Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I think my vote on Hodge at present is a narrow if only because having him, Stryker, and Pierce on the page might be a bit crowded, and because Moreau, despite his nobler intentions, is equally guilty until Hodge betrays him.

Do you think animated Cameron Hodge might count, given my description of his various misdeeds?

Yeah, and as I said I haven't read the Hodge-Phalanx storyline in the comics, so if he does the same stuff there that'd be enough for me to change my vote.

On YMMV.Adventure Quest Worlds, would it be okay if I replaced the entries with a link to Monster.Artix Entertainment? Because the list is a mess.

Yeah that sounds okay.

I have only seen the animated version, I have not read the comic. We can table Comic Book Hodge till we get more info.

I think I will do some rewrite ups for the X-Men animated villains a little later.

edited 2nd Nov '13 7:51:17 PM by TheOverlord

Awhile ago Lightysnake asked if anybody knew anything about Fairy Tale. I know bugger all about the series, but my girlfriend's sisters are fans, though it's been a fair bit since they've seen some of these villains in action. I went through the page with them, and these are the preliminary reports they gave me:

Sol and Future Rogue are definite cuts, according to them. Sol doesn't do much to stand out and looking over the rest of the list, I'm inclined to agree with them there. Future Rogue apparently has a hell of a freudian excuse, may still have redeeming qualities, has questionable moral agency, and his arc isn't even over yet.

Jose and Minverva are the two definite keeps, they say. Jose's entry is badly written, but what he's apparently trying to do is wipe out an entire guild, simply out of envy at their success. That's butchering tens or even hundreds of people out of petty jealousy. Looking over the wiki he tries to most of it in person, starting a guild war, bombaring their headquarters with his own cannon, kidnapping Lucy, torturing Erza, and generally being a prick. As for Minerva, her entry sounds like one of those "what a bitch" ones, but reading the entry and listening to the girls rant about about her, she's got a penchant for torture, multiple murder attempts to her name, a side dose of psychological torment, and that's keeping in mind that she's one person with limited resources and powers. I've looked her up on the wiki too, and it seems to confirm the worst. Her story's still ongoing, and it seems she's set to get worse.

As for the rest—we didn't talk about Jiemma but given that he's mentioned only in conjunction with Minerva and only crossed the Moral Event Horizon, I say cut. The girls were ambivalent about Brain and Zancrow leaning more heavily towards keeping Zancrow, but said they'd have to reread it again.

For now I'd say rewrite and keep Jose and Minerva, cut Jiemma, Sol, and Future Rogue, and holding pattern on Brain and Zancrow until I, or somebody else, has more information.

edited 2nd Nov '13 10:37:30 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

i think we might keep Minerva for now but be warned...it's been hinted she may not be beyond redemption. Erza has indicates she wants to redeem her.

Zancrow was voted keep in the past I believe

I wouldn't know; I haven't read the series. If she hasn't been redeemed yet though, there should be a holding pattern. Though she really needs a better entry. So does Jose. The current entry doesn't come close to describing what he actually did. I'll try and do a rewrite sometime this week.

Does anybody else have opinions on the write-ups for Ruthven, Max, or Fouchon? Or can I have those put up now?

edited 2nd Nov '13 10:38:15 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

On Fairy Tail.

Sol is a dick. All things considered, he's one of the bigger dicks in Phantom Lord. And that's all he is. Doesn't do enough to stand out. Not likely to appear again. Cut.

Jose has an irrational hatred of Fairy Tail and constantly assaults its members. He enjoys thrashing Erza, who he outclasses. He tries to blow up the guild with a giant cannon, which would probably also damage a large part of the town. I could see him staying. He probably won't appear in the series again.

Brain is the head of one of the top 3 Dark Guilds, the main underground criminal organizations. He tries to gain control of Nirvana in order to switch people's alignment to his side in order to do evil stuff or something. He shoots his ally Cobra in the back after he technically beats his opponent, albeit Cobra was heavily injured and he might have been influenced by his alternate personality. Said alternate personality, Zero, tries to finish what Brain started, but he's much more Axe-Crazy and just wants to destroy stuff. It's hinted in the manga, and confirmed in the anime, that he mentored Jellal while the latter was in control of the Tower of Heaven, which was being kept by slaves and probably had some human sacrifice going on. I could see him staying, but he doesn't really stand out to me personally for how high he is. He might appear again.

