During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Abigail Thornwood.
Mir: Wow, those sound really cool. I hope you do find them.
Gloria, Whitby and Abigail. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Edmund.
Abstain on Andrew.
Yes to mir's villains and Andrew seems nasty but I know the manga's dark and haven't read anywhere near enough to be able to do a good assessment of a low resource villain, unlike the demon queen who was pretty open and shut. Lighty? Awesome? We got any opinions there for the Les Collaborateurs type human?
Going to a thing now. Katz and Andrew when I’m back
Arbaces, Gloria, Whitby and Abigail
Edmund
Will waot for Lighty to get back before voting on Andrew.
The Emperor of Evil!
I think Koobus Venter might need a expansion since it's missing some of the other nasty stuff he did, credit goes to Lighty who's was the one who gave me the info on it for me to expand it.
- Koobus Venter is a sadistic member of a special ops team who gets his jollies off murder, and relishes being able to kill without repercussion. Koobus carries out the oppression of the Prawns for PMC while leading hits and abductions of them to be horrifically experimented on by the company's scientists. Koobus guns down a prawn after it's been subdued and later leads a violent hunt for Wikus, with full willingness to kill whoever gets in the way. Koobus physically tortures the prawn Christopher Johnson while beating him and threatens to kill him regardless of getting Wikus, gleefully saying he can't believe he's getting paid to do what he loves: watching the Prawns die.
I've also removed the Mind Rape pothole because he doesn't do that in the film, he physically torture Christopher not psychologically tortures him.
Is this good enough?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
done 
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 10th 2021 at 5:39:38 AM
Good just take out the him before "watching the Prawns die."
The Venter expansion is good. Just one thing: "company's" is misspelled.
The film versions of Mason Verger and Vladis Grutas each also count? In the sandboxes, Gary Oldman and Ridley Scott each already reflect Verger right now and I just added Grutas pertaining to Rhys Ifans and Peter Webber in there today.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 10th 2021 at 2:46:19 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'd pothole sadistic, and use Psycho for Hire instead of Blood Knight (unless he actually DOES enjoy fighting).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Either work, I've seen the movie and he's largely motivated by getting to be a violent racist. PFH might work slightly better since he does do it for pay.
The Emperor of Evil!
I don't think he actually shows any joy in fighting beyond joy of killing, also the pothole with sadist I'm still gonna leave it as Psycho for Hire personally if that's okay. I'll replace Blood Knight with Sadist instead.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 10th 2021 at 5:56:21 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Also, what's PMC? It's that supposed to be MNU? Please add to the Drafts.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Private Military Contractor.
The Emperor of Evil!
My mistake, I'll fixed it ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Fixed it already.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 10th 2021 at 5:59:31 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
No, I mean I got that, but "Prawns for PMC"...shouldn't that be for MNU?
EDIT: Alright, how's this?
- Koobus Venter is a sadistic member of a special ops team who gets his jollies off murder, and relishes being able to kill without repercussion. Koobus carries out the oppression of the prawns for MNU while leading hits and abductions of them to be horrifically experimented on by the company's scientists. Koobus guns down a prawn after it's been subdued and later leads a violent hunt for Wikus, with full willingness to kill whoever gets in the way. Koobus physically tortures the prawn Christopher Johnson while beating him and threatens to kill him regardless of getting Wikus, gleefully saying he can't believe he's getting paid to do what he loves: watching the prawns die.
Edited by ACW on Oct 10th 2021 at 6:01:22 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
Eh, I like mine better as it is, but if you think that works that's fine by me.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 10th 2021 at 6:02:18 AM
I’m here, I guess.
Abigail, Whitby, and Gloria.
I see most people are unsure of my suggestion. That's fine, perhaps I was a bit overconfident. To maybe give some more clarity, Andrew is one of Peter Ratri's most loyal hitmen who he entrusted with killing the escapees, and storywise is the first member of the Ratri clan the protagonists meet and the first display of the clan's cruelty. Before his confrontation with Emma and the others, Peter had him kill off the "supporters", the remaining allies of James Ratri who worked to assist any children who escaped. He is just a mere Arc Villain who only lasted a couple of volumes (Introduced in Ch. 98, begins his attack on 103, and dies on 112). Still he and Peter are the only two notable human antagonists shown to be outright vicious. He takes no issue that the ones he's exterminating are children and is excessively cruel in carrying out his job. Here are a few of his quotes.
- Andrew (after Emma tries to reason with him): The lives you deserve? You want to protect them, eh? You've got it all wrong. You're food. Your lives never existed from the beginning. It's all an illusion.Andrew (bragging about the children he killed earlier): "He's human too." "He'll feel pain too." "If we kill him, the life we took won't come back." I'm sure they imagined various things. Absolute... idiots. It makes me laugh.Andrew (right before dying): I'LL CRUSH YOU TO DEATH!!! DIE!!! YOU PIGS!!! YOU LOWLY FOOD!!!
