We have determined that Lets Players are not inherently tropable. They need to provide some sort of narrative, characters, and story to be allowed on this wiki. This applies to Vtubers just as much as other content creators, but Kayfabe makes the distinction between streamer and character particularly fuzzy.
The purpose of the thread is to remove tropes from pages concerning Vtubers that apply only to the actor rather than the character.
- If there is not a clear separation between the character and the actor, we assume that it is the actor represented, and thus they are not tropable.
- In other words, it is up to the user writing the example to show that it pertains to the character and not the actor.
- Regardless, the content they produce must meet our standards for Web Video, meaning substantial original and/or transformative material.
- A vlog, review, or Let's Play does not become tropable just because the person doing it has an anime avatar.
More details in this post
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For our full policy, visit our Administrivia page on Real Life Troping.
PLEASE do not argue over the guidelines here. We've been through that argument too many times and it slows the cleanup effort down. Asking if some grey area meets the guidelines is okay. Arguing that the guidelines should be changed are not. If you would like to discuss the guidelines, go to the Real-Person Troping Policy thread
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Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 12th 2022 at 4:58:06 AM
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That would be overkill IMO, unless it's a page that has been fully cleaned by the thread then it could be linked like Gura's
RJ Savoy
Regarding Tomboy and Girly Girl, Kiara has said she played up the contrast between her and Calliope to make them more shippable (in that the routine consisted of her suggesting they do things and being brushed off) and then downplayed it so it wouldn't define their characters. It can be seen in the hololive Alternative 2nd teaser, from 0:36.
That said I don't know if Tomboy and Girly Girl is the right trope for this contrast, while Calliope is certainly tomboyish, in this pairing she's the one who is easily embarrassed and Kiara is daring and forward, hardly a girly trait. It's mostly an introvert/extravert thing.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
I've seen shy tomboys and advancing girly girls in fiction, especially common with Tomboy with a Girly Streak and Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak.
RJ Savoy
This is on Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant:
- hololive's Nanashi Mumei of Hololive EN Generation 2 is this by accident. She could draw several cute pictures before going into a picture that other audience members describe as "a Sleep Paralysis Demon come to life." Her first and most iconic "cursed" picture (that has since become one of her membership emotes) started out as a portrait of Suisei Hoshimachi before turning into a nightmarish creature with rows of fangs and glowing red eyes.
"is this by accident" is redundant, the whole point of the trope is that the character isn't trying to be scary, and she actually fits to a T the very first sentence of the description. (Much of the problem is that the description is rather vague, describing typical traits instead of defining the trope.) I suggest rewriting it to:
- hololive's Nanashi Mumei was regarded by fans and colleagues as The Cutie of her generation, but her "cursed" pictures have given her the image of a cutie with a barely hidden darkness inside. The first of these pictures (which has become an iconic emote linked to her) was a portrait of Suisei Hoshimachi that turned into a Nightmare Face bared fangs and glowing red eyes. Her debut in hololive no graffiti plays into this, contrasting her cute speech and mannerisms with sudden outbursts of violence and wiping out civilisation.
Edited by Reymma on Aug 29th 2023 at 7:12:26 PM
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
the Retromancer
I mean that's how ZCE should be fixed in general.
RJ Savoy
Well, it isn't zero-context, there would be enough context in any narrative medium. But "is this" is either insufficient or redundant in examples, and "by accident" seems like a misunderstanding of the trope (it has to be unintentional). And I thought the hologra episode would make the case stronger.
Chronic lore addict
It seems like Hololive's main page has had more violating examples trickle in since it was last pruned. I took the liberty of deleting one very flagrant example (a Fancy Toilet Awe example with Gura and co.) and adding a warning to the page source with a link to this thread, but there's still some more examples I want to run by real quick before cutting. A lot more, it would seem like.
- Cast Full of Gay: A majority of idols tend to show lesbian, or at least bisexual tendencies, albeit with some purely straight exceptions, such as Noel. This is especially notable with idols such as Miko, Matsuri, Korone, and La+, whose lust for girls tend to be defining attributes. Discusses the sexuality of the talents, including those who have no evidence for this applying in-universe and therefore treads into IRL
- Creator Backlash: Concerns debut reactions. It seems like this belongs in trivia, as said reactions are candid, and being funny is irrelevant in that regard.
