During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I think Ravok recently divided them up between himself, Lighty and Scraggle.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Happy B-Day Ham!
"No running in the halls!"
@futuremoviewriter Wait... if Blumhouse has a shared universe, Freaky would, theoretically, share a universe with Michael Myers?
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Gentle Laborer
Happy birthday!
- Dr. Elliott Emerson, the merciless director of Site-13 in an Alternate Universe, is the man responsible for SCP-1730. Once an unpopular but ambitious member of Jack Bright's research team, Emerson is suspected to have framed him for the murder of a co-worker to get his promotion. As a Professional Butt-Kisser of the Foundation/Coalition union, Emerson dehumanized his own staff and ran Site-13 as his own "death camp" for fifteen years. Emerson experimented on every anomalous being that he could get his hands on; performing "invasive testing" on both animals and humans before going for vivisections; using the incinerator for "everything" or dumping the countless victims into a "body pit"; and eventually ordering the full-scale termination of the entire humanoid wing, his cruelty disgusting even this universe's version of Bobble the Clown himself. Deciding that he would use the Thresher and leave the containment breach for another universe to handle rather than face the consequences, Emerson pulled a gun on his own friend and then activated the device himself, trapping everyone before they could even escape the facility. In Bobble's own words, Emerson was ultimately a sadist who got his jollies off watching pain, horror, and death.
- Otari "Zver" Iosava, the criminal behind SCP-2408, is the leader of The Hunter's Black Lodge, a Neo-Sarkic sect that also doubles as The Mafiya. Willing to do anything as long as it is profitable, Zver is involved in a variety of crimes, including organ harvesting, Human Trafficking and even selling SCP-610 as a bioweapon. A front for the Black Lodge is the Red Lanterns, a popular nightclub where women are forced into prostitution and some of the workers are carnivorous nymphs who feast on their clients. Using his brother's brain-dead but still-living body extract fluids from him, Zver produces and distributes hyper-addictive drugs, which causes an epidemic in Russia and mutates its users. Initiating recruits with an orgy of violence to "cull the pussies", Zver also hosts Gladiator Games for the enjoyment of influential followers of Sarkicism. Working with a Foundation spy posing as a hitman, Zver orders the agent to visit the wife and daughter of a man in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, telling him not to kill them, but to leave "the sorts of scars that'll never heal" as an example. Even other followers of Sarkicism are not safe from him, as Zver was not above butchering twelve of his Proto-Sarkic associates.
- Dr. Madison Craggs, the jovial scientist behind all SCP-3033, is a Psycho for Hire with a severe case of Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. A bioweapons researcher who defected to the Soviets during the Cold War before joining the Chaos Insurgency, Madison proposed the idea of the Mike units to the Delta Command. Experimenting on hundreds of people with live brain surgeries to convert them into Super Soldiers to act as sleeper agents and vivisecting others, Madison left some of her victims either dead, comatose, mentally challenged or paralyzed. Madison's Mikes are made to commit atrocities in name of the Chaos Insurgency while they are aware of everything. When given a target by the Delta Command, Madison sends her Mikes to kill hundreds of people at a GRU site simply because she wanted to get revenge on a man for having supposedly keyed her car in the past, executing the wounded Mikes and ordering to slaughter more people, even a pregnant woman. After Madison was finally captured, she betrayed the Insurgency to live comfortably under Foundation custody, surviving an assassination attempt and vivisecting a desperate Mike for fun.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 15th 2020 at 11:17:28 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Dawson and Vance.
Happy Birthday Ham!
And speaking of SCP's, I may have a couple of cuts from goin over the page today if no one minds.
1. SCP - 352 aka, Baba Yaga (not to be mistaken for the Boogeyman or the one you sent to kill the fucking Boogeyman). I’d say that she’s a cut, since there really isn’t a narrative to go with her entry aside from how she was captured by the Foundation. It boils down to these two paragraphs.
SCP-352 was recovered in southern Russia, near the town of █████████████████. Reports of an “Enchanted Forest” and a witch who had caused several deaths were initially ignored, until reports of the witch being found and captured began to surface. When Foundation agents responded, the town was found deserted. Several bodies were found in varying states of decomposition, and blood trails appeared to show many more bodies being dragged into the “enchanted forest".
