During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Maliphone and Angelus quote
How sweet it is
I'm good with the Angelus quote too, plus Maliphone.
In regards to cleanup, we got a completely spoiler tagged CM entry on Utopia 58. How are we handling that one? Found the page during a TRS effort.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
& : Alright, leaving as is.
Edited by Berrenta on Apr 9th 2021 at 10:16:26 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
A lot of CM entries are like that, usually when the identity of the character is a spoiler.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Professor Gigachad
The CM pages themselves are not spoiler tagged but from what I can tell sometimes the entries in the YMMV sections are.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
to Sima Yi Destiny Gundam, Gozu-Tennoh, David Ridges, Scott Turner/"Scotty", Colonel Asimov, Herod Sayle, the Chuutatsu Shibai rewrite, Ivan Kristov, Queen Maliphone, and the Angelus quote.
to Gundam villains, Asimov, Herod, Ivan, Maliph
Queen Maliphone.
Yes to Maliphone
So, working from home today, finished my work early, so... it's been a while since my last proposal, it seems! Anyway, here's a rare lady candidate (I know, villainesses aren't that rare, but for some reason I don't really see lady CMs that much.)
Today's Film
Death Valley is a late 1960s wuxia kung-fu film produced by Shaw Brothers, back in their heydays...
The film revolves around two heroes, respectively a warrior and an assassin; a warrior, Chiu Yu-Lung (Yueh Hua), coming home after receiving news about of his adoptive father's death, is to be initiated to be inheritor of his father's clan. However, an assassin, Jin-Fu, has been hired by a traitor of the Chiu family to silence Yu-Lung before he can return home.
When Yu-Lung saves Jin-Fu's life, things started getting complicated...
So, the Film's Potential Candidate is...
The Chiu Martial Arts school is one of many clans ruling of the martial world, with the patriarch, Master Chiu, being the leader. The warrior Chiu Yu-Lung is Master Chiu's nephew, and was sent out on a quest on his behalf; a few days before Yu-Lung's homecoming, Master Chiu announced to his followers that with retirement impending, he will pass the authority of rulership to his nephew Yu-Lung, which everyone agrees, including Chiu Chien-Ying, Yu-Lung's younger sister.
Except not. Chien-Ying, confiding to her lover Jin-Fu - a student under Master Chiu's tutelage - that she desires nothing more than a position of power, and blaming her uncle over favoritism, she managed to convince Jin-Fu to help her assasinate her uncle; that night, Chien-Ying poisons Master Chiu just as he's meditating, and when Master Chiu tries begging her for help while being attacked by a masked assassin (later turned out to be Jin-Fu), Chien-Ying instead summons one of her bribed henchman into stabbing Master Chiu, her uncle-slash-surrogate father, In the Back.
Between crocodile tears, Chien-Ying begs her nanny to write a letter summoning her brother, Yu-Lung, back home, and as soon as a messenger on horseback delivers the letter, Chien-Ying then stabs the nanny to death. Jin Fu who is nearby reacts with shock, but she coldly retorts that "anyone close to Master Chiu is a threat in her attempt to usurp power", before ordering him to kill her brother as he's returning. Jin-Fu had second thoughts about serving Chien-Ying after realizing her true nature, but after a night of having sex with her… well, Men are Idiots, it seems. After a night of passionate sex, Jin-Fu then follows Chien-Ying's bidding, leaving to find and kill Yu-Lung.
Due to Contrived Coincidence, Jin-Fu ends up interrupting a tavern duel when Yu-Lung fights off a band of thugs, and since Jin-Fu has never met Yu-Lung before and is oblivious to how he looks like (the movie is set before you can use phones to send a picture, after all), both men ends up forming a temporary alliance, oblivious they're supposedly enemies. (The fact that Jin Fu never bothered to ask about Yu Lung's name, for some reason, is also a factor...) That night, an assasination attempt on both warriors' lives is thwarted, with Yu-Lung saving Jin-Fu, making them sworn brothers.