Zancrow is one of the elite members of Grimoire Heart, another of the top Dark Guilds. He's just crazy and likes to destroy stuff. He pretends to care about members of his guild, but when some of the mooks are beaten by Natsu, he burns and kills them. Really he tries to kill everyone he meets. When he sees his ally Meredy running with the unconscious Zeref, he immediately assumes she's betrayed them(he's sort of right) and tries to kill her before he's killed by Zeref. He almost certainly isn't appearing again. For a standard bad guy, he's surprisingly bad. I say keep.

Jiemma is the guild-master of Sabertooth, the top legitimate guild after the time skip. He's disparaging towards anyone he sees as weak and obsess over keeping Sabertooth as the top guild. When Yukino loses a tournament match against someone she had no chance against, he makes her strip and kicks her out of the guild. He seemingly kills Lector, a sentient cat, because he doesn't want such weak creatures in his guild. Sting blows a hole in his stomach for that. His current whereabouts are unknown, but we'll probably see him again. I say cut. He's not too impressive overall, and he's overshadowed by his daughter.

Minerva is Jiemma's daughter, but she's got her own plans. One of the first things she does is torture Lucy in one of their tournament matches, right in front of everyone after she had basically already won. When Lector is seemingly killed and Jiemma is injured, she reveals she saved Lector, but then holds him as a hostage to get Sting to do what she wants. She then kicks her possibly fatally wounded father out of the guild, for being too weak, which is the philosophy he had been following. In the last match, she holds Millianna hostage to make Erza and Kagura fight each other. Like her father, she wants to make sure her guild remains on top. When she loses, she leaves Sabertooth and joins a Dark Guild. When she runs into Erza, who's been turned into a child, she tries to kill her in revenge. After that, it looks like she's joining up with Tartaros, the last of the top Dark Guilds, though she's kind of forced to. Her arc is ongoing. Currently I think she fits, but depending on whatever shenanigans she gets up to in Tartaros, she could end up very overshadowed, or possibly get sympathy points. Or she may just get worse.

Future Rogue comes from a future where dragons have destroyed most of the world. In that future he apparently killed his best friend Sting and gained his powers, though that was all off-panel. He comes to the present to try and take control of the dragons so he can take over the world, because now he's evil or something, since present Rouge is a nice guy. He does kill future Lucy, though he was targeting present Lucy, and he sets his dragons to burn the town, which would have killed a lot of people had Ultear not reversed time. He gets erased from the timeline, and is unlikely to appear again. He destroys a lot and has grand plans, but he seems to have been driven crazy from what he went through, not to mention his cat, Frosch, was also killed. Too crazy and a decent enough freudian excuse. Cut.

Thanks for the information. Sounds more or less in agreement with what I was told by the girls. With the added info I'd say keep Zancrow and cut Brain. Sounds like the former makes the most of limited screentime, while the latter doesn't do as much as he could with more.

I'm assuming from what you've said, what I was told, and what the wiki says that when Jose tries to blow up the guild with his cannon there are people inside? As long as that's the case that's a pretty respectable attempted bodycount.

edited 2nd Nov '13 10:51:09 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Yep, Jose tried to wipe out the whole Guild

18641: We need to finish Artix.

@ 18577: Okay,I did remember votes for his inclusion, just not as many as I thought. Add my vote to keep Professor Zoom to that list.

@ 18578: the right ups for Diana from V and John Milton from The Devil's Advocate look great.

@ 18581: The Vandal Savage wrightup for Justice League Doom.

@ 18582: Edwin Epps of Twelve Years A Slave sounds like a keep.

@ 18587: Cletus Kassady and Herbert Landon from Spider Man The Animated Series are both keeps. I'm shocked myself given the censorship.

To elaborate on Phantom, the entry made it sound like he had no moral agency, but what it really meant was that he had no emotions or rather couldn't feel them, like a Sociopath. The fact that he got Prosecutor Blackquil convicted and tried to pin the crime on an 11 year girl is pretty heinous. I could probably do a write up of him to replace the other one, now that I know more about him.

Cutting Keyser Söze from The Usual Suspects is a good idea. While he's certainly played up as a Complete Monster by about anyone who mentions him, allowing characters' opinions about someone to qualify them as a Complete Monster is different a can of worm.

Well we do see Soze in flashbacks but who's to say if Verbal is telling the truth?

Considering the source, I wouldn't trust much of what we're told about Soze.

Hi, I'm the guy who wrote the two new Arrow entries. I didn't realize I was supposed to clear anything with a thread first. The three people listed there are all one shot villains (Well, The Count does show up again, but he's a vegetable the second time). Each of these people get their jollies from murder, which sets them apart from the other villains seen in the show thus far.