- Cuteness Proximity: stream moments
- Genki Girl: Plenty of the girls are noticeably very cheerful and energetic, regardless of whether they're playing video games or doing something else entirely. Commented out as if it were a standard ZCE or PCE, but would need a rewrite to be about their fictional portrayals.
- Incorruptible Pure Pureness:
- Some of the more innocent idols are friendlier than others, and they are often contrasted by their Axe-Crazy generational partners, and is most likely the Only Sane Man. While they may be Not So Above It All, they don't do things that may be deem too crazy. Could use a rewrite to concern scripted content only
- Suisei is one of the notable Zigzagged idols in the group. She dislikes Rule 34 fan art, but she never aims to be a traditional "seiso" idols in the industry, like how Sora is. She wants to be an idol for her own benefit as it is her dream to be one. First part should be in trivia under the pre-existing Rule 34 – Creator Reactions bullet
- Innocent Swearing: First and fourth bullets need to go, they concern normal streams only
- Mass "Oh, Crap!": The moment Sora innocently uttered "Motherfucker" on Coco's weekly Reddit shitpost review is the moment Coco, the chat and (probably) the staff started panicking, with everyone jokingly declaring YAGOO's dream as officially dead. Concerns a candid reaction from chat, and might not count for a regular Oh, Crap! from Coco due to being similarly candid
- Percussive Therapy: A lot of the members will hit their desks in moments of frustration or when made fun of. Translator & clippers have their own running joke of adding a "losing hitpoints" effect to their videos when this happens. Concerns candid stream moments plus fanmade content
- Secret Identity: Like other major VTuber groups, official communications from the VTubers take great care to prevent possible leaks on the alternate online identities or real life identities of the people who play the characters. note Despite this, there are instances of performers being identified while off-camera through happenstance (friends and family discovering them or fans hearing them speak). Such interaction has been noted to be an appreciative but minor annoyance at best. Concerns the meta topic of "past lives" and people who know their identities.
- Unaffected by Spice: The Indonesian girls, relative to everyone else, have the reputation of being extremely resistant to all sorts of spicy foods, especially Moona who is known to bring her own spices when she travels. Even Reine, who is said to have the lowest spice tolerance of all ID members, still manages to baffle Subaru by comfortably eating spicy rice crackers and curry that the latter struggles with. definitely not scripted, not just because this is streaming, but also because as an Indonesian, we're generally like that IRL too
I think the girls-on-girls action is just a bit that they play on-stream rather than what they are IRL.
It may be, but we can't assume that without proof.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Right, we need to err on the side of "assume it's real life" because otherwise we can very easily make the mistake of troping real people.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Its also worth noting that alot of that is fans interpreting their words and actions as gay rather than them being explicitly confirmed as such IRL or otherwise.
Like im pretty sure miko is a confirmed lesbian IRL, but other than her I don't think any of them have talked about sexuality.
Alright, now that the dust has settled and the grief period is over, it's time to take a look at Magni and Vesper's graduation entry on TearJerker.Hololive:
- On August 24th, 2023, it was announced that Magni and Vesper would be graduating at the end of the month. What doesn't help matters is that both were on a month-long hiatus beforehand, which left several fans both worried and hopeful they would eventually return, though it ultimately ended with the worst-case scenario of both of them retiring, and neither of them held graduation streams in accordance with their wishes.
- Many viewers have also pointed out how Vesper's untimely graduation would mark the second time within the span of a year where a talent designed by Pako has had their career ending prematurely, after Sana's retirement in 2022. The immediate sentiment was one of sympathy towards the artist, especially so given Pako's immense support of Hololive and its idols, not helped by how recent Vesper's redesign was as of his graduation, such that he only managed to use the 2.0 model all of twice, including the reveal stream. That's overthinking about Pako.
- Like NePoLaBo with Aloe and Hololive Fantasy with Rushia, the remaining members of Tempus did a guerilla stream on Axel's channel to discuss their thoughts about the news. All six boys sound dejected and heartbroken, with Axel, Bettel and Flayon lacking their usual high energy and Hakka sounding like he's on the verge of tears. This was the the original sub-bullet that didn't need to get deleted.
- The news makes a conversation Magni had with Calli a lot Harsher in Hindsight: at the end of their watchalong of the HOLOSTARS 2nd Act concert, Magni expressed worry about him and the rest of Tempus inevitably performing onstage in the future, not wanting to screw up and fail to meet the high expectations of his fans, but Calli reassured him that they would support him no matter what and told him not to let the expectations get to him. Along with Vesper, Magni ultimately didn't get the opportunity to perform onstage. Should mostly be relegated to Harsher in Hindsight on the YMMV page.