Back to the potential candidate for a sec. Chien-Ying turns out to have a band of mercenaries under her employment, and when Yu-Lung interrupts the mercenaries sacking a village, Chien-Ying inevitably finds out her brother is still alive. Allowing Yu-Lung's return, Chien-Ying instead sics her mooks on her brother to kill him, and even ambushed her own brother with a dart while he's cornered. As Yu-Lung fled from his own home (pursued by his own sister's henchmen... not a pleasant situation), Chien-Ying orders mooks to search the surrounding village to hunt him down, while waiting for Jin-Fu's return. In the interim, Chien-Ying is revealed to have taken over the clans; everyone who opposed her rule or disagreeing with her now marked for death.
Yu-Lung survives despite being pursued, thanks to being rescued by a little boy he befriended. He recovers while being taken care by the boy's grandma; after recovering, Yu-Lung infiltrates his own home, again, and re-confronts his sister. Defeating Chien-Ying in a duel, Yu-Lung decides not to kill her, despite knowing her evil ways by saying "she's his sister after all"... Chien-Ying repays Yu-Lung NOT killing her by ordering the returning Jin-Fu to kill her brother. By this point, Jin-Fu is reluctant to serve this lousy bitch he calls a lover, and Chien-Ying then reveals she had kidnapped Jin-Fu's mother, threatening to have the mother killed if Jin-Fu doesn't obey her.
Our hero Yu-Lung doesn't feel like being a hero anymore, returning to the young boy who saved him, thinking he'll live the rest of his life without killing anyone, but alas, Chien-Ying's mercenaries arrived beforehand, killing both the child and the grandma, and leaving their corpses behind. An enraged Yu-Lung kills the mercenaries responsible, until he's down to one last challenger - Jin-Fu, his best friend, for a final duel, which they agree they will settle the following afternoon. (like Showdown at High Noon, but with swords, geddit?)
The following duel ends with Jin-Fu and Yu-Lung slashing each other in a Mutual Kill, just as dozens of the mercenaries shows up, having been ordered by Chien-Ying to kill off whomever survived the duel. But as it turns out, they're faking it - the two warriors realized they're screwed either way, and have agreed beforehand to fake each other's deaths. So when mercenaries comes over to check the bodies, Jin-Fu and Yu-Lung leaps to their feet and kills everyone in an epic 8-minute-long finale.
After the last mook is killed, Yu-Lung decides to leave, while Jin-Fu goes back to confront Chien-Ying. In the mansion, Chien-Ying ordered the rest of her servants to leave, deciding to flee alone with the Chiu family wealth on horseback, only to be interrupted by Jin-Fu who demands her to release his mother. Chien-Ying lies that his mother is chained under a bed, and with Jin-Fu distracted, she then throws a poisoned dart into him (In the Back of course, villains loves this trick), fatally poisoning Jin-Fu; Chien-Ying, in the usual Smug Snake / Manipulative Bitch / I Shall Taunt You manner, coldly tells Jin-Fu she already killed his mother, he's fatally poisoned and is helpless to stop her, nobody will know of her atrocities, blah blah blah… as villains are wont to do. But as she is leaving, Jin-Fu, with the last bit of his strength, throws a sharp disc... that only managed to hit Chien-Ying in her shoulders.
As it turns out, the disc flung bu Jin-Fu is also poisoned. Yu-Lung ultimately finds his sister... dead in the middle of nowhere with a sack of silver, the Chiu family wealth which she had stole for herself, her face blue from poisoning. Karma's a bitch, bitch.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuses
Well, she's got a hot ass...
… wait, sorry, I got distracted for a bit there. My bad. But for real, the villainess in this movie has a Furo Scene halfway through, complete with a Toplessness from the Back moment where the audience have an unobstructed view of Angela Yu's ass... cough, OK — sorry, let me start over.
Mitigating factors, she have not. She's power-hungry, and is willing to kill her uncle and nanny (both of them who adopted and raised her as a child!) with the flimsiest of excuses that she's being denied a position of authority in the clans. Her excuse that her brother is chosen over her also comes off as absolutely flimsy, because the brother is clearly more capable as a leader compared to her. And she just keeps getting worse from there...
What About the Heinousness Standard?
Well, being typical wuxia, characters tend to stray between Grey-and-Gray Morality... but still, none of the characters ever comes close to the villainess when it comes to heinousness.
Jin-Fu, her lover, had his own morals, is unwilling to kill the warrior who saved his life, and had a complete Heel–Face Turn halfway through.
