Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Manga!Gendo
Not the Eye
to Nadezhda and Gendo
So, today I come to you with a rather...unorthodox candidate. I'm not sure if he'll get accepted, but fuck it, we ball.
What is the work?
Epic Rap Battles of History is a channel run by Nice Peter and EpicLloyd. Its gimmick is its MO of taking two famous characters, real or fictional, and making them compete in a rap battle.
Who is Darth Vader? What does he do?
Darth Vader is the masked, black-clad villain from Star Wars who we all know and love, competing with Adolf Hitler in three of the most memorable rap battles in ERB overall.
The first battle starts off in typical ERB fashion, with the two of them fighting against one another, but the ending is rather different from the formula, with Vader force-choking Hitler and using this to freeze him in carbonite while continuing to rhyme in flow with the music. This being a trilogy, there is a little more story to it than most rap battles, even if it is arguably an Excuse Plot. The second battle begins with Vader thawing Hitler out of the carbonite, seeking to rap battle him a second time, but he did so near to the Rancor Pit, allowing Hitler to stand above it before his new Dragon, Stephen Hawking, arrives to point it out to Hitler. Vader drops him into it in the middle of his verse, ending the battle prematurely.
In the third battle, Hitler, having survived in the Rancor Pit, manages to escape Vader's attempt to feed him to the Sarlacc, and challenges Vader to another rematch, not wanting to accept his defeats. Hitler's rhymes are much less composed and sophisticated than his last two battles, even taking into account his usual Adolf Hitlarious characterisation (to get an idea of what we are dealing with, he opens up the third battle with "Screw you, you...big, black cunt!"), but Vader is calm as ever, using his turn to give Hitler an incredible "Reason You Suck" Speech through rhyme before passing the mic to Boba Fett. Hitler takes a leaf out of Vader's book and kills Fett mid-verse, which turns out to be just what Vader needed to stop fucking around and return the favour, silently walking up to Hitler mid-Villainous Breakdown and slicing him in half.
Is he Magnificent? Does he think on his feet?
For an ERB character, Vader is very characterised, in a way that is rather different from his canon character. He is still very stoic and composed, taking all of Hitler's disses in stride, contrasting his Psychopathic Manchild of an opponent very nicely, but he also shows himself to be Affably Evil in many ways - he has a "homeboy in Israel" and declares that he loathes Hitler, showing himself to have standards against the Nazi, and is also genuinely friends with Boba Fett, genuinely enjoying the eight seconds of rap that Boba got before Hitler killed him, and his death being the last straw and the thing that finally makes him stop tolerating Hitler's nonsense. He is also characterised as being A Father to His Men, boasting that his legions of troops would willingly die for him. He is also polite enough to openly refuse to use the C-word (Hitler, mind you, has no such compunctions).
He seems to be a believer in Pragmatic Villainy to an extent, as while he believes Hitler is the worst (as he should), he also mocks his lack of pragmatism, as discussed on his entry on his character sheet - he knows a nationalist, racist regime won't last forever, and having so many enemies will be poor in the long run.
The thing that makes him clever enough is his consistent display of Combat Pragmatism throughout the trilogy. In the first battle, he force-chokes Hitler and freezes him while still rapping. In the second, while he does thaw him out, he makes sure to get him near the Rancor Pit, interrupting Hitler while he's distracted with his verse. And in the third, he avenges Boba by walking up to a ranting Hitler and bisecting him with his lightsaber.
Is he a Bastard? Too much?
Well, he's still working for Palpatine and the Empire, wielding his Stormtroopers, and thanks to him, the Rancor Pit is still in use, even if he only uses it on Hitler. He's also a bit of a Card-Carrying Villain, boasting to Hitler that "Everything that you did, I'm the motherfucker who invented it" while recognising that he is, in fact, an Evil Overlord and seemingly relishing in it.
Despite this, his card-carrying tendencies are played for laughs like everything else in ERB and only adds to his charisma, and even despite this, he is portrayed as A Lighter Shade of Black, which is only fair considering his opponent is fucking Hitler. Unlike Hitler, Vader, as demonstrated in the "Is he Magnificent" section, has multiple redeeming qualities that allow him to come off as the more likeable rapper of the two despite his villainy.
What's the competition like?
Hitler is a Psychopathic Manchild who gets some cool lines of his own, but isn't portrayed as being of any especially low intelligence (in fact, he's actually shown as being somewhat impressive in his ability to defeat the Rancor), just maturity. Despite this, Vader is able to outsmart him on multiple occasions, successfully killing him at the end of the trilogy.
Final verdict?
