has made a decision that all articles in the Let's Play namespace (list of pages in that namespace) should be moved to other namespaces.
Since let's plays are usually video-based, the target namespace is usually WebVideo/. However, some are text-based, and the consensus was to handle the namspacing of those on a case-by-case basis, with Blog/, Fanfic/, and Literature/ brought up as potential targets.
Before any given article is transplanted, we should confirm that it meets the standards for being a TV Tropes work article. Note that these often serve as hybrid articles for their creators in much the same way as the Music namespace. If there is insufficient content, the articles end up becoming about the creators, violating our "no troping real people" policy.
The crucial question is whether the article has any tropable, creative content. This means that it's more than just "Alisha plays games and makes faces." What counts as tropable, creative content? Here are some examples.
- Creating a fictional/roleplaying narrative that is distinct from the game being played or the real person doing the LP.
- Using the game as a medium to craft original content: songs, videos, machinima, and so on.
- "MST'ing" or creatively riffing on the game's content, as long as it's sufficiently transformative.
What are not criteria for a tropable Let's Play by themselves?
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Note that the same general principles apply to any Web Video creator, especially those whose main work is in news, reviews, vlogging, and/or reaction videos.
There are a few outliers that will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
- After-Action Report: I would move it to literature, although it could be considered fanfic.
- Liveblogs, which are probably not tropable.
Web Video cleanup sandbox
This project has several purposes related to all things Web Video:
- Cleaning up the WebVideo index
- Cleaning up the WebVideo/ namespace to move pages that belong elsewhere
- Cleaning up individual Web Video pages that have massive issues
Overview
The easy-seeming part when I started on Web Video (the index) was just removing things not even located in the namespace— found in Creator, Film, Web Animation, etc. Then I started noticing there were many things put in Web Video (the namespace) that were basically Creator pages, lots of Let's Play, other video game streaming that doesn't currently have an index, other misuses in index and/or namespace placement...
- original live action, meaning not animated or reusing existing footage;
- narrative/creative, a bit unclear, but it's not someone simply reviewing another work/reacting to other works/playing through another work;
- a work, which is... a work, not a creator.
) is much more broad:
"Live-action videos and video-based Lets Plays originally or only released online. Covers both YouTube videos and web-exclusive series, but does not include those that belong in the WebAnimation/ namespace. For big-budget series exclusive to streaming services such as Netflix, use Series/ or the appropriate animation namespace instead." — Not limited to original or live action footage, narrative works, etc. However, people have mistakenly created Web Animation pages in this namespace, made what are essentially creator pages, typed it as "Webvideo", etc.
:
Reaction channels tend to straddle a line here, but are not generally tropable unless they create some sort of distinct creative endeavor rather than stare at a video and laugh a bit. Also it helps if they are reacting to fiction, not to real life. The latter may be entertaining but falls into the same general category as gossip. We can trope these only for their use of production and artistic tropes, not for their topics.
-
No Analysis Channel index— corrected! - No index for non-Let's Play video game streaming unless they're on Twitch. If they don't fall into the Let's Play format and aren't on Twitch, where do they go?
- No
Gag Dub orGag Sub index - Where should we put channels based on prank calls, scam-baiting, other audio-based things where the video is incidental?
Pages identified for cleanup:
- A Dose of Buckley — see this ATT for more info
- The Mysterious Mr. Enter and subpages — issues include troping the creator and not the works
- The Nostalgia Critic and subpages — see this project thread
- Smosh and subpages — Smosh is a channel, and the pages have multiple works (may need a hard split)
- Thomas Sanders — Creator, lots of biographical details, previously hard split for Sanders Sides but may need another
See also:
- Cleanup: Review/Let's Play YMMV Tropes
- TLP: Actual Play genre/index
Just the index cleanup itself is a considerable project, figuring out what stays and what needs a different index, but there are also many pages with significant issues to clean. This is a very big project, but I've seen other people notice these issues, too. I hope we can at least get the index under control.
(![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
For clarity and re: review stuff. Continue to edit as things occur that are useful to keep at the top of the thread.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:02:00 AM
I'd have to agree with everyone else. It looks like a page that some friend wrote up as a joke and it doesn't have any actual material that's keepable on it.
he/him
I'll give it a day for dissenting views, but sounds like it's bound for the cut list...
Edit: Cut list it is.
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 27th 2023 at 11:54:22 AM
I know we've identified cleanup concerns for Mau Ler but since The Critical Drinker page got cut then... well, they're the exact same kind of content creator and they have the exact same kind of page, every trope is just "Mauler thinks this, in his review then Mauler expresses a dislike of this trope, in Mauler's opinion then this character is an example of this trope," there's... not really a lot there. Well, quality-wise there's not a lot, quantity-wise he has a larger page and more sub-pages than The Critical Drinker, but I don't see any difference between the two that would explain why we would cut one and keep the other.
I agree that MauLer's content is not tropable. I'm perfectly happy voting to cut it.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I agree that we should cut MauLer due to not feeling that his content is tropable.
Also is The Cosmonaut Variety Hour really tropable?
Edited by Bullman on Sep 30th 2023 at 3:38:42 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
He/Him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
MauLer's gags are probably the only thing tropable, but those don't occur that much. I'm fine with cutting him, cause unlike the Drinker (who at least played a character so I voted to keep him until consensus won out to cut him), MauLer in his videos doesn't seem to be an exaggeration of his real life self or him playing a character. Watching his livestreams, you can tell his personality is very much the same as in his videos, just without a script.
At least with the Drinker, it's apparent that Will Jordan acts and talks in a different way than the Scottish drunkard in the videos.
