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Yeah. Demon' souls are like that in that verse. Having twin brothers there is very weird because usually, the stronger brother ends up (for instint) aborbing the body of the other. The Shadow of Satan is weird in that he kept his mind despite it.

Mimiko Mizunuma. Sorry Elfen.

Opinions on Satan's Shadow?

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 26th 2018 at 12:29:02 PM

Ah... It's alright, Think I had a fun proposing the girl. And have to admit that watching the movie is rather torturous given the constant buffering so yeah... Even if she will be voted down in the end, I'm just try at my best to put an effort on my proposals.

I think someone would make a better case with Mimiko much than I'll ever be like that Minister of Science or Charlotte Ermengarde so yeah :/

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 27th 2018 at 12:30:01 AM

I'm pleased that this is gonna go in the same batch with the Venom ones:

• Bad Times at the El Royale: Billy Lee is a sadistic and psychopathic cult leader who seduces abuse victim Rose Summerspring into becoming one of his devoted, but fanatical followers. He instructs her to prove her loyalty by brutally stabbing an innocent couple to death and also has her and another girl in his cult fight and nearly kill each other in exchange for another sexual favor. When Billy Lee shows up at the El Royale to retrieve Rose, he takes her sister Emily, Father Daniel Flynn (really robber Donald "Doc" O’Kelly), singer Darlene Sweet and concierge and former Vietnam sniper Miles Miller all hostage and forces Emily and Miles to play Roulette for their lives, coldly killing Emily when she loses. He also demands Darlene sing to avoid playing and when she does, he puts her at risk anyway, callously claiming that he's "heard much better". After Miles kills Billy Lee, the still brainwashed Rose mortally stabs Miles before she's shot dead herself.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 26th 2018 at 10:37:08 AM

@future: I haven't seen the movie yet, so can't weigh in. I might go see it tomorrow, since I haven't been to the theater in a while and this movie sounds different from the usual stuff I see in theaters.

Abstaining on Mimiko Mizunuma for now.

That's cool.

EDIT: I will agree that no one from Goosebumps 2 counts. Aside from Slappy not doing enough in either movie, he’s not quite taken seriously enough either.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 26th 2018 at 12:21:50 PM

@Kazuya Prota Whoops sorry for not seeing the EP. I'll give Sat Shad a yea I guess...

Man genre busting or weird works sure looks intriguing

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 27th 2018 at 12:33:21 AM

I'll give Billy Lee a . Great film.

fmw, please add to the Drafts.

Satan Shadow

Well, the new content in the Switch version of The World Ends with You turned out to be a giant Sequel Hook, so I can't talk about anything there. However, that doesn't mean I don't want to talk about the rest of the game.

While playing the game, I thought a lot about the current qualifier, Mitsuki Konishi. After looking through the proposal and the entry, I'm moving for her to be cut. In addition to not getting an effortpost (they existed, but weren't yet required), I noticed quite a few major problems with the entry:

1. The story up to her arrival was not lighthearted. It got dark way before she became majorly involved with the plot.

2. She had nothing to do with Rhyme's erasure in the first week, which is something the entry pins on her. Heck, due to how the setting works, she has nothing to do with anything until the third week.

3. She did not imprison Rhyme's soul in a pin. Hanekoma did that so Beat could find a way to save her. The reason she stole it in the third week was because Players have to give up what's most precious to them as an entry fee. While she was way too sadistic about it, the rules Beat to lose the pin.

4. All the rest of the issues with her come from one key issue: heinousness. Cutting out the falsehoods, she's got one murder, being The Starscream, and extreme sadism under her belt. That's it. By contrast, the collateral damage of Minamimoto's actions on Week 2 - when he and Konishi are on the same power level - ends up killing not only Players, but other Reapers, and what he did to cause it is a known capital offense. When I looked through the initial proposal, it claimed that the game doesn't have a high heinous standard. While I somewhat agree with that, that ignores the chaos that Minamimoto causes, and even still, I don't think Konishi passes even the baseline standard.

tl;dr: Konishi isn't heinous enough, she wasn't thoroughly vetted enough, and her entry is riddled with falsehoods. Cut.