Recovery teams were dispatched and captured SCP-352, but suffered heavy casualties due to SCP-352's attack and exposure to the enzyme. A large amount of “hair” was recovered as well, and is believed to be the cause of many exposure incidents, with contact being attributed to spider webs or an Agent’s own hair and not reported until hallucinations manifested.
The rest of her article is just a description of her and her behavior. No dialogue, no characterization of her victims, her captors. Nothing. Seriously, Builder bear has more story to it than this article.
2. SCP 1790 aka Layla. I brought her up for a proper EP back in 2019, but looking back now, I still lean to cutting her. Really, all her article is a description of her and her history; once again, very little dialogue, no characterization of others people (who aren’t her reincarnations); none for any of her victims; that sort of drill.
Aside from that, as with my original concern, she is implied to be the mythological Layla and is stated to be trying to resurrect her deceased lover Majnun with vague motives for doing so - for those who don’t know, this was the Romeo and Juliet of sorts of ancient Arabic folklore. The extent of how much of the story is true in this version isn’t elaborated, but is vague enough for me to have an issue with.
This is how much of the story the article really elaborates on; The name "Majnun" referenced by SCP-1790 has been identified by Foundation historians as referring to Qays ibn al-Mulawwah, a figure from Persian folklore who was involved in a forbidden romance with Layla, the daughter of a man who refused to allow their marriage. The degree to which SCP-1790 identifies with this figure has not been determined.
Edited by Beast on Dec 15th 2020 at 7:04:42 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
to the rewrites for Dr. Elliot Emerson, Otari "Zver" Iosava, and Dr. Madison Craggs.
@HamburgerTime: Happy birthday.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Looking over the other SCP keepers, it does seem there is less story behind those proposals, whereas the others at least get some other forms of characterization like short stories and interviews. I'll go with a tentative cut to SCP-352/Baba Yaga and SCP-1790/Layla, sinctheir entries don't have too much of a substantive plot, but if there are any counterarguments to this, I'm open to changing my vote.
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 15th 2020 at 7:18:15 AM
I'll give a definite cut to Layla.
EDIT: on thinking, nix Baba Yaga. Had there been more stories like the Old Man, then she would keep.
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 15th 2020 at 7:22:18 AM
Lizzid people!
Sure, I agree with the cuts.
Happy birthday HT!
Don't think I was around for prior SCP purges but I'll say cut both regardless.
I'd say there isn't much else to purge, as it isn't as cut and dry as the Creepypasta page.
A lot of the articles gives some characterization to those involved, or are expanded upon in tales that feature the SCP's - like the Old Man, Scarlet King or Ambassador of Alagada.
The SCP Foundation, if not featuring some kind of storyline in the articles themselves, expand these characters in side stories. My focus so far was on the "smaller fishes" that aren't as expanded as what I describe.
For example, Polymorphic Humanoid, not only goes over her murderous history leading up to her capture, but we also get characterization in the Team that captured her by interview log; same with one of the Yule Man's victims whom the Foundation tries to save.
We also got the titular serial killer in The Dollmaker's Kit is described as being arrested in the article, is characterized in an interview log before being subjected to "tests" by his anomalous weapon - the rest of said article consist of attempts to study said weapon and learn what makes it anomalous.
Edited by Beast on Dec 15th 2020 at 7:39:45 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Woagh
I'm alright with the cuts. Yaga was one I didn't consider at first, I'll admit, but hey, doubt anyone's upset with it.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
I Agree with the cuts
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Baba Yaga and Layla
Well, we can't discuss Ultraman Z yet because it's a really new series (and the potential candidate, Cerebro? At the time of writing, he's NOT even defeated yet). So maybe that show can be discussed... after Christmas? I mean, it's be cool if the first CM introduced in 2021 is from the Ultra Series. Yes, really.
But since discussions about a new show is off-the-topic, here's a 50-year-old Shaw Brothers martial arts flick.
The Film of the Day
The Sword of Swords is a 1968 Wuxia film from Shaw Brothers, starring Jimmy Wang Yu and Tien Feng. The plot revolves around the struggle of ownership of an all-powerful sword, and the trials and suffering one man must brave as the sword's keeper. The titular weapon, the legendary Sword of Swords, is reputed to be made of the finest green steel, coated with enchanted jade, with an ornate dragon-headed handle. Forged over a period of ten years, it is an invincible weapon that wins battles after battles during the Yuan Dynasty, until it's wielder, General Meng who defended China from the Mongols, eventually died of old age.
