Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yes to Kirio, Solomon and Driscoll. Nay to the House duo.

Image Pickin' thread on Monster.Western Animation here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1584644733034058400

To cross-post, I'm in favor of splitting off animated film examples to their own page for consistency with the rest of the wiki.

Tbh that's the only page where films and series are in the Same section. Would be good to split for consistency.

What say you all?

Edited by miraculous on Mar 20th 2020 at 7:25:42 AM

@N

You don't have to regret or "wish you'd known better" on anything, you made a proposal that some are making arguments against. That's standard for this....

And regardless of if they go up, they do not have the same issues as modie(being all talk)

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 20th 2020 at 4:35:06 AM

I would request that we keep the Anime film examples at Anime & Manga but shift the Western Animation films as well as films from the non-Western, non-Anime films at Other Media to the Animated Film page if it goes up.

I wouldn't be TERRIBLY opposed to splitting, but holy hell, the indexing of the subpages will be a nightmare.

• Bionicle: Series?? (EDIT: Yes. Series.)
• Conan: Series.
• DC Animation; Disney: Both.
• Ghostbusters: Series.
• GI Joe: Both? The Movie's the only non-series one, so who knows. (EDIT: Apparently it was direct-to-video, so I THINK we're okay with just series.)
• Marvel Animation: Both.
• Masters: Series.
• Max Steel: Series (the films are made for TV, so that's fine).
• Star Wars and TMNT: Series (I think?).
• Transformers: Series? How many animated films? I know there's the 1986 one. (EDIT: Probably just to series, though it'll requiring being a little creative.)
• Voltron: Series.

I second that.

Edited by ACW on Mar 20th 2020 at 10:47:36 AM

I'm also fine with separating animated films and tv shows into two different pages.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 20th 2020 at 9:48:51 AM

@ACW Also, Reptilla and Hunter Stag III from the King Kong tree are from films as well. What say your decision?

Okay, I've done a bit more research:

• All will go to series.
• DC Animation, Disney, & Marvel Animation will ALSO go to films.
• GI Joe and Transformers will be tricky.

Shit, that's a good point. I don't know.

Edited by ACW on Mar 20th 2020 at 10:54:49 AM

Works with franchise pages: I'm happy to just link to works with their own pages.

I only meant to cover Western Animated Film in this. Anime and other animation are not affected.

I think we can include other non-anime films as well, isn’t that what the Animated Films namespace also covers?

BTW, I've created Morseverse.

EDIT: Maybe this weekend I'll try and create a Xeno page so the CM page isn't isolated.

Edited by ACW on Mar 20th 2020 at 11:39:00 AM

I support the splitting.

Well, here is a candidate I am more confident in, though from a work I am less fond of.

What's the work?

1BeatHeart is the sequel to 1bit Heart (which I discussed on this Magnificent Bastard EP). In it, Misane Mikoto and Yoshi Nanase, detectives in training, go take a vacation at a hotel. But it turns into a Busman's Holiday as a Serial Killer is in the hotel...

Who is Shinobu Kasuga? What does he do?

Shinobu Kasuga seems to just be the hotel gardener who works on floor 4. A mild-mannered and gentle man, he is liked for being very sweet and friendly. Except he is actually the Serial Killer- in fact, Shinobu is just an alias he uses, his real name unknown.

He is unique in that he likes to manipulate other people into killing for him, rather than kill himself. Thanks to his Compelling Voice, he can influence the thoughts of others and have them do what he wants. In the bonus scenario of 1bit Heart, he boards the ship that Misane and Nanase are on. Yoh, one of the cooks, is angry at a magazine interviewer working on the ship because said person had interviewed a friend of Yoh's and been really mean about it. Shinobu manipulates Yoh into murdering the worker via poisoned doorknob, then leaves the detectives to catch Yoh.

At the actual hotel, Shinobu next sets his sights on a little girl, Merue Ujou. She was Happily Adopted by Shitsuna Ujou, and lived a good life with her unnamed sister. But one day, Merue's sister died in a car crash, and Shitsuna tells Merue that You Should Have Died Instead. Shinobu gets her to murder her mother by using a rotating room to hang her. His third helper is Namoto, a member of a trio of famous pianists from the Blue Sun College of Music who recently had a falling out with his friend and fellow member, Sataka Fushimi. He gets Namoto to poison Sataka by giving him a mix of cold medicine and beer. In all three cases, he makes sure to delete their memories of him so the crime cannot be traced back to him.

