Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The wifi here sucks
My issue is that almost every other keeper has double digit bodycounts or attempted bodycounts and I'm not sure if the sexual abuse is enough to make up for that difference especially since there are rapists in the shows outside of SVU
Cut Bingham. ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Cut him too
Edited by papyru30 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 12:32:55 PM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Got another cut for the moment.
From Kushiel's Legacy, The Mahrkagir is listed. Now, the Mahrkagir is a vicious, horrible tyrant who runs a religion of death and destruction. He's a rapist responsible for countless acts of torture and his deeds consist of quite literally forcing a kid to try to swallow him pissing in his mouth with a threat to rape and murder a girl in his harem the poor kid is close to.
The issue is, the Mahrkagir was traumatized as a child by the death of his family. While the sympathy for him is filtered through the admittedly biased POV of the heroine Phedre (who seduces him to rescue said kid, and being a literally supernatural masochist is all that allows her to survive his harem) who cannot forget the glimpses to his innocent youth...the Mahrkagir genuinely loves Phedre as much as he can love someone. While he regularly brutalizes her, Phedre realizes this is literally the only way he knows how to show affection and while he wants to sacrifice her, he again thinks this is the highest honor he can bestow. She even notes killing him wouldn't have been possible if he hadn't let his guard down over said feelings for her.
The Mahrkagir is a twisted, horrific villain, but he's not this trope.
I'd say cut him.
Also, after reading over The Legend of Luke, I think Vilu Daskar might have a moment that discounts him. When he's investigating thefts aboard his ship, he discovers that some of his crew have stolen the belongings of their shipmates. He orders all the stolen property returned to the rightful owners, then punishes the thieves before warning them not to repeat this behavior in future. While he might just be angry that any kind of thieving is happening on his ship, Vilu's dialogue in this scene ("I know you are not the thieves I seek... However, you are still guilty of stealing from your shipmates and therefore must be punished.") still suggests that he genuinely objects to his crew being robbed despite it not affecting him personally, and he ensures that all the stolen property is returned to the owners rather than try to take any for himself.
Also, while their punishment- being whipped and then having the wounds washed with salt water- is harsh, it's not portrayed as undeserved, as two of the heroes who witness it say they had it coming and it will teach them a lesson about stealing.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:41:50 PM
That's not redeeming at all. Vilu threatens his crew (or hurts them) at the drop of a hat. The issue is he's a captain in a limited space and has to keep discipline on his ship to make sure the crew stays orderly.
Keep Vilu
Cut Bingham and Mahnkagir
Unsure on Tommy
Not the Eye
Cut Bingham and Mahrkagir
Keep Vilu
Abstain on Tommy.
RIP Toriyama
Cut Mahrkagir, Keep Vilu, and ehhh I'll lean keep on Tommy but it's light atm.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cut Bing, and Mahrkagir
Keep Vilu
Don't know on Tommy
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Bye
Cut Bingham, Mahrkagir
Keep Vilu
I'll chime in with a cut on Tommy. Pap's arguments and the fact that I think the universes while somewhat separate are still connected enough is enough for me.
Keep Vilu. That sounds like textbook Pragmatic Villainy under the circumstances, and not the type that's too pragmatic.
Edited by jjjj2 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:09:09 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Cut Mahrk and Bing, but Keep Tom and Vi.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Aug 3rd 2023 at 11:01:59 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Geeze things sped up.
Rewrites look good.
Bingham and Mahrkagir seem like cuts.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lucas the Dreamer
I don’t agree that a tragic backstory should factor into a villain qualifying unless it’s a case where the trauma is meant to make them a Tragic Villain (namely I don’t think it should factor into Dr. Sophia Lamb not qualifying). Mahrkigir is such a case so Cut.
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
Found a grammar error in one of the entries in Dragon Age:
I believe it supposed to be "Chantry".
Also, in the main game Marjolaine only appeared in the quest "Leliana's Past", maybe it should be put in the entry, since she only appeared in one quest in the main game, which can be easily missed, if the player's relationship level with Leliana isn't high enough.
Also, something i wanted to talk about, in Dragon Age II, Danarius is exclusive to Fenris' companion quests ("Bait and Switch", "A Bitter Pill" and "Alone", and among those he only appears in person in "Alone" quest, in the others he is only mentioned), while Ser Otto Alrik is exclusive to "Dissent" quest, can this also be applied to their entries?
Like:
Takes for pointing out the spelling error in Marjolaine's entry and I'm ambivalent about listing what quests the bad guys show up in
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
My point that all of these villains only appear in quests that can be missed and are not plot relevant (the ones, which you must proceed through), which is why i ask if the quests, where they have appeared should be put in their entries.
A nice swimmer
I put the rewrites of those two in the sandbox and i'm gonna go ahead and replace these as the ones in the YMMV page of Three Houses, the only one left would be the one for Ace Attorney.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Goku Black
Cut blood spider and, Mahrkagir
Keep Vilu Deskar.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I don't think the final sentence of Solon's rewrite is necessary, it's just a vague reference about his willingness to sacrifice his own men's lives and he's a CM, without an example I don't feel it adds anything.
Cut Blood Spider and Mahrkagir.
Leaning keep for Tommy.
resident girlfail
Keep Vilu, as someone who's rear the book it's definently a case of Pragmatic Villainy.
A nice swimmer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So, shall i add that he used Kronya's heart to imprision Byleth?
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:14:30 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Cut Blood Spider and Mahnkagir, keep Vilu and Tommy.
Guess I gotta go edit Bingham's character folder.
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Okay, so this rewrite I stumbled on is clearly unapproved, but it did make me laugh.
FernGully: The Last Rainforest
- Complete Monster: Hexxus stands in contrast to such a lighthearted setting. In the past, Hexxus caused a the Mount Warning/Tweed Volcano area to erupt like a volcano and destroy anything it touched, killing "many lives" among people and creatures in FernGully; this would also cause a majority of the humans to flee in terror and never return. Hexxus was finally defeated by the fairy priestess Magi Lune, but is released during the events of the film and manipulates the humans running a logging machine into heading towards FernGully so he can get revenge on the fairies for his imprisonment. Hexxus plans to pollute the entire world while stating some, at-best, slightly cartoonish threats against life in his Villain Song, while at high risk for killing millions in the process while he can rule over the world and set up lots of shopping malls in a Polluted Wasteland.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:46:15 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Okay, so i added a line on Thales' Monster page entry and YMMV Solon's entry a bit to have them rewrote on both pages as these.
Also, last rewrite for Jezaille Brett, but i would like to delete the spoilered out part:
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:29:30 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.