Passed down multiple generations, in the Ming Dynasty centuries later, the Sword is eventually owned by Master Mui, a teacher of a martial arts academy. Now at old age, deciding to retire, Master Mui intends to have the Sword inherited to one out of two of his best pupils, Lin Jen-shiau and Fang Shi-shiung.
Fang Shi-shiung (Tien Feng, an actor who is pretty much Jimmy Wang-yu's Arch-Enemy - they played on the opposing sides for at least 40 movies in their heyday, I'm serious) is Master Mui's first student and one of his best, but his arrogance, cruelty and Blood Knight tendencies gives his teacher a moment of pause as to whether he is worthy of the sword.
Lin Jen-shiau (Jimmy) is one of the school's youngest recruits, who was the adopted son of Master Mui due to losing his family in a raid years ago. But despite his humble beginnings, Lin rise quickly through the ranks ot students, is one of the school's best fighters, but is known for being kind, humble, soft-spoken. Lin is also the lover of Bai-Feng (literally "White Phoenix") Master Mui's daughter, having grown up together, since she sees him as a kind, gentle soul despite being an expert fighter.
Eventually, a duel will be held to decide which men should claim the sword.
So, About Fang Shi-shiung...
So, as mentioned, Lin Jen-shiau and Fang Shi-shiung are students training under Master Mui, the Keeper of the powerful Sword of Swords. Fang at the start of the film however is a jerkass who is repeatedly rude to his master, fellow students, and delights in picking on his younger brother-in-arms, Lin, bullying him into chores, poking fun of Lin being an adopted orphan without parents, getting Lin into trouble and being a douchebag in general, which Lin swallows due to being humble and a pacifist. But as the film goes on, Fang's true colours are slowly revealed.
As it turns out, Fang is actually working under the payroll of a local bandit warlord; he will be paid handsomely if he earned Master Bai's trust and claim the Sword of Swords for himself, which he will then deliver to the warlord for a massive fee. Learning that Lin intends to retire into being a farmer, Fang actually manipulates Lin into going soft and losing the duel on purpose.
The following day's duel ends with Fang defeating Lin, knocking Lin's sword out of his hands. However, Master Mui sees through the ruse, pointing out that Lin deliberately drops his sword in the battle. Fang decides to admit defeat, only to suddenly pull an I Surrender, Suckers by snatching the Sword of Swords from Master Mui and hold his own master as hostage. But as it turns out Master Mui had long suspected Fang to be a traitor, and the powerful sword turns out to be a fake. Fang and Lin ends up battling each other through the school grounds, with Fang getting defeated, but due to Lin being unable to finish off his former blood brother (even though Fang has always been an asshole towards Lin), Fang pulls a Screw This, I'm Outta Here and bails.
A Time Skip follows suit, over an unspecified amount of time (implied to be at least two years). Lin Jen-shiau and his lover Bai Feng, now wife, had a baby, and they still remains in Master Mui's school, teaching students on swordplay and martial arts. But of course we're not seeing the last of scumbag Fang...
Fang would return later with a group of henchmen, infiltrating the school to steal the sword, now under Lin's possession. Master Mui ends up being killed, and Fang personally killing Mui's wife and Bai-feng's mother in front of Bai-feng, gloating the whole time. Lin escapes with the Sword, barely managing to flee with his baby as the entire school burns down around him; Fang then had Bai-feng taken back to his fortress, ordering her to be abused by his mooks over the course of an entire night (some Implied Rape happens) before letting her go, bloody and battered and crying her eyes out, to Lin.
A sobbing Bai-feng tells her husband what a Monster their former schoolmate Fang had become; Lin, finally angered enough to leave his pacifism aside, decide to march to Fang's hideout to confront Fang. But of course Fang had anticipated Lin coming back, having his minions lay out an ambush. That ambush fails, and as Lin kills his way through Fang's minions, Fang managed to track down the whereabouts to his former schoolmate's home.