Once those three are caught, Shinobu goes for his masterstroke. He plans to create a case so baffling that Misane will be unable to solve it, and break her confidence to make her more vulnerable. He puts listening devices on the three cats belonging to the hotel owner’s son, and lets them loose. Through this, he is able to find several people throughout the hotel who have issues in life, some of whom are suicidal. Shinobu goes to them and, with his Compelling Voice, convinces them to kill themselves in a variety of ways, including stabbing, hanging, and self-strangulation. The idea is to create several locked-room mysteries that Misane cannot solve. It works like a charm, and he uses his voice to turn Misane against Nanase, nearly getting her to kill him. But he breaks her out of it, and they go to confront him.

So he makes them pass out and runs away like a coward. AND THAT'S IT. ROLL CREDITS.

See why I said that I was not too fond of this game? It Is fun, but the anticlimactic non-ending kinda ruins it. There is a bonus scene where the duo meet up with their old friend Izuchi, but other than the possible implication that Izuchi is Shinobu’s true identity, nothing. I much prefer the original, which actually has a satisfying ending.

Heinousness?

Big Bad, sets it. None of the villains in 1bit Heart actually kill anyone or do anything more than possess people and cause trouble. Mikado does go for an Assimilation Plot, but he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who is trying to unite humanity in peace. The bigshots who, in the Bad Future, enslaved humanity never actually appear, nor do we see the Bad Future. In contrast, Shinobu is a Serial Killer with a body count at least in the double digits. We see four of their victims, which sets a pattern.

Mitigating Qualities?

He is very nice and friendly to everyone, almost to the point of being Affably Evil, but upon reflection, I am fairly certain he is only being nice to manipulate people and decrease suspicion of himself. The person he is nicest to is Misane, who he seeks to make into his pawn. As for his motive, when confronted in the end, he basically says that he has no motive. Given that he says he loves mystery novels, I think he wanted to recreate mysteries for entertainment? At any rate, he is not a Generic Doomsday Villain, as he is a Faux Affably Evil Soft-Spoken Sadist. I would say he is like Iago in that regard, who also denies having any real motive when caught.

Verdict?

I say he is an easy keep. I was also wondering whether he could be a Magnificent Bastard, but I wonder if he is too vile or not. What do you think?

Edited by MasterN on Mar 20th 2020 at 8:49:06 AM

to Shinobu.

Sure to him.

to Shinobu

to Shinobu Kasuga.

I'll try to get my last few Endeavour candidates up soon. I've also got a few quotes that might work for the page.

@ACW I recall that someone came here and asked why Xeno has a page when Xenogears and Xenoblade don’t really have much connection (They don’t even have the same publisher) but no one seemed to notice.

A Morseverse page was not what I expected (I expected the page to be created at Inspector Morse, then we add (includes Lewis and Endeavour)) but I’m fine with it.

Eh, it wasn't much work to create either. I think it's especially fine, for Xeno at least, since there's a wikipedia article for the series.

We COULD maybe use a better header though:

The Xeno series, from Xenogears onward, is replete with many horrific antagonists.

Yes to Shinobu.

Shinobu

Btw I think I have a new keeper. A siren of all things. Well do the ep soon

to Shinobu.

Yes to Baal as well.

Edited by falcontalons on Mar 20th 2020 at 9:11:56 AM

Alright, so two weeks had passed.

What is the work?

Welcome to Demon School! Iruma-kun is a manga series that had been adapted into an anime series back in 2019. The series revolves around 14-year-old Iruma Suzuki who was sold to a demon by his neglectful parents. Getting "adopted" by the principal of the Babyls School for Demons Sullivan, Iruma befriends two demons Alice Asmodeus and Clara Valac, but he also must try to keep him being a human a secret from the others.

The series starts out as somewhat lighthearted, but the anime adapts the Battora (Battler) arc of the manga. Essentially, a Battora is synonymous to a club where the school would have an event where the students' families would go to see them and it was a three day event.

