Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Sorry for the late writeup but here it is. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Sienna.
Bomb Voyage is a French supervillain who sets out to rob the Municiberg Bank. Using bombs to escape from the vault, he runs into Mr. Incredible, where after preparing to face off against him, Buddy Pines steps onto the scene to get Mr. Incredible to hire him as his sidekick. Failing to escape from a distracted Mr. Incredible, Voyage still manages to humorously make fun of Buddy’s outfit. When Buddy attempts to leave to get the police, Voyage plants a bomb on his cape causing Mr. Incredible to chase after him. Voyage uses this to escape and end his heist on a successful note.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ah I see. Thought you went MIA for a moment. I'll move them to the page when I have some time.
Caesar
Nah just busy IRL and don't always get my write-ups in on time.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
- Throne of Blood: The Spirit of Spider's Web Forest is a supernatural being who ensures the natural cycle of life carries on. Bestowing the ambitious samurai Taketoki Washizu a trio of fortunes, it knows his festering want will lead to Washizu killing his Great Lord to claim his castle and domain. When the realm rebels against the steadily maddening Washizu, the Spirit uses selective words to convince Washizu of his invincibility, sending him to his death and restoring progress to the lands.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 1st 2023 at 6:16:31 AM
Expect a discussion on Castlevania Nocturne next week
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Blue and Sienna.
Anyone got good quotes for GTA and TMNT pages?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to Blue and Sienna.
Here's a decent quote for the GTA page from good ole Mike Toreno.
It's not all white knights and heroes. We have to make decisions, kid. You know, I try to set bad people on other bad people and sometimes I let good guys die. -Mike Toreno
I also got a potential page image of Lester Crest a few pages back, though it needs some downsizing.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 1st 2023 at 7:12:05 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I support both of your suggestions FWIW Lore.
"The Juice is Loose."
That is a great quote.
Caesar
Here's some possible TMNT quotes, revolving around Superfly:
Edited by Ravok on Oct 7th 2023 at 9:29:28 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Has anyone reserved Adi Shankar's Devil May Cry series?
Not the Eye
Yes to Mike quote.
Love all Superfly quotes, my choice is first one.
Agreed
Also, have a fun one from a little horror film:
What's the work?
The Willies is a 1990 horror anthology film and an early one from none other than Sean Astin. A young man and his cousins are telling stories in their tent outside, which form the basis of the tales. The first is Bad Apples about a boy named Danny who is bullied by his teacher and other students. He's only got one person who helps him: the kind old janitor Mr. Jenkins. Danny then encounters something in the bathroom, but nobody believes him...but something that might be the end of his bully problems...
Who is Mr. Jenkins?
A nice old janitor who isn't happy when Danny is beaten up. Danny is terrified to tell the old man about the bullying, who promises he won't tell anyone. so, to get the twist out of the way? Mr. Jenkins isn't human. At all. In fact, he's a very dangerous monster who wears a human disguise. And he does not like bullies. At all.
Upon encountering Danny in his true form, he gets Danny to lure in his bullying nasty teacher who threatens him all the way. Then springs his trap to attack said teacher and drags her up into the vents (where he's made a nice lair) and the blood speaks for itself.
When attacked by his bullies, Jenkins ensures Danny leads them to the bathroom where he traps them after Danny's had time to block the door and escape. You'd expect him to just scare the kids straight. But, uh...no, he freaking murders them.
With them missing, we see Jenkins slip into his human disguise and he then flees the school. Cue the reveal he's done this before and will again, being at a new school where the principal is leading a mother to try to find her missing son. Jenkins coldly tells them the boy is a "bad apple" and he'd witnessed him bullying other kids, stealing their lunch money and "making a nuisance of himself". When they depart, Jenkins resumes cleaning....with a shirt as a rag that he rings the blood out of.
Mitigating issues?
Nope. He's got the planning down pat with how he deals with bullies and expertly evades capture. Honestly, he's got great personality from character actor James Karen. Just delightfully pleasant, but with a vicious streak under it.
So the bastard front? Yes. Like, easily. You'd expect him to be scaring the bullies straight. But Jenkins taes a very strict "no prisoners" policy. If he finds bullies? He fucking murders them. It's implied nice kids like Danny are in no danger from him and he only targets bullies, but like still. The ending of the wraparound also reveals he's the father of the brothers and ends it seemingly menacing the kids when asked to prove the story of Mr. Jenkins is real but nothing seems to imply they're in mortal danger from him.
Conclusion?
Easy yes.
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Jenkins.
Ravok: I love all three quotes. I say the first one for the TMNT page and the rest can be put on the quotes page.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
Jenkins
Not the Eye
to Jenkins
Goku Black
old man Jenkins
I love the TV report on Superfly Rev and yes there Lighty, can you do Ellen's writeup btw?
Which Ellen?
Masters of Horror lol
"The Juice is Loose."
Has Scandal ever been discussed here?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Nope.
Off the top of my head. Olivia, Cyrus and Ronan are easy keepers. And a case could be made for Jake and charlie.