I'd be more amused than anything if he does get accepted, but I wouldn't have proposed him if I didn't think there was a chance.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Sep 19th 2023 at 11:15:20 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Darth Vader
Ehh... Honestly, sure why not? Weird as it feels to Darth Vader
ERB!Vader
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Haven’t been here a while to Wolfe, Napier, Mason, Kaworu, Somova, and Darth Vader, I’m surprised he doesn’t have more MB versions.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, plus he does have a version that qualifies as a Complete Monster
Edited by LarryT on Sep 19th 2023 at 2:10:03 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Bork ribs with extra beef
Darth Vader. Is… is this, like, the first time he's got an MB version? Seriously, you would think he'd have quite a few by now, right? (In, like, fan works and what-ifs, I meant)
Edited by BlurryDawgo on Sep 19th 2023 at 3:54:34 PM
Sends me into hyperspace, when I see her pretty face…
Not the Eye
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure to Darth Vader.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The one thing that bothers me about ERB!Vader is that all of his evilness from his source material is offscreen here, and the only person we see him targeting here is Hitler who is, well, you know.
But there's also the fact that the reason why he's being put against Hitler in the first place is because they are the two most iconic Evil Overlords in history and fiction, and he does boast a bit about that, so him being evil is important for the videos.
I guess I can give a tentative to ERB!Vader, was always iffy if anyone in this series could qualify, but I think this might just be enough.
Buzz
I have been watching Avatar: The Last Airbender, and I was wondering if Combustion Man could count. He's a Terminator-esque figure in relentless pursuit of Aang, and at one point, uses Toph and Katara as bait to draw him out. He also intercepts a message stating that the Avatar is still alive, and destroys it. I found previous discussions on the show, but Combustion Man was never brought up.
Granted, I still need to finish the third season before I can actually EP him
Edited by Paperfly on Sep 19th 2023 at 11:29:54 AM
Image Pickin' Backlog
to Manga! Gendo and Kaworu (I don't think his anime version arguably being an Unwitting Pawn is really his fault, but the other concern might be that he's not bad enough, especially if we take the idea that Rebuild version has memories of his anime self.)
Also a surprise to Vader
Edited by Orangutans on Sep 19th 2023 at 12:07:10 PM
Amused yes to Vader but in no way is Anime!Kaworu bad enough for this trope.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Looks like Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Mega Man is ready to launch. Proceed?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Goku Black
ERB Vader.
Now I wonder if ERB Caesar could count. He was cool too.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Man in the Yellow Hat
For Ceasar, I don't believe he displayed any feats of intellect onscreen besides arguably deconstructing Shaka Zulu's strategy, which I don't think is enough even for a short video.
He/Him
@Paperfly I agree, Combustion Man sounds like a good pick.
My Adventures with Superman: "Kiss Kiss Fall in Portal": Mr. Mxyzptlk is an interdimensional criminal and self-proclaimed "Chaos God". Escaping capture by the League of Lois Lanes but losing his power-amplifying hat, he approaches Clark and claims to be an interdimensional peacekeeper and that Lois has been kidnapped to trick him into helping him break into the League's teleportation-proof vault, where he steals an access key to the League's headquarters. He arranges for the Lanes to attack Superman to distract them so he can steal their ship and travel to the headquarters. Retrieving his hat and regaining his full power, he starts the headquarters' self-destruct sequence and tries to kill the heroes and the Lanes before Superman, Lois and Jimmy work together to use his portals to steal his hat and incapacitate him. Escaping imprisonment with ease, he visits Lois, whom he has come to respect, and tells her about the evil Supermen on other Earths before leaving her to learn about the Kryptonite shard for herself.
While Combustion Man is clever, I'm not sure how well a Flat Character like him could qualify for being charismatic enough. Evil Is Cool can only take you so far.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Sep 19th 2023 at 9:11:02 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Maybe, but his enigmatic nature could make him interesting, at least in my opinion.
Edited by LarryT on Sep 19th 2023 at 2:11:42 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Caesar
Yes to Vader, don't really think Combustion Man counts, he gets undone by his forehead eye being targeted once, does nothing to make up for this glaring weakness, and winds up dead for it. It feels like a pretty glaring screw-up to literally let the heroes see your weakness, use it against you, then nothing to prevent it from happening again.
I'm taking a very reduced role in this site henceforth so this latest batch was my last one as unofficial curator. Most of y'all know by now how sandboxes and swaps work so whether a new curator steps in or folks just tackle each sandbox on their lonesome, it can be worked out. But I've no passion for it anymore after recent events. I'll keep any write-ups I do put into their proper places on the sandboxes and will do some EPs now and then but besides that I'm stepping back.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I would be willing to do the whole curator thing. If no one else wants to.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Voting in favor for Bullman being the new curator.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aight here's a collab between me and Bull so major thanks there bud!
What is the work?
(Copied from the trope page) Ocean's 11 is the story of a crew of expert thieves as they prepare and execute multiple very difficult heists across several movies without ever threatening anyone with a firearm.
Now we've got Team Leader Danny Ocean up but every mastermind has an equally brilliant right hand man. Meet Rusty, played expertly by Brad Pitt.
Who is Rusty and what has he done?
The suave Danny Ocean's equally suave Number Two, Rusty is introduced being slightly jaded in a club until Danny is released from prison and they meet during a card game. The film film then establishes their dynamic with how naturally they bounce of each other.
