies wouldn't. Teen Titans Go! Robin doesn't need one, either.
  • Ethan Hunt being able to breathe underwater is most likely a shoutout to Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation's extended freediving sequence. Tom Cruise can apparently hold his breath for six minutes...
    • Six minutes sounds shorter than the eternity at which Lego Ethan can stay underwater, though. In fact, the very sequence you mentioned helped me notice the inconsistency.^note Remember how it ended with Ethan almost drowning, until Ilsa brought him back to the surface?

Can I condense it to this:

• It seems inconsistent that Robin would need a breathing apparatus to swim underwater, but Ethan Hunt^note Yes, Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation showed that Ethan could hold his breath for six minutes, but it also showed that he can't stay underwater for any longer than that. and the Goonies wouldn't. Teen Titans Go! Robin doesn't need one, either.

I felt obligated to ask because I didn't write the part with two bullet points.

In Non-Standard Game Over, there's an extra comment on Fatal Fury that is tacked on. It looks like Natter. This is how it's written.

• Normally, losing a fight in the first Fatal Fury leads to a taunting quote from your opponent and a "Continue?" screen showing your fighter's battered picture. Losing to Geese, the last boss, however, gives you a cutscene where he kicks you off of Geese Tower. The "Continue?" screen likewise shows your character plummeting to his death.
  • Given that using a Continue would place you back at the same battle again, one imagines a giant trampoline placed directly under the window...

Zap that second-level bullet, it very much is natter.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

Zapped.

From WellIntentionedExtremist.Anime And Manga:

• The majority of Naruto villains fall under this trope, though the lengths they're willing to go to in the name of "peace" are usually completely ridiculous:
  • Pain, whose goal is to eliminate war. His plan involves collecting all of the Tailed Beasts (killing their human containers in the process) to make a weapon of mass destruction that will kill millions and scare all of the countries into not fighting for a while before fighting inevitably returns, at which point one side will get hold of and use this weapon again, giving rise to another short time of "peace." Small periods of peace is his goal, which shows that he has a better grasp of human nature than Watchmen's Extremist. Human nature perhaps, but international relations? No. He fails that forever.
    • Pain also cannot grasp that the people of the continent (For all that World Peace is bandied around by many, the action never takes place outside the seemingly isolated Elemental Countries) might instead Take a Third Option, which would be to destroy the weapon he wanted to create so that no one could use it. This is never actually discussed in the series.

• There's also Mewtwo from Pokémon: The First Movie. Enraged by humanity using Pokémon as tools and disgusted by the acceptance of this by the Pokémon, he sought to remake the world by exterminating everyone and replacing them with clones. This way, he thought, Pokémon would have the freedom they deserve.
  • Mewtwo didn't bother asking Pokémon just why they accepted humans as masters. It may seem cheesy, but friendship and trust are what make the Pokémon world even work. Just don't expect fanfiction to acknowledge this.
  • Uh, dude? Mewtwo hated the fact that CLONES were being mistreated, not just Pokémon in general. In fact, the first movie (at least, the original Japanese version) states that Mewtwo wanted to wage war not only against humanity, but against ALL natural-born life in general. Contrast that with Mew, who feels that clones (including Mewtwo) are inferior and must be destroyed.

• Many of the "villains" in Mahou Sensei Negima!, but especially Fate, who claims to be trying to save the inhabitants of the Magic World by erasing it from existence. Kurt Godel would probably count too, if we can ever confirm his ultimate goal, though he also claims to be trying to save the world by keeping Fate from destroying it.
  • Turns out, they both have very similar plans. The magical world's running out of energy, and when it goes, most of its 1.2 billion inhabitants will vanish, with 67 million being dumped onto an empty, airless Mars. Kurt wants to evacuate those 67 million before it's too late to save those that can be saved, whereas Fate realizes that it isn't fair to those that can't be evacuated, and Earth can't deal with 67 million refugees - so he'll just kidnap everyone and send them to a pocket dimension that is suspiciously afterlife-like.
    • The latter is kind of hilarious, when you stop to think about it. As of the most recent chapter, it seems like the Final Battle will boil down to who can save the world better.
  • Fate and his band also make a point of not harming anyone from Earth, except when Fate notices that Mahora will be collateral damage. But by that time, he has switched to full-on Blood Knight and no longer cares about anything else.