- Having the gimmick of a guild, imagine half of the founders who are no more with them. "TEMPUS Headquarters have never been so empty" feels so fitting in a lonely way. Putting "Imagine" is a surefire way to delete a speculative entry.
- Even the Holostars JP members were saddened by the news particularly, Astel who laments that he wished Magni and Vesper could stay longer so he can see them and the other two boys of Tempus HQ perform onstage in the future. The announcement also made him remember Kira and wished he came back to Holostars.
the Retromancer
Agree overall
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Takamori (Calli x Kiara) was confirmed to be a bit on stream, but that's the only one we know is an act right now.
BaeRyS is 100% an act too, to the point where both girls don't seem to care for it anymore
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I wasn't even aware it was under Ho Yay. There's quite a few marriage/divorce tropes like Slap-Slap-Kiss and Amicable Exes listed for them.
Edited by Snowy66 on Sep 4th 2023 at 9:33:12 AM
RJ Savoy
They arranged a marriage in Minecraft and shortly afterwards a divorce. Whatever their real feelings, they were clearly playing it up.
However, since they recognised it as a marriage, doesn't that put it beyond Ho Yay and Homoerotic Subtext and into Ship Tease? (I have long felt those three have unclear boundaries and should be merged together.)
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 4th 2023 at 12:34:00 PM
Is Baerys "they've explicitly confirmed it's a bit", or "it's almost certainly a bit, but the possibility of it being real hasn't been ruled out"?
If they got married, wouldn't that elevate it into Official Couple, or would the subsequent divorce annul that?
A divorce would nullify it, especially if it happens in a very short time. Like Millie Parfait marrying and divorcing iPN within 15 minutes.
If the marriage is supposed to be a gag and they got divorce soon after, then official couple shouldn't apply.
Is there a trope that would apply?
the Retromancer
In light of Hololive DEV_IS's ReGLOSS suffering from a major YouTube subscriber culling, the following Walking Techbane sub-bullet in Characters.Hololive English Generation Two Council needs to be done away with:
This reads more like trivia, as it pertains to YouTube's wonky algorithm and something very much out of hololive's control.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
the Retromancer
That's just misuse and not describing the content anyway.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
the Retromancer
This example at Virtual Youtuber has been collecting cases that aren't common to the genre and I think needs to be cleared up.
- Idol Singer: There are some similarities between certain VTubers (especially Japanese performers with a focus on singing) and more traditional idols, and some shared terms (such as "graduation" for when a VTuber discontinues performing), but overall the connection is weak. Over time it has become more of a joke that Vtubers are suppose to be Idol like or seiso (wholesome/pure) then actually being seiso.
- hololive in particular started off advertising itself as a group of "virtual idols" and expected talent to behave accordingly (idol culture in Japan is very restrictive of their behaviour in public). But this stance weakened when they found their talents were attracting more viewers when given freedom to perform, and it is difficult to keep up an immaculate image when talking for hours on end in any event. Even more so after Western and Indonesian talents and fans who weren't as tied in to the subculture starts to flock in to the agency.
- One remnant of idol culture, amongst Japanese VTubers at least, is a reticence by female performers to do collabs with their male counterparts. Most fans couldn't care less, but there have been times where such a collab has resulted in some backlash from certain fans. Hololive no longer bans such collabs, but they still don't occur very often between their Japanese talents. It is also rare for mainstream VTubers to discuss openly any romantic relationships they have even if they are quite open about their real family or friendships.
- As noted above, due to Values Dissonance, English and Indonesian talents are for the most part exempt from the reticence and often does collabs with their male counterparts. However, some English talents like Kiara Takanashi still declines to do collabs with male talents altogether while Ouro Kronii receives significant amount of backlash for her collabs with Holostars members.
- There are groups that are explicitly intended to be virtual idols, such as GEMS COMPANY.
- Inverted by Japanese idol singer and gravure model Nagi Nemoto: after suffering a massive physical and mental breakdown and graduating from her units, she decided to forgo in-person appearances and become a full-time VTuber (that she herself designed), turning her personal channel into a hub for her streams. However, she is slowly recovering and has decided to alternate between her virtual persona and her real self for the time being.