It's late autumn and near winter when Fang and his goons tracked down Lin near his home. Lin now lives with his wife Bai-feng and his baby near a bamboo forest, currently covered in snow. Fang's mooks had Lin's home ripped apart after locating it. Lin managed to save his baby, but not his wife; as Bai Feng gets kidnapped, Fang inflicts a near-mortal injury on Lin, stabbing both of Lin's eyes with darts and leaves Lin and his baby in the middle of the snowy forest, heavily injured and impaled on a sharp bamboo pole, barely alive with his baby at his side, with Fang doing a Kick the Dog telling Lin he will let him die with his baby in the cold while he have "fun with his wife".
Lin, against all odds, managed to un-impale himself from the bamboo pole and carry his baby. Making his way to a nearby village, a kindly old woman rescues Lin and his baby, and he gets nursed to health; deciding to leave his life as a warrior behind, Lin becomes a weaver for a living in the village.
Back to Fang and the Sword; the bandit warlord praises Fang for obtaining the powerful Sword, but Fang, in the last moment, pulls a Klingon Promotion by killing his boss, saying that he owns the all-powerful sword, he is now taking over. Before having Lin's kidnapped wife, Bai-feng, locked as his personal concubine. Fang's excessive rise to power ultimately disgusts his aide, who decide to help Bai Feng escape; but Fang catches them and kills his aide as Bai feng watches.
When news of a blind basket-weaver with a baby from a nearby village spread to Fang, he immediately suspects that Lin had somehow survived. Sending a legion of Elite Mooks to the village to "kill every blind man they can find", those mooks managed to locate Lin. But they underestimated the blind hero, and Lin effortlessly kills all but one of them, who pleads for his life and reveals to Lin, the news that Lin's wife Bai-feng is still alive. Lin decide to let the surviving mook return to Fang.
Lin ultimately confronts his former mentor, Fang, in a public square at the edge of a village. Fang is flanked plenty of mooks and Elite Mooks, but Lin kills each and every single one of them. In the thick of battle, Fang suddenly reveals his trump card: Bai-feng, and numerous innocent villagers, had been kidnapped by his minions, all of them bound and gagged, with Fang goading Lin into attacking while his minions hold those innocents as meatshields. The blind Lin goes into a killing spree, executing everyone except for Bai-feng, who managed to break free of her gag and shout a warning to her husband. Horrified, Lin touches the face of someone he just killed, realizing his victim is a little girl he befriended during his time in the village. At which point Lin ultimately unleashes his absolute killing mode and slaughters every remaining mook until Fang remains.
Deciding to go the extra mile as a douchebag, Fang had Lin's baby thrown to his direction, intending to trick Lin into slicing up his own child, but this time Lin grabs the baby in mid-air. Fang then draws his weapon, the Sword of Swords; despite having the advantage of a superior weapon and being not blind, Fang ultimately loses the duel, where Lin stabs Fang through the face and then the gut, killing him.
Any Mitigating Factors for This Guy?
Nope, Fang is portrayed as a power-hungry, ruthless, indescribably cruel man who cares only for himself. From his first scene he starts off as a douchebag, and then Jumping Off the Slippery Slope when he sees a chance of having ultimate power for himself, before crossing the Moral Event Horizon having an entire village of innocent people kidnapped, tricking the blind Lin into killing his friends.
Granted, he had Bai-feng captured alive and held prisoner for months, instead of killing her... as a form of Unsportsmanlike Gloating, for her to learn that he is the one in power, not Lin.
And the Heinousness Standard?
The only other baddie is the unnamed bandit warlord Fang is working for, but while he had his share of nasty moments, he's pretty one-dimensional and gets betrayed and killed without any fanfare.
Of all the Jimmy Wang yu movies, Fang Shih-hsiung sticks out as the worst of the bunch, crossing one Moral Event Horizon after another. So, yeah, he's pretty bad.
Should we count Fang Shih-hsiung then?
I think he's qualified.
Edited by RobertTYL on Dec 15th 2020 at 11:23:46 PM
Goku Black
fang
Fang. Cut Baba Yaga and Layla.
Happy birthday, HamburgerTime.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Fang.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Fang. Cut Baba Yaga and Layla.
EDIT: Also, belated happy birthday to HamburgerTime!
Edited by falcontalons on Dec 16th 2020 at 7:20:49 AM
Fang
Speaking of which, do we have any other CM versions of Baba Yaga? (PM me to avoid bogging down the thread)
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 16th 2020 at 5:15:41 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Fang.
There’s a link on the Administrivia page. That’s how I got here.
Does anyone care to answer this