(One of these bullet points seems to violate Examples Are Not Recent)

I smell a natterbox in Beauty and the Beast (2017):

• Alternative Character Interpretation:
  • Is Gaston a loathsome man in every single way? Or is he a Designated Villain? Some people think that Gaston went out of his way to give Belle flowers, and comfort her after the villagers harassed her, only to get rejected (of course this implies that she somehow had no right to reject him since he was acting nice to her?). Also they think that Gaston, in offering to help Maurice rescue Belle, is more heroic and think that Maurice is wrong in denying Gaston his blessing. On the other hand, some people think that all the "good" things he does for Belle and Maurice are done to make himself look good to them and not out of pure altruism, and that he sees Belle as nothing more than a prize to be won. Also before Maurice rejects Gaston, the latter threatens to feed the former to wolves after revealing his true intentions in marrying Belle, giving Maurice more justification to reject Gaston.
    • It doesn't help that, when you compare him to his animated counterpart, Gaston doesn't show enough mean traits. He doesn't toss Belle's books in the mud. He doesn't make fun of her father. He confesses to Lefou that his life feels empty after the war and that he's drawn to Belle because she's different. He at least went with Maurice to find Belle (even if it's just to get permission for her hand in marriage) and became irritated when Maurice couldn't figure out which path leads to the castle whereas animated Gaston just threw him out of the tavern. He doesn't try to barge into Belle's house demanding her to marry him. Live action Gaston is more of a buffoon than a jerk. Belle didn't have to accept his marriage proposal but couldn't she have been a little kinder to him like her animated counterpart?
    • Although to give Belle her due, she isn't being mean to him; she is just being honest and firm with her feelings, and is also being realistic about the whole marriage ordeal. What's wrong with being honest and firm? She also said that they can never make each other happy due to their different personalities and the way they live their lives (i.e. Belle's independence and love of books vs. Gaston's dependence and love of fighting and war).
    • In the Novel, where you can see into the character's thoughts, Gaston becomes much more brutish, with Lefou, who knows him best, especially musing on how Gaston can become very dangerous when he doesn't get what he wants.

edited 5th Jan '18 2:37:11 PM by Albert3105

Yeah, the extra bullet paragraphs not only point that example towards a Wall of Text, but that looks like a genuine conversation is going on on a YMMV page. I say strip those second-level bullets.

edited 6th Jan '18 7:24:33 PM by jameygamer

Definitely zap the paragraph that starts with the words "Uh, Dude". That's a response and it borders a bit on rudeness.

For the record, that entire thing is tacked on to a "root" example, so I think it's misindented as well. Here's the whole Pokemon thread on that page:

• Elite Four Lance in Pokémon Special. He views humans as completely incompatible with Pokémon, so he plans to commit genocide against the human race so that Pokémon can live in peace and the world can return to its natural glory.
  • Maxie and Archie from the R/S arc had the same ambition in the manga as they did in the games. Corruption by the Red and Blue Orbs drove them Bugfuck insane before all was said and done.
  • There's also Mewtwo from Pokémon: The First Movie. Enraged by humanity using Pokémon as tools and disgusted by the acceptance of this by the Pokémon, he sought to remake the world by exterminating everyone and replacing them with clones. This way, he thought, Pokémon would have the freedom they deserve.
    • Mewtwo didn't bother asking Pokémon just why they accepted humans as masters. It may seem cheesy, but friendship and trust are what make the Pokémon world even work. Just don't expect fanfiction to acknowledge this.
    • Uh, dude? Mewtwo hated the fact that CLONES were being mistreated, not just Pokémon in general. In fact, the first movie (at least, the original Japanese version) states that Mewtwo wanted to wage war not only against humanity, but against ALL natural-born life in general. Contrast that with Mew, who feels that clones (including Mewtwo) are inferior and must be destroyed.
  • Marcus in Pokémon: Arceus and the Jewel of Life wanted to preserve Miichina Town, something he believed would result in it reverting to a wasteland if the Jewel of Life was returned to Arceus. However, he ended up brainwashing Damos and forcing him to betray Arceus, and it was implied that he did the exact same to the other Pokémon.
  • Damon, the Big Bad of Pokémon: The Movie Black/White, wanted to restore his civilization by reviving one of the two legendary Pokémon (which one depends on which movie is viewed).