You make a good case for a cut. Anyone else who's played the game have any thoughts?

More de-potholes, for World Of Darkness:

• Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines: Andrei the Tzimisce, as Archbishop of the L.A. branch of the Sabbat, takes the Sabbat's ideals of embracing their inner beast and renouncing their humanity to a whole new level. Andrei lives in a house that he has decorated with body parts in order to make it resemble his ancestral estate. The walls are coated with bloodied human flesh, and the furniture is made from bones and organs. Equal parts Evil Sorcerer and Mad Scientist, Andrei uses live people and vampires as materials in his construction of the monstrous abominations that serve as his soldiers. He then tests the killing capacity of these monsters by unleashing them on defenseless mortals, with his ultimate goal being to use them to wage war against the Camarilla. In particular he plans on wiping out the Nosferatu in order to "gouge out the eyes of the Camarilla". Also, should the player not send away their ghoul friend/lover, Heather Poe, then, upon reaching the Sabbat's lair, the player will arrive just in time see Heather brutally murdered by Andrei's goons.
• Promethean: The Created: Most evil Prometheans are motivated by years of torment they have received at the hands of regular mortals. Not so Oleg Wormwood, Ukrainian mobster and would-be bringer of the apocalypse. Created at the time of the Chernobyl disaster, Oleg witnessed the meltdown, and, despite having a relatively good life by Promethean standards, desired to replicate it across the face of the world. Joining the Ukrainian, and then Russian branches of The Mafiya, Oleg killed numerous men—and gave large numbers of prostitutes cancer—in the process of making a name for himself, all while building up the connections and resources he would need to achieve his dream. He has purchased plutonium for terrorist causes, stirred up trouble between India and Pakistan, and otherwise done everything he can to manipulate the world's leaders into creating the nuclear holocaust that he so desperately craves. Emotionally hollow, and incapable of remorse, Oleg has no desire to ever be human, viewing mortals as nothing but tools to aid him in triggering the apocalypse.
• Thomas Salvatore, the head chef and owner of the Epicurean Club, is leader of the Pate de Fois Gras cult. A would-be chef, and gourmand, Salvatore was never able to get his restaurants to work. At least not until he'd visited Papua New Guinea and gained a taste for "long pig". Returning home, Salvatore recruited a gang of equally amoral chefs, purchased Briarwood Farms, and used it to raise his food of choice—human children. Keeping the kids locked in filthy cages, Salvatore and his compatriots force the children to bulk up on food and stimulants, before cutting out their livers and serving them to their patrons, none of whom have a clue what they are eating. Determined that he will be known as one of the world's greatest chefs, Salvatore plans to ride his new-found success all the way to the top—no matter how many children he has to butcher in the process.
• Genius: The Transgression: Walking-Man, Peripatetic Dreamkiller, is the most infamous of the Clockstoppers, and one of the most powerful. Targeting small, isolated communities, Walking-Man uses his Compelling Voice to take control of the town, has mobs eliminate anyone who might object, and then disposes of the town's leaders, taking on that role himself. Forcing people to abandon their modern conveniences, Walking-Man drives the communities he rules farther and farther back in time, finally sending them into the wilderness, unclothed and unarmed, to die, while he searches for his next target. Having thus caused the deaths of communities in Idaho, Nebraska, and Colorado, Walking-Man continues to ply his trade across all three states, preaching his anti-technology gospel to any who are susceptible—although his relationship with Lemuria would indicate his hatred of technology does not go as deep as he might pretend.

Edited by ACW on Oct 26th 2018 at 3:07:34 PM

He does indeed. Cut away.

If nobody objects, I'll do that tomorrow with the other stuff (Andrei's also at the video game page, so that's no issue).

@ACW Consider it drafted.

Sure cut Konishi.