First off, The Count:

• The Count appears to be a complete sociopath nutjob who subjects people to such excruciating pain that they would rather shoot themselves to end the pain than shoot him for revenge. Worse, he views the number of people who died to perfect his drug Vertigo as a measure of its value, comparing it to wine being measured by its age.

This about sums it up. The guy doesn't have a whole lot of screen time, so this is more or less all we see him do. What the writeup fails to capture is the rather impressive level of sadistic glee that went into Seth Gabel's performance, and just how much he's enjoying it when the poor bastard in front of him decides to off himself and end the suffering.

Cyrus Vanch:

• Cyrus Vanch is another gleeful sociopath who kills practically everyone he comes into contact with and hires mooks that he knows will be killed for the sole purpose of running down the Hood's quiver.

Vanch is, frankly, almost boring in his one-note evilness. The "practically everyone he comes into contact with" bit isn't exaggeration—he's introduced casually offing the lawyer who helped get him out on parole and taking over the man's house. It's his utter disregard for the lives of his hired guns that I feel earns him a spot on the list.

The Dollmaker:

• The Dollmaker is an unbelievably creepy Serial Killer who seems more at home in a horror film than this series. While he fits the mold of a standard collector-type, he doesn't actually keep the bodies meaning he wants people to see his exploits.

For the record: this is the Dollmaker. Everything he does in this episode is a variation of what he's doing in that clip. He's a serial killer who preys on young women and has a particular vendetta against Quentin Lance and, by extension, Laurel, for putting him away after his first spree with the same MO.

It's no problem. Important thing is we're doing them here in the end.

Now...The Count I can see. We see what he does in great detail, we see he's done it to others and he tries to do it to Ollie. It's a rather unique form of sadism for this series as well.

The tougher one is honestly Vanch. I'm not sure he's heinous enough. Being a severe Bad Boss like that in a show with more than a couple of killers may not push you over the edge. Dollmaker is a keep

I'll add Diana and John Milton to their pages and the edit thread. Unless there are any objections I'll cut Mitchell and the Borg Queen.

Re: Keyser Söze: the only confirmed facts are the shootout and that he spinned a giant lie to get away. Only the scenes featuring the police are undoubtedly real, which don't provide enough ground to dub him a CM.

Re: Lex Luthor: So taking the first two films in consideration means that Luthor is simply not played seriously enough to qualify. Even Superman Returns itself has this problem. As pointed out, I also don't recall him really mentioning the billions of deaths that his plan would entail.

Requested rewrites for Alcatraz:

• Kit Nelson is a child serial killer despised by all the other hardened inmates in Alcatraz. He murdered his brother when he was an 11-year old boy by strangling him to death. He would later use his brother's death as a motif for all his subsequent murders. His pattern consisted of breaking into a young boy's bedroom at night and abduct the kid at knifepoint by threatening to kill his siblings or parents if he didn't comply, leaving a flower behind in his place. Then he would force them to take part in his late brother's favorite hobbies for a few days, and strangle them to death in a bomb shelter with murderous glee. He drops off the boys' bodies back where he abducted them, their bedrooms. He's one of the only criminals in the show to be killed instead of captured by Agent Hauser.
• Paxton Petty is a Mad Bomber who plants mines in public places to enjoy watching people get blown apart. During the Korean War he planted mines in the local children's playgrounds to eliminate potential Child Soldiers, for which he was sent to a military prison. After getting out he starts to plant more mines around San Francisco to kill as many random civilians as possible, including in elementary school yards. He traps Hauser on one of the mines, but modified the bomb such that the bomb disposal professional would inevitably be killed during the dismantling procedure no matter what they did.

I'd also like to suggest a new example: the Warlock from Warlock, specifically the one in the first film. These are three movies which are sequels in name only. The first one is an evil sorceror for whom there is no evidence that he isn't simply a wicked human who chooses to do heinous things. In the second film the completely different Warlock is born through Express Delivery as the spawn of Satan for the sole purpose of reviving him, so there are moral agency issues there. The first one fits all criteria and can't even be said to love his master, since he bargains for as much power as possible before even doing anything for him.

• The Warlock from Warlock is an Evil Sorceror who serves Satan, doing whatever heinous acts are necessary to gain more power. His plan is to recreate the dissassembled Grand Grimoire, a Satanic book which he can use to undo all of Creation and for which the Devil will reward him with untold powers. In the 17th century he escapes from a witch hunter into the future 20th century to complete his task. After being taken care of by a friendly housekeeper upon his arrival, he chops off the man's fingers and bites out his tongue to kill him. He uses an unwitting medium to channel his master and then carves out her eyes to use as a compass. He further casts a Rapid Aging curse on the heroine to extend her suffering by seeing her own life go by in a matter of days, skins a child and boils it down for the fat so he can use it in a flying spell, and threatens to kill a priest's unborn children to compel him to provide the location of the last pages of the Grimoire.

edited 3rd Nov '13 2:48:29 PM by Morgenthaler

Great writeups, and the Warlock is a .