.
I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.
I have an unfortunate cut to suggest. Last year I successfully proposed Victor Marquez from the movie My Spy. Here is his entry:
Why I think we should cut him?
In my original EP I did mention that he kissed his brother's dog and lets it go but because I had watched the movie only once and because my dad was talking to my mom at the same time and other factors, I misinterpreted the scene.
In the EP I mentioned that this is not mitigating because he is doing it simply because he wants to freak the family out and enjoys their reaction when they think that he is about to kill their dog. However I rewatched the scene on You Tube and when the family freaks out and his niece begs him not to hurt the dog, he says:
He then kisses the dog briefly and takes the collar which contains the codes for the nuclear weapon he wants to sell and allows the dog to leave.
I should point out that he doesn't care about his brother since he murdered him and even tells his niece while he kidnaps her that she shouldn't call him "uncle" because he hates her father. However, apparently he cares about his brother's dog which means that we should cut him and I apologize for messing up with this proposal.
Edited by WatTambor on Oct 10th 2021 at 1:10:32 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
Cut Victor I guess
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 10th 2021 at 6:14:16 AM
Yes to Abigail. Gonna wait on Lighty's opinion for Andrew—Would Hurt a Child is gross but since it's a crime so utterly ubiquitous in the setting I'm not really sure Andrew pushes it with sadism alone. Cut Victor.
Anyway, more Marvel. I'm gonna touch on a setting I'm surprised nobody's looked into before this given it's kind of a...curiosity?
What's the setting?
The Marvel Mangaverse is one of the single weirdest alternate takes on the Marvel universe I’ve seen. During the early 2000s,some execs at Marvel decided the best way to drum up sales would be to release an alternate, deliberately (sometimes painfully) animesque illuatrations. Some strange changes were made to the canon too; Iron Man, for example, was now Tony Stark’s Younger and Hipper daughter. Dr. Doom, likewise, was a chick, and a Wakandan one at that. The Hulk was the interdimensional kaiju servant of Dormammu. And so on!
Some villains were still recognizably vile though. I'm gonna start with Baron Strucker (no "Von" in his name this time) from New Dawn and Eternity Twilight.
What has Baron Strucker done?
Head of HYDRA—Red Skull is nowhere to be seen in this continuity—and secretly The Dragon to Dormammu himself. Strucker's first attempt to summon Dormammu to the Earth led to an EMP blast that took power out all across the globe, leading to thousands of deaths and an event known as the Blackout Wars.
When the world regained power, Strucker has taken to acting as the Treacherous Advisor to none other than Namor the Sub-Mariner (who is still a human-hating Atlantean Knight Templar, although he's also a Bishōnen for some reason?), convincing Namor that humanity means him ill intent. Thanks to Strucker's manipulations, Namor initiates a full-on attack on the surface world. Behind Namor's back, Strucker spitefully murders his own ally Attuma and skips off to his real objective; summoning Dormammu once again.
Strucker is successful this time, and when Dormammu demands blood and souls, Strucker eagerly sacrifices all of his dozens of mooks in HYDRA to whet the dark god's appetite. Strucker intends for nothing less than the everlasting rule of Dormammu over the Earth and all humanity, though he's stopped when Dr. Strange blasts him into cosmic particles.
Any mitigating factors?
So obviously the standard's not gonna be as high in the primary 616 universe. A lot of villains are noticeably neutered—Dormammu's worst deed is to act an accessory to Strucker's own Bad Boss moment and he's a bog-standard "I shall conquer the world!" type villain besides. Villains like Apocalypse are still their recognizably genocidal selves, but others either don't show up or they don't get to anywhere near the kinda shit they do in 616. Strucker's obviously nowhere near as bad as his 616 self, but that's small consolation when he's still responsible for the death of thousands in this continuity.
Conclusion?
Keep.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 10th 2021 at 4:25:18 AM
Cut Victor. Yes to Strucker.
to Gloria Hodge, Mr. John Whitby, Abigail Thornwood, the Kagan quote, and Baron Strucker.
to Edmund Hooper. Cut Victor Marquez.
As for Andrew, do we know how many children he was planning to kill? One of the keepers, Lord Bayon, has developed a system of smuggling a children to be eaten by him, so Would Hurt a Child isn't that unique in this setting. However, it seems that Andrew is in a lower resource tier, so he doesn't have to accumulate the bodycount of Bayon, but I'm unsure if Andrew's bodycount is big or vile enough to pass the heinousness standard, which considers every antagonist, not just the human ones. How does Andrew's crimes compare to Bayon's or the other antagonists?
The Emperor of Evil!
to Strucker
Yes to Strucker.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Gloria, Eva fanfic rewrites, and Abigail
"No running in the halls!"