Well maybe not Jake as his final fate is not... Great. But the others end on a high note.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 2nd 2023 at 3:04:31 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
What's the work?
The Magnificent Seven (1960) is a Western by John Sturges and the most well-known adaptation of the likewise excellent Seven Samurai, itself by the director of my previous post's film, Akira Kurosawa. Along with the shift in setting, rather than one of a faceless horde, the Big Bad, Calvera, is made by Eli Wallach into a delightful villain as the leader of the bandits assailing the nameless Mexican village. The unlikely heroes band together but the villain proves a very crafty foe.
Who is Calvera? What has he done?
With the scene-stealing energy of his actor, we meet him riding into the set after committing one of many successful raids, boasting of his triumph to a captive bartender as they take the villagers' goods. When another villager charges at him with a sickle drawn, Calvera shoots him dead, prompting the village to decide to take up arms and fight back and put an end to his attacks.
In a nearby US town, the villagers recruit hero Chris Adams and the rest of the titular gunmen who quickly get into conflict with Calvera's scouts, killing the three. Personally riding to the village, he confronts the seven, unyielding to their threats and offering them to join his gang, only being forced back in a shootout with their combined gun skills. As the villagers try to celebrate their victory, Calvera's men start firing upon them from afar, having fallen back to shoot from a distance. The heroes under Chris secure the village to keep the people safe.
His men going hungry after being beaten back, Calvera ups his trickery and makes a deal with a group of villagers scared to continue fighting him and when Chris leads the seven in an attempt to attack the bandit camp finds it abandoned. Taking the village captive with the help of Les Collaborateurs, the bandits ambush the seven and hold them at gunpoint. Wishing to quietly get rid of them without drawing more bounty hunters, Calvera offers the seven to leave in return for removing their guns, with Chris seemingly taking the deal. Finding themselves unable to abandon the village after being led away, all but one of the gunmen agree to go back. In the climactic battle Calvera takes to personally leading his men, his troops nearly killing Chris, who's only saved by the intervention of Harry, who'd previously refused to return. In the bloody combat which sees four of the gunmen killed, Calvera himself winds up facing down with Chris, Chris outdrawing and mortally wounding him. Before dying, he takes the time to give a surprisingly poignant final line, even as it stays in the tone of his Evil Cannot Comprehend Good character:
Actions and personality?
In contrast to the character he's based on... *checks notes* the... bandit leader, Wallach steals the show and Calvera's a career bandit who's lead his men for years of successful thieving, going from his usual villages to even noting having once hit a bank in Texas and escaped from the American army. He's not quite a Benevolent Boss but he treats his men well enough, has tons of affable charm in his dialogue and he's so pragmatic things like mass murdering the villagers or getting into grosser Rape, Pillage, and Burn stuff doesn't even cross his mind, the guy likes to get in and get out when robbing.
Mitigating factors?
He's an oppressive bandit robbing an impoverished village, yes he's evil but he's a Western villain and it's all quite standard for the genre.
Verdict?
A great and classic keeper.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Yes there 43!
By chance anyone from the 2016 film count?
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Yes there, STAR! Likewise not seeing why I wouldn't do my own write-ups lol, which I have right here:
- Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas:
- Wu Zi Mu, known to all as "Woozie," is the head of the Triad gang known as the Mountain Cloud Boys, and serves as one of CJ's closest allies. Despite being blind, Woozie has the inexplicable ability to drive and fire guns with impressive skill, and he routinely surprises CJ with his capabilities. Though a polite, peaceful man at heart, Woozie is nonetheless a ruthless gangster who will subject enemies to torture, and even knocks out power to a whole city to mask a his criminal activity. Woozie is an invaluable source of intel and resources to CJ in taking down the Loco Syndicate and Da Nang Boys, and near the end, Woozie works with CJ to mastermind the brilliant heist of Caligula's Casino that rips off all the mafia families and leaves Woozie's Mountain Cloud Boys as the most powerful gang in San Andreas.
- (Toreno)
- Grand Theft Auto: Vice City:
- (Tommy)
- Auntie Poulet is the seemingly-kindly matriarch of the Haitian gangs, who winds up using Tommy as a puppet. Poulet has waged war on the Cubans for years, so when Tommy begins helping the Cubans, Poulet tricks him into drinking her drugged tea and hearing her Compelling Voice, manipulating him into striking several key blows against the Cubans. After Tommy has helped the Haitian obtain multiple wins, Poulet honors her initial promise and lets Tommy walk free from her control, albeit with the ultimatum that if he interferes in Haitian business again, her gang will try to kill him on-sight.
- "Mr. Black" is a mysterious, unseen criminal who runs a vast hitman organization that he offers to paying clients. Black has his hitmen use untraceable payphones to contact him, where he sets them up with the proper equipment and uses his intelligence-gathering skills to inform them of their target's patterns and identities to help their objective go smoothly. When Tommy starts taking jobs, Black gives him the weapons he needs for the jobs and the targets he is after, ranging from troublesome wives to entire gangs, and Black always pays Tommy what he is owed after every hit is complete.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!