So Phantom's a keep then? I'll see what I can do to summarize the entry.

Phantom, from Phoenix Wright Dual Destinies, aka: Fake Detective Bobby Fulbright is extremely nasty. He started off by killing Athena Cykes' mother when she was only 11 years old and ended up getting Prosecutor Blackquil convicted. Before that, he killed the real Detective Bobby Fulbright and assumed his identity. He also sabotages a national symbol of pride, known as the HAT-1. If that wasn't bad enough, he's ruined the lives of several people besides the aforementioned Athena Cykes and Prosecutor Simon Blackquil and is indirectly responsible for almost every murder in the game, including setting off the bomb in the courtroom that was thought to be the work of Ted Tonate, which could have caused massive amount of death. Oh, and he framed two girls and an astronaut for his crimes the two girls being Athena and her best friend, an Ill Girl. To top it all off, if you count the murder done by his associate, Ted Tonate, he has the highest death toll of the entire franchise. He's not sorry for any of this, folks. What's really disturbing is that nobody knows his true identity and he almost gets away with everything. Had it not been for the combined efforts of Athena, Phoenix, and Apollo, he would have gotten away with it all.

How's that for a rewrite?

edited 3rd Nov '13 2:45:31 PM by Klavice

Anaksha: Female Assassin

• Complete Monster: Every one of Anaksha's victims qualifies, but the one that stands out the most is Vincent St. Claire, the Big Bad. He rapes and murders his pregnant wife despite Anaksha's best efforts to save her, and he conceals his job as a crime lord by pretending to be a school principal, a job he uses to sell drugs to children. He's also the mastermind of a human trafficking ring that sells Russian and Filipina girls into sexual slavery. He also tries to frame Anaksha when she disrupts his operations by attempting to blow up his own school! Needless to say, it's pretty satisfying to take him down.
  • "Larry, Moe and Curly," your fifth targets and the first major child-rapists you get to kill, are also big standouts. These three kidnap a twelve-year-old girl from her home, rape and sexually torture her for an hour as she screams for her life, and then they sadistically tattoo the word "whore" all over her body with an old syringe and a ball-point pen. The poor girl is Driven to Suicide by this ordeal, hanging herself in the hospital.
  • Eamon and Cal, your tenth targets, as well as their egomaniacal mother. Eamon is yet another wife-beating asshole, with things made worse because his wife, Sarah, is sixteen years old and was forced into marriage to him by her own family (which doesn't say good things about them either, and renders this one hell of a fucked-up situation). In addition to the usual abuse, Eamon also kills Sarah's cat, probably her only source of joy, in sickening fashion by dousing it with butane and burning it alive, most likely to "show her who's boss." And then when she finally decides to divorce him, both he and Cal beat the living shit out of her, cut her tongue out, and then they douse her with butane just like Eamon did to the cat before proceeding to burn her alive, with poor Sarah being conscious for all of this. And their mother does not lift a finger to stop them. Even Anaksha, who has taken out some pretty horrible targets at this point — up to and including a cannibal Serial Killer — has to ask D, "Where the hell do you find these people?"
  • And then there's the four dirty cops on Vincent's payroll, the last guys you kill before you move on to him. These guys assist Vincent in destroying evidence, assaulting prisoners, and even selling his product. In addition, their Kick the Dog moment is singularly heinous — they gang-rape a 13-year-old girl in their patrol vehicle, and then they plant drugs on her and get her sent to prison, which she can't fight because it's her word against theirs.
  • Trent from A New Threat is probably the biggest monster of the Mini-Adventures. He's responsible for Brad's murder at roughly the two-thirds point of the game, is one of several people responsible for the kidnapping of Ivonne Mozheika, the Russian orphan you have to rescue in Anaksha: Dark Angel (the other being Kurt, who may be an even bigger monster than Trent), and is one of the key figures behind the new drug epidemic that is sweeping Santa Lina like hellfire. Like a lot of Anaksha's male targets, he's also a complete misogynistic scumbag, and during their final confrontation threatens to tie her up, rape her and knife her to death.

Good lord. Well first things first, Anaksha's victims can't ALL qualify. And to say the least, these need trimming.

Maybe get rid of the part about him almost being a Karma Houdini.

Done it just says he almost got away with it. How's it look now?