Needs Help: Date Crepe

Date Crêpe is a trope about couples eating crepes when they go on a date. However, the trope has several problems. First off, the name is a tasteless rape pun. This has been brought up before, in at least one previous TRS thread and in the discussion tab. The fact that this trope was indexed under Just For Pun at one point, and this comment from its initial TLP:

indicate that this was entirely intentional.

I mentioned that the discussion tab was concerned about this name. One comment in particular caught my eye:

I was intrigued by this comment, since it brought up duplication concerns. Indeed, Sweetheart Sipping is about couples drinking something together to show affection, while Date Crêpe is about couples eating crepes together to show affection. In other words, they are the same trope with one small difference. (Spaghetti Kiss, for the record, is in my opinion more tropeworthy since it is used as a specific homage to Lady and the Tramp.) I decided to do a wick check to see what kinds of use this trope got. The quick results were as follows:

• 15/42 of examples were correct with context, or 35.71%
• 8/42 examples were ZCEs, or 19.05%
• 7/42 examples were misused, or 16.67%, and
• 14/42 examples were unclassifiable, or 33.33%

In total, not counting unclassifiable wicks, that's

• 35.71% correct wicks
• 35.71% incorrect wicks

Worth noting that some of the incorrect wicks used this trope as "crepes exist". Also worth noting that, not counting unclassifiable wicks, that's 33 wicks total, which counts as "standing" according to Wick. Not "starving", but not great.

Now, the aforementioned previous TRS thread mentioned that eating crepes on a date is a legitimate trope in Japan. However, I question that logic—while it may be a part of Japanese culture, is it a trope? Does a couple eating crepes affect the plot any more significantly than a couple drinking a malt? Just because it's a different food doesn't mean it's a different trope, in my opinion.

As for what to do here, MacronNotes suggested in the TRS meta thread that this trope and Sweetheart Sipping could be merged and the latter could be broadened and renamed to include both food and drink. I am inclined to agree with that suggestion, unless a different one is made. What does everyone else think?

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Opening.

A three way merge between Date Crêpe, Sweet Heart Sipping and Spaghetti Kiss was also suggested in the TRS general thread. I am fine with doing that if Spaghetti Kiss is found to not be distinct enough as a parody/reference trope. I think it should stay separate though as it seems distinct enough to me.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 2nd 2022 at 8:19:12 AM

Macron's notes

I think all three should be merged.

Edit: I tagged all three tropes since they're all being discussed here.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 2nd 2022 at 7:36:19 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I'm good with merging/broadening, probably add a rename to factor in the expansion.

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Yeah, I neglected to mention that I also think we should choose a new name if we do any sort of merge.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

As I said in the main TRS thread, I think all 3 should be merged. Widely acknowledged cultural practices that are used to convey something specific, like what Date Crêpe tries to capture, are tropes.

For example, a female character throwing a quinceanera is a valid trope to me if the emphasis is on the party as a "coming of age" ceremony to highlight the symbolic transition of a young person "becoming" an adult and it plays into those themes in the narrative. That said, I would not want separate trope pages for quinceaneras, bat/bar mitzvahs, confirmations, and other "becoming an adult" ceremony tropes despite the cultural specificities between them since they all will have the same function in the narrative.

Edited by amathieu13 on Feb 2nd 2022 at 9:23:18 AM

Is Spaghetti Kiss an actual kiss instead of the other twos' Indirect Kiss?

Or I guess they're all Indirect Kiss sub-tropes but Spaghetti Kiss is the easiest to turn into an Accidental Kiss?

...

Spaghetti Kiss's Laconic mentions Accidental Kiss at least...

Edited by Malady on Feb 2nd 2022 at 6:16:45 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

I'd say we should have a page for the Lady and the Tramp shoutout (if we haven't already), as one of the Stock Parodies.

Other than that, yeah merge the lot.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

I support merging all three into a Food Of Love trope.

- What relation to Through His Stomach? I guess it's more of an Index than anything else, the fusion of Food Tropes and Love Tropes in a physical (food) object??

I guess your idea just needs a Clearer, more specific, name.

Edited by Malady on Feb 2nd 2022 at 7:45:47 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

I think that Through His Stomach is about cooking for someone whereas the trope here is about eating with someone. Different connotations.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

I think Spaghetti Kiss is distinct. It is more about the parody/inherent contrivance of chewing on the same strand of pasta than it is about a romantic date per se.

to merging Date Crêpe and Sweetheart Sipping.

Yeah, I think Spaghetti Kiss should be left alone for those reasons.

As for a new name for Sweetheart Sipping + Date Crêpe, maybe Romantic Food Sharing (probably too clunky)?

Macron's notes

Merge the three. I don't mind things being a bit racy, but that title just wanted to be racy for the hell of it when there's no need to.

1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)

Maybe Lovers Lunch would work for a merged trope (custom titled to "Lovers' Lunch").

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I have an issue with that; where are tropers likely to put a romantic spaghetti dinner, when the characters don't eat from the same strand? I predict that the trope would attract such misuse.