Sure cut, also here's a rewrite for the Spot, anyone can add in any crimes or rewrite some more as they see fit:

• Tales of the Tempest: The unnamed Spot possessing Rommy uses the young Inquisitor's body to capture Leimorneans to use them for magical experiments and harvest their souls. Psychotic and cruel, the Spot—through Rommy—kills for fun and frames its crimes on its own innocent prisoners. Controlling Caius' father, the Spot forces him to fight his own son before it grows bored and kills him in front of Caius. Killing the heroine's parents for no reason other than to entertain itself, the Spot also enjoys twisting the heroes' trust of each other to watch the emotional havoc. A twisted sadist, the Spot killed, tortured and brainwashed for its own sick enjoyment.

Wow, we're over 40; we may be closer to 50 this week (and that's not including Uriel, the Count, the de-potholings, and the D&D stuff).

Shadow

Mimiko and Konishi. However, I would like to hear more about Li-Li.

Same votes and same opinion.

Alright, I've been waiting for this one...my next from Ravenloft. I have several more here, this being possibly the closest the setting has to a Big Bad besides the well known villains, vampire Strahd and lich Azalin Rex (neither of whom qualify as complete monsters despite their evil, Strahd having some shreds of redeeming features, as well as Azalin)...

Now, as you may recall, Ravenloft is a DND gothic horror setting...it takes place in the Demiplane of Dread. The land of Mists, where people are taken and imprisoned by Dark Powers....now, those who commit an act of ultimate evil become a Darklord, ruler of a domain (which is...pretty flexible in definition. Every Darklord is under a curse that denies them what they want most, as long as they refuse to acknowledge their failings (I mean, if they were the type to do that, they would never have become Darklords in the first place)...the Mists are a cheerless place of monsters, ghouls, zombies, werewolves....it sucks to live there. But there is one being there who is a genuine demon...the mysterious man known by one name: The Gentleman Caller.

Who is the Gentleman Caller?

Long ago, an angel who later took the name Isolde hunted a wicked incubus, well known for slaughtering and raping the innocent....after one massacre, the incubus fled Isolde, escaping into the realm of Mists. Isolde, unwilling to let such a monster go, begged her superiors to be allowed to pursue him. They agreed...but in return, Isolde would permanently barred from Heaven. She agreed and plunged into the mists...becoming the mistress of the Carnival, a traveling show where she takes in the lost who need her protection.

Meanwhile, a man began to appear around the land of mists, seeking out women of the Vistani heritage (a sort of Romani expy here)....he seduces them with mind control powers, rapes them and leaves, leaving some to bear his children, who are inevitably demonic, for some dark purpose....while he leaves a trail of murder and mayhem in his wake, delighting at the chaos.

In one incident, Darklord Gabrielle Aderre, an accomplished seductress herself, was greeted by the handsome gentleman and instantly entranced by his gaze, led to her chambers...as the man undressed, she saw a pair of batlike wings appear, and he whispered she would only remember him as a 'gentleman caller.' ...she could remember nothing else of that evening, but became pregnant with her son Malocchio...the mysterious 'Dukkar,' a being of prophecy. Malocchio eventually turned on Gabrielle and removed the mental blocks that the Gentleman Caller placed there...and Gabrielle remembered a rape so unbelievably horrifying and traumatic that she went almost comatose, unable to even function as a result. This is the Caller's MO, btw. A member of Isolde's group, the Carnival, came to the group pregnant with a child later revealed as the Caller's...with a traumatic rape so terrible she is incapable of not reacting violently to advances now. With the fiendish children he sires, the Caller uses them to sow misery and bloodshed, with Malocchio being key to helping the Caller flee the Demiplane of Dread...Malocchio is used by dear old dad to help genocide the Vistani, helping to create a passage to escape, as the Caller wants out there....oh, and this whole mind power thing is only when he bothers. Other women aren't so lucky, and get the full horror of what he does to them if he doesn't consider them important.