I zapped the third-level bullets under Mewtwo.

edited 15th Jan '18 10:08:37 PM by jameygamer

Also, now reporting this from the Trivia page of Batman Begins:

• Underage Casting: Rachel Dawes is an assistant district attorney despite her actress Katie Holmes being 26 years old and looking to be about 23. She should still be in law school by all accounts. Aside from that, she was romantically involved with Christian Bale who is older by a decent amount.
  • To top this, according to the original script Rachel is supposed to be some two or three years older than Bruce Wayne, to justify her being an intern at the DA office when he's still an undergrad. In real life, Bale is some five years older than Katie Holmes.
  • If Rachel had gone to law school straight out of college, she'd have graduated at 24 or 25. The only thing unlikely given her youth and inexperience is that she'd be handling cases—especially major, high-profile ones like Falcone—on her own, but she'd still be able to work in the DA's office. It's not as much a stretch as other examples.

Zap away the "law school straight out of college" Justifying Edit.

edited 7th Jan '18 7:09:57 PM by Albert3105

Zap the last line from the first bullet point too while you're at it. She's only four years younger, well within proper Age-Gap Algebra.

Eh, I would zap as an exaggeration, but it's not natter.

edited 8th Jan '18 9:12:03 AM by Albert3105

I zapped the "should still be in law school" sentence on Trivia.Batman Begins. Here's where that example is now:

• Underage Casting: Rachel Dawes is an assistant district attorney despite her actress Katie Holmes being 26 years old and looking to be about 23.
  • To top this, according to the original script Rachel is supposed to be some two or three years older than Bruce Wayne, to justify her being an intern at the DA office when he's still an undergrad. In real life, Bale is some five years older than Katie Holmes.
  • In The Dark Knight, the role of Rachel is recast with Maggie Gyllenhaal who appears only slightly older than Holmes (indeed, she is a year older). In that film, she was still the assistant DA in a love triangle between Bale's Bruce Wayne and the even older Aaron Eckhart's Harvey Dent.

The first second-level bullet still looks like a conversation to me.

edited 15th Jan '18 10:07:29 PM by jameygamer

Not to mention that "original script" is irrelevant for the purposes of the trope. That would be What Could Have Been material at best (and I'm not sure on even that).

All your safe space are belong to Trump

The first second-level bullet as written sounds like conversation, but can be rewritten and incorporated into the top-level example (if we decide that it's worthy of keeping).

The second second-level bullet is about a different work, isn't it? In that case, it doesn't belong there at all.

edited 16th Jan '18 7:46:31 AM by GnomeTitan

I'm just going to zap both sub-bullets. Is that ok?

There's this example for Ernesto de la Cruz on Coco:

• Fate Worse than Death: After Ernesto is exposed as a fraud, he'll spend the rest of his life in the Afterlife shunned and alone, unable to cross to the land of the living (since it's unlikely people will still put up ofrendas for him after what happened). His only chance of getting out of that situation is when people will actually forget about him and he dies for good. But according to Lee Unkrich, he's still going to be remembered for his movies and for his stealing Hector's songs, so he can't even go through a final death. So he has nothing to live for in a world where everyone now hates him and he can't even be killed permanently. What's worse, they hate him so much that they probably won't even rescue him from under that bell, so he's stuck underneath it for who knows how long! It goes from Asshole Victim to an And I Must Scream situation pretty quickly. Quite a grim outcome for a formerly beloved character.

Zap the last three sentences of bloat, at the very least.

I will soon.

Right now, we have a Natter filled page in the form of Murphy Brown's YMMV tab. I posted that one in Ask The Tropers because there was also a blatant Take That! aimed at Dan Quayle on the page.

This is what I changed:

• Vindicated by History/Take That!: After January 20, 1993, Murphy Brown was still on the air, and Dan Quayle was out of a job.
  • Not quite. Nowadays almost no one remembers the show or talks about it the way they do about its predecessor.

I zapped the second bullet and the Take That! pothole after Berrenta gave me the go-ahead.

edited 25th Jan '18 12:37:54 AM by jameygamer