- First Film
- When Danny says to him about robbing Terry Benedict's casino vault, Rusty is into it and brings up the recommendations for the team, with Ruben being their financer. They convince him when they bring up the target being Benedict due to Ruben's displeasure at the man. Rusty and Danny both then bring in the crew separately, with one example with Rusty bringing in Basher under the guise of an FBI agent to get him out after he gets caught under a botched heist by exploding the police car he's supposed to be put in.
- During the film's showcase of the heist's plan, it includes both narration from Danny and Rusty so it's clear that they're both formulating it. When Rusty realises that Danny's ex-wife was dating Benedict, he confronts him about the heist being personal for him but still continues on, although he has Linus tail Danny to make sure he doesn't take it too personally. When Danny is marked by Benedict's casino, Rusty has Linus in on the actual heist. Having team member Saul collapse to be a distraction, Rusty arrives as a doctor and declares him deceased.
- When Danny breaks into the vault with Linus, Rusty phones Benedict through a phone pickpocketed into Tess's pocket, showing him how the vault is being purged of it's contents. During the call, Rusty has half of the money held hostage via explosives and that he give up the other half or Benedict will lose it all... except all that was a ruse with Rusty posing as the SWAT leader Benedict calls in to stop the heist in progress which results in the vault being detonated. Despite Benedict eventually realising that it was staged, Rusty and the crew easily leave the casino with the bags full of cash, all of it. Driving the SWAT truck back, the team are able to cash in their winnings of 160 million.
- Second Film
- Rusty ,moving to Italy ,begins a romance with the detective, Isabel Lahiri, while continuing his thieving ways, before ditching when she finds evidence that could lead back to him.
- Starting up a hotel chain, Rusty is brought out of retirement when Benedict comes to collect his money from the group. Coming up with idea to go to Amsterdam in order to get some jobs, Rusty and Danny plan out the theft of the first stock certificate, with Rusty coming up with the solution to the fact that they can't get a proper shot into the window they by using bombs to raise the house a bit.
- When the stock certificate is stolen by the Night Fox first and Isabel steals his phone, Rusty and Danny seek help from the Night Fox's mentor, Le Marque, which leads to them making a bet with the Night Fox to see who can steal the Faberge egg first, while they had already stole it before going and replaced it with a fake.
- What follows is the group acting like everything is going wrong and allowing themselves to be captured, with Rusty using it to win Isabella back and taking her to meet her father, Le Marque, while also giving the egg Le Marque.
- Third film
- Rusty is first seen almost breaking into a vault with a team he has when he's informed about team friend Ruben almost dying after he had a heart attack due to being backstabbed by casino owner and all round dick, Willie Bank. After Bank smugly denies Ruben part of the casino to Danny, the team decide they're going to rob the man as revenge.
- To ruin Bank's diamond award streak of best hotel, Rusty talks to the concierge of the casino Debbie, looping her in their scheme with the promise of a more prosperous job. Said scheme? To make the V.U.P who's to review the casino/hotel's stay a living nightmare.
- To get a camera into Bank's office, Rusty goes in under the guise of a scientist with warnings of a potential earthquake and has a camera placed within a seismograph to give to Bank. When Bank states he doesn't want it on his desk, Rusty retorts that if a earthquake was to destroy the hotel and kill everyone within, Bank would be the one to blame ergo his ego wounded.
- Along with Danny, Rusty heads into the room the V.U.P is to stay in and contaminates the room with various things such as mould, stains and bedbugs under the appearance of cleaners.
- Rusty appears after a worker sends the V.U.P to a specific restaurant to food poison him by arriving behind him and sliding a wad of cash into his pocket.
- When the team think there's no way to bribe the casino's elevator guard, Rusty later reveals to Danny that he's found out that the guard's kid is a "mini hitler"—with him later going in under the guise as a guard to take the guy's position.
- Rusty then rigs a major prize machine to let a random player win it so it seems like a natural winning due to Bank's AI that is an active security system to read people's emotions on whether their reactions are genuine.
- When the team's fake earthquake (which ended up becoming a real one) is triggered, Bank's team is forced to take the emergency procedure that Rusty provided earlier, forcing all of the players out so they won't be tempted to return and continue gambling, costing Bank half a billion.
- Rusty's last notable act is he leaves a rigged machine for the V.U.P as a major Pet the Dog to let the guy earn 11 million dollars, with Rusty walking off with a smile on his face.
Is he Magnificent?
Rusty oozes charm and charisma with Brad Pitt's and George Clooney's dynamic being a joy to watch so that quota's checked there. Rusty is Danny's Number Two and it shows, when Danny explains a plan, Rusty is also explaining and is responsible for his own schemes so that's another quota ticked—with him being hands on with the schemes as well.
Is he a bastard?
He's in a crew of heist members so that's bastardy enough. He's fine with blackmail and whatnot so he's pushing it while never being a dick and has some Pet The Dog moments (such as giving the V.U.P the 11 mil after the hell the team put him through.)
Final Verdict?
What say we?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
kaworu and gendo
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."