The mercenary leader is shown flogging an old farmer and later on kills the young boy who helped Yu-Lung, the latter deed which is under Chien-Ying's orders. He's a henchman at worst, so nothing about him either.
Should we Count Chiu Chien-Ying then?
Unobstructed view of Angela Yu's derriere aside, yes.
Edited by RobertTYL on Apr 9th 2021 at 7:12:31 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What they said. Completely spoiler-tagged entries on the YMMV pages are okay if the character is a Walking Spoiler.
Yes to Maliphone and Chiu. Anyway to trim Chiu's EP?
Edited by ACW on Apr 9th 2021 at 6:32:16 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Eh, I'll try removing a few lines...
to Queen Maliphone and Chien-Ying.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and can we get a consensus on the image and quote for EC Comics?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Chien-Ying, Sayle and Maliphone. I think that we should chande Western Animation index on Street Fighter Monster page to Anime and Manga index.
Edited by DrScavenge27 on Apr 9th 2021 at 4:44:10 AM
I remember posting possible choice for EC Comics images and quotes twice before.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 9th 2021 at 2:44:09 PM
Goku Black
Maliphone and Chiu
Woagh
to Chien-Ying, Sayle and Maliphone.
Anyone mind if i propose a Rewrite? Specifically, for Giant Man from Marvel Zombies:
- Complete Monster: Henry "Hank" Pym, aka Giant Man from Earth-2149, is the Overarching Villain of the entire metaseries and a former superhero who got much worse during the Hunger Virus outbreak. After being infected, Pym kidnaps Black Panther to use him as a personal food supply and confesses to him that even if he would become human once again, he would still eat human flesh. When Wasp finds out about this and is angry with him, he bites her head off without hesitation. After Magneto destroys a portal to other dimensions, Pym, along with the other zombies, devours him in a rage. When the Silver Surfer arrives on Earth, Pym devours him and proudly reveals this to the arriving Galactus, angering him. Having devoured Galactus, he, along with several other zombies, uses the received cosmic power to kill all other zombies on the planet, seize Galactus's ship and travel on it across the universe. Forty years later, having successfully devoured all life in the universe, they return to Earth to repair the destroyed portal in order to devour sapient beings from other universes. Teletransported to Earth-91126, Pym devours Uatunote , studies his technologies, and successfully turns the planet's population into zombies. Later, he betrays The Sentry and tries to use his powers to activate the portal. Selfish, merciless and sadistic, Pym never tried to redeem himself, although he had such an opportunity, and would destroy his allies when they outlived their usefulness to make the multiverse his personal "All-you-can-eat-buffet".
Mostly, i have an issue during the part where it essensially summarizes what the other zombies do to the universe. True, he does enough to stand out, what with infecting a whole other world and being much more sadistic about eating people, but i feel the "Eating the entire multiverse" thing could use a bit more shortening IMO. Anyone mind?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Chiu Chien-Ying.
Showtime!
to Maliphone and Chien-Ying
Is it just me, or is Bill Cipher's draft longer than most? Should it be shortened?
Lizzid people!
He's done a lot; it was shortened before.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, it probably COULD be shortened, but given all he does, it's probably fine.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Actually, yeah, you have a point. Also, Willy Weasel/Jerry Robert Wills became a cannibal only after possessing an animatronic.
to Chien-Ying.
Okay its been two weeks since season 2 of Solar Opposites first aired and I'm afraid that I have someone that needs to be cut. Namely it is The Duke. It is revealed that The Duke had survived The Wall and has been living in the backyard for some time. He would soon come face to face with Cherrie and is forced into an Enemy Mine situation with her. During that time The Duke bonds with Cherrie and grows to genuinely care for her. Eventually he sacrifices his life to protect Cherrie and the baby that she was carrying inside her and in The Duke's final moments he showed regret while admitting that he was a terrible ruler and hoped that by saving Cherrie he is able to do some good to make for that and even tell Cherrie his name, Ringo. I may have another candidate from that show that I'll EP later, but I wanted to first discuss The Duke getting cut since it was very important.
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 9th 2021 at 12:29:21 PM
Let's not just skip over the proposed Angelus quote, albeit I'll format it right:
Angelus: Couldn't have said it better myself.
Maybe it's just because I know the full context - the Judge kills anything even remotely human with a single touch, including a vampire whose only "weakness" is enjoying reading - but I like it.