Besides that, he uses agents to sow discord and bloodshed throughout the Lands of the Mists, killing tons of people in the way there...in one incident, he had the Carnival infiltrated just to kill people close to Isolde, and in one incident slaughtered a whole host of innocents just to fuck with his nemesis, telling the one survivor, mockingly, to give Isolde the message for him. He also mutated one woman into a vampiric Penggalan for kicks, and with one of the Mists' few heroes, monster hunter van richten, he helped revive van Richten's old nemesis to trap van Richten in a house to have him destroyed while allowing more chaos to spread.

The Gentleman Caller's plots are basically some of the worst in the entire setting, with a mile-long trail of horror and pain...he constantly sows murder and chaos, starting conflicts to enjoy it, while constantly using his powers to rape women and breed some sort of Vistani he needs to use its powers to fleethe Demiplane and leave Isolde trapped there forever....and if he creates an ocean of blood and death behind him as he does so?

Well. What's the point of a job you don't love, right?

Heinous standard?

In many ways, he is the Ravenloft heinous standard. He, like Vlad Drakov, is one of the few Serial Rapist types and his sowing conflict, pogroms, genocide, murder, torture and more? He stands out as one of the vilest characters in the entire setting. Easy pass here.

Mitigating Qualities?

The only thing worth discussing, and this is the biggie...one of the few things we know of the Gentleman Caller is that he's an incubus, and thus a demon. Now, demons in DND are basically beings of pure evil, Chaotic Evil in this case. However, the case I would like to make for this...

I did a lot of research on whether demons can be 'good' or not. The answer is generally speaking? No. No, they can't. With one or two exceptions...and those exceptions are incubi and succubi. Now, Belhifet was a Devil, which are more pragmatic lawful evil beings, but demons are beings of chaos and rage from the get go...again, the one exception? Succubi and Incubui are more in control as they need to function as agents and in subterfuge by definition. More than that, while it is rare, good incubi and succubi can indeed exists. Planescape Torment had Fall-From-Grace, a demon who defies her Tanar'ri nature to be a good cleric and is a good person, even if she has to struggle with her innate nature. The Empyrean Odyssey gives us Aliisza, an Alu-Fiend (a daughter of a succubus and a sorcerer a demon in its own righ) who is unabashedly evil at the start, but gradually becomes a good person by reflecting on her decisions, deeply loves her son and gives her life for a good cause by the end against her evil former lover. Malcanthet, the Queen of succubi, is capable of at least a measure of Even Evil Has Standards in some adventures like savage Tides (where she can be persuaded to be an ally).. The biggest one for me though? 3.5e featured Eludecia, a succubus paladin who fell in love and achieved a redemption for her soul, and fights for the side of righteousness

It is noted that it is not easy and it is a constant struggle to avoid slipping back, and only a naive idiot would attempt to redeem a demon in most cases...but can they change their natures? Yes. The Gentleman Caller, however, is the single most vile incubus in the franchise, who glories and revels in the horror he creates, while killing tons of people just to spite Isolde. So, overall, I would say he bypasses the agency issue just barely, given the nature of succubi and incubi and the tiny smidgens of honor and standards even demons can possess....

Now, maybe I just want him to count so much, because the Caller is a monster. He is one of, if not THE most evil of all the beings in the Mists. And DND cosmology being what it is, he could make the choice not to be evil, but he won't.

Conclusion?

Now, no shocker, but I would say to keep the Gentleman Caller. Other monsters will include his wicked son Malocchio Adarre there, and perhaps a few others...the Demiplane of Dread is a dark place after all.

The Gentleman Caller

To The Gentleman Caller and Shadow of Satan

To Mitsuki and Mimiko

Edit: Guys don't forget to vote for Kazuya's candidate (Shadow of Satan).

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 25th 2018 at 10:30:41 PM

Yes to the Caller.

Yes to Gentleman Caller.

I'll give a yes to the Caller, if only barely. I take it he's incubus mentioned in the beginning?