Iruma and his friends meet a demon named Amy Kirio whose Battora party was the Magical Tools Research Division. Unbeknownst to them, Kirio was really a terrorist who was enlisted to destroy the school with a magical bomb. As far as Kirio goes...he's a wait and see. Freudian Excuse-wise...he does have one. Kirio came from a family who were renown for their magical barrier abilities. Kirio, however, was born with little magic which ostracized him from the rest of his family, and he was sent to the Demon Children Garden facility to get assistance for it. When he was there, he was bullied by the other kids but befriended a demon girl who trusted him with her grandmother's earring. Unfortunately, the bullies tossed the earring away, and Kirio manages to catch it with one of his barriers...until it crumbled and it fell into the lake never to be seen again.

It would be a valid FE...if not for the fact that Kirio became a sadomasochist who got off on the despair of his former friend (really, is despairosexual a word). From there, he wanted to inflict harm on other demons so he could enjoy their despair. With the reason as to why he is a wait-and-see, it mostly has to do with his relationship with Iruma. At first, he liked him because he sensed a common ground with him, but he had full knowledge that Iruma would be in the school by the time he blew the school up not seeming to care. Later on when Iruma foils his plan, he saves Iruma from falling with one of his barriers. But I kind of lean towards it being not redeeming because at the end of it all what he really wanted out of Iruma was seeing his face wrecked in despair from losing everyone and everything he held dear only to become perplexed that he couldn't break him. With him asking Sullivan to tell Iruma to beware other wicked demons like himself, it looks as though it falls under the latter interpretation.

As for Kirio's backer, however...

Who is he?

Baal is a powerful demon with thunder and lightning abilities who is part of an elite group of demons known as the Thirteen Crowns of the Netherworld. He was also the original founder of the Magical Tools Research Division. Disturbed by the current state of the Netherworld, Baal conspires to destroy Babyls to revert everything back to its days of violence and bloodshed.

What has he done?

Baal teams up with Kirio to destroy the school personally saying that "the more casualties the better." The scheme is to destroy the school after gathering a large chunk of the student body into the Central Plaza where the Bell of Ceremonies is situated. Kirio would trap them in the school with his barriers before blowing them all up: this would cause the families of the students to suffer despair and revert back to their primal states of mind.

Baal begins the plan by orchestrating for the removal of the principal Sullivan by incriminating him of having contact with humans in the human realm. Baal had also trained Kirio by allowing him to receive the knowledge on potions and the like for the plan. With 80% of the student body in the Central Plaza, Kirio tries to set off the explosions only to be stopped by Iruma who uses up all the magic in the ring Sullivan gave him to counteract Kirio's magic.

When Kirio is arrested by the school's faculty, he willfully takes credit for the terrorist attack seemingly taking Baal off the hook. From there, he disappears for the rest of the first season and hadn't reappeared since.

Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?

No. Him wanting to take the Netherworld back to its days of primal savagery isn't depicted as a good thing; it is made clear that Baal wants to do this because he was bored with the world's current state of affairs.

This is something that the manga delves into more, but demons in the setting have an innate Lack of Empathy for demons not related to them. But I would more call it a lack for compassion because demons have loved ones they care about whether it be friends or family. Even the teachers are shown to care for their students' well-being. Kirio covering for Baal seemingly depicts that Kirio cares for Baal or at the least respects him enough to not rat him out.

Baal, however, has no one that he cares about. He finds himself increasingly annoyed with the other members of the Thirteen Crowns; he yells at Kirio on several occasions; his goal of reverting the Netherworld is self-serving, etc. Unless the second season fleshes Baal out more as a character, I'd wager there are no redeeming traits for him.

Heinous standard

Attempted mass murder of an entire school is one thing; having the students killed in front of their grieving families that would drive them insane and back to their primal states is messed up in all meaning of the word.

Conclusion

Leaning towards a keep. Whether he returns in the second season and has redeeming traits we can easily reevaluate him.

Baal. Any reason the manga version doesn't count?

Aimee Joubert and Antonin Bollinger

Waiting until voting for Baal