A quick informal check provides the following wicks:

• AdventureTime.Tropes S To Z: Happens with Little Finn and Little Flame Princess when Finn gives them a cookie to share in "All the Little People". [ "this happens" ZCE, implies kiss while eating a cookie together]
• Animation.Pucca: Done with Pucca and Garu in "Noodle Round the World" with the world's longest noodle. ["this happens" ZCE, presumably does kiss with a single noodle]
• Anime.Lady Jewelpet: Momona and Cayenne with a hot-dog in episode 15.
• Characters.DCEU Creatures (Bruce): Harley shares a twizzler with him, in Lady and the Tramp fashion.
• Characters.Jurassic Park Other (Eddie Carr): He's the spaghetti for the T. rex couple.
• Clarence.Tropes N To Z:
  • In "The Forgotten", Clarence finds spaghetti in the dumpster and asks Brady to eat it with him "like dogs do".
  • In "Belson Has a Girlfriend", Clarence tries to make Belson and his girlfriend eat a slice of pizza together like this.
• ComicBook.Angry Birds Comics Game Play: Defied, it looks like this will happen between a pig and Matilda, but as soon as Matilda blinks it's revealed that the pig simply wanted to steal her hat.
• ComicBook.Associated Student Bodies: Parodied with Daniel and Marcus in the bonus art on Issue 3's fan mail page, complete with the same Italian cafe and outdoor table setting.
• ComicBook.Jommeke: Done by two dogs near the end of the album Tobias Snuffel.
• ComicStrip.Zits: Sickeningly Sweethearts Richandamy eat spaghetti for lunch every day for exactly this reason.

---

Okay, this is definitely a ZCE magnet, with editors generally giving "this happens here" rather than the details. The only example that goes to the concern that I expressed is the last one, where it is unclear if Rich and Amy are successful with invoking the trope where they "accidentally kiss" while chewing. The Angry Birds example is just useless to determine if they are currently eating the same strand of noodle or not.

If an editor adds "Alice and Bob have a romantic spaghetti dinner together where they kiss", we don't have the context for determining if they "accidentally kiss" while chewing or not. These ten wicks show a very weak case for editors misusing the trope, but a reasonably strong case that we will have unclear ZCE which don't elaborate on what is happening in the work.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Merge Date Crêpe and Sweetheart Sipping into a "Lovers Lunch"/"Romantic Food Sharing" trope.

Keep Spaghetti Kiss distinct (contrivance of taking the same strand of spaghetti on a plate of spaghetti + stock shout-out + leads to kiss), make a subtrope of the above couple sharing a food/drink item trope.

Edit: Or... if the actual spaghetti strand thing is so rare and only attracts misuse/ZCE, maybe do fold it into Date Crêpe + Sweetheart Sipping and add the good ones to Lady and the Tramp referenced by/Stock Shout-Out page.

Edited by Tabs on Feb 2nd 2022 at 9:50:09 AM

Huh, so some examples don't even involve spaghetti at all.

I stand by my vote to merge all three of the tropes that came up in this thread instead of just Date Crêpe and Sweetheart Sipping.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 2nd 2022 at 11:52:22 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Fair point, but then again, Spaghetti Kiss being a 12-year-old page (ie. from the wild west whatever-ZCE phase) is a confounding factor.

Same

I think it's worth yarding at least, if nobody wants to take it to TLP. I think it's one of those tropes that characters sometimes try to invoke, though I can't remember any examples now.

I feel like Spaghetti Kiss is one of those moment-specific Shout Outs that is so common and specific, that it is trope-worthy on its own, kind of like "Lion King" Lift and "Risky Business" Dance. However, it should definitely be purged of ZCEs and anything else that is not a specific reference to the original scene.

I think spaghetti kiss is worth keeping provided it's cleaned and tightened up. Merge sweetheart shipping and...the other one, though

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

the issue is that as currently written Spaghetti Kiss isn't just a Shout-Out trope. it uses the reference as the jumping point but also includes any time two characters share a food item in a romantic setting regardless of whether or not it's a parody of the lady and the tramp.

the list of ZCE kind of points to this but as does the description which includes Japanese people using pocky as a version of this trope. to be clear, while two people holding a pocky stick between their mouths and eating the ends until they get closer is a thing that happens in Japan, it's by no means a parody of the film scene, and is often done like a version of the game chicken or "the nervous game"

That's why I think it should be merged with the other two.

ETA: Spark 9's proposed solution would be fine by me, too.

Edited by amathieu13 on Feb 2nd 2022 at 2:15:17 PM

I don't really have a problem with the title since I'm used to this kind of humor and generally don't approve of seeing names as bad due to Values Dissonance for Black Comedy, but merge this with Sweetheart Sipping as that's an issue. Indifferent on Spaghetti Kiss, sounds like it's a trope by its own but I can see the other arguments.

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 2nd 2022 at 8:17:35 PM

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