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I still don't think you can call the Drinker a character because he is still just saying Will's opinions just in a funny voice but that debate has already been had. At the very least it was more than what MauLer does from what I can tell.
Also, looking at The Cosmonaut Variety Hour their (mostly Marcus') opinions. Like due they do skits or have exaggerated characteristics that would be tropable. I have never watched these guys.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 30th 2023 at 5:55:20 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
He/Him
Honestly, Meghan with her "Sleepy Time With Meghan" series probably has the most tropable content on the channel. But even that is just Meghan putting on a drowsy voice with playing games.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Sep 30th 2023 at 11:11:25 AM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
(he/any)
Taking a whack at the list, here's some Let's Play pages that I think are very obviously tropable and are good to be moved if there's no disagreement:
- Afterlife SMP - Has a lot of tropable worldbuilding.
- Empires SMP - Explicitly fictional roleplay series.
- Flux Buddies - "Flux Buddies sets itself apart from many other Let's Play style series by having an original plot whose threads are consistently visited."
- Hermitcraft Server - When moving, can we please chop off "Server"? There's no reason it should be here.
- Ivorycello - Minecraft prison escapes, there's a lot to trope here.
- Life SMP - Gameplay mechanics are tropable on top of the typical SMP tropability.
- Mianite - Explicitly fictional roleplay series.
- New Life SMP - Has a lot of tropable worldbuilding.
- Origins SMP - Has a lot of tropable worldbuilding.
- Pirates SMP - Explicitly fictional roleplay series.
- Pokemon Friendlocke - A YouTuber's friends play as his Pokémon. Antics ensue.
- Rats SMP - Unique mechanics, explicitly fictional roleplay series.
- SBI Rust - Rust roleplay server that functions nearly identically to the Minecraft SMP format.
- Witch Craft SMP - Explicitly fictional roleplay series.
All of them have obvious narratives that can be troped. Most SMPs end up inherently being tropable due to the in-server happenings and player dynamics, honestly.
Edited by Serilly on Sep 30th 2023 at 6:38:03 AM
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
Had another look at the pages for Mau Ler because there are a lot more than there were for The Critical Drinker - he's got Funny Moments and Trivia and Quotes - and the Funny Moments page has him calling the kid with Aspergers in The Predator 'Ass Burger' the entire time. That's the joke.
But yeah, the Quotes page is just direct quotes from his reviews, the YMMV is about him and his friendships and/or rivalries with other reviewers, and almost every entry on his page begins with 'Defied' or 'Discussed', again taken from his reviews.
Edited by Elmo3000 on Sep 30th 2023 at 2:30:34 PM
He/Him
I think only South Park has made the "Ass Burgers" joke work.
Anyways, yeah that YMMV page and the fact that 90% of the main work page is just him discussing tropes ain't that good. I think this makes me lean more in favor of cutting the guy.
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
(he/any)
Also, before I even do anything with any of the LPs I listed - I can't remember, is our standard to redirect the Lets Play page or just cutlist it? Or does it depend on the page? I know the Dream SMP one is left as a redirect due to how many wicks it has.
Apologies, haven't been here in a while.
Also, I agree on cutting MauLer, I'm not seeing much that's tropable here.
Edited by Serilly on Sep 30th 2023 at 7:23:40 AM
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
He/Him
We just cut the LetsPlay/ redirect for Markiplier because LetsPlay/ is treated as kinda deprecated anyway.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Sep 30th 2023 at 2:28:02 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
(he/any)
I moved SBI Rust and Ivorycello to Web Video since they're my created pages (well, technically for the latter, I just renamed it from her old username)
Not touching the others atm
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
Angry babby
FWIW we don't cut funny moments just because we don't think they're funny ourselves (speaking as an autistic person here).
I'm noticing many tropes about real life that should definitely be cut, though. I don't really mind discussed trope entries since I'm very pro-Books on Trope, but it should be a thorough discussion of the trope that would be beneficial to have on its page as it helps inform the trope's use in media.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
(he/any)
I can make a sandbox for sorting out Lets Play if that would help
Edit: I've started it at Lets Play Wick Sorting
Edited by Serilly on Oct 1st 2023 at 7:38:47 AM
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
(he/any)
Okay, Lets Play Wick Sorting now has every page listed, and I've sorted out some of them that I could figure out easily (though obviously if anyone disagrees with my placings they can be changed)
I do need to take a look back in the forums to see if there's any with discussion that should be sorted into a category.
These ones I think 100% can be easily cutlisted, they're stubs full of RL troping: Dopefish, Eastern Money 128, Fiyah Kitteh, Kirin Dave, Kroma, Lorcain, PC Games Girl, Stri Hiryu, Trask Nari, Willmanda Games
Also there's these hot messes: Gamingandstuff and The Dpads and uh, "this page exists because he wants subscribers": Jellote
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
Agreed on all. One of the pages doesn't have enough tropes, so that can be cut listed without discussion.
Edited by Tabs on Oct 1st 2023 at 11:52:06 AM
I'm Sad Frogerson.
For Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), I feel like it should be moved to Pokecapn, since it was a collaborative LP he did with his friends. Namely, I feel like it shouldn't share the same namespace as the game itself (especially since there's been a lot of LPs of that game), and I already moved a lot of the moments entries (like Awesome Moments, Funny Moments, etc.) to the respective subpages for Pokecapn.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 1st 2023 at 3:22:15 PM
He/Him
Alright, so besides those with a pro-Books on Trope argument, what other arguments does anyone else have for keeping Mau Ler?
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
The Man Outside Reality
(he/any)
On Sonic 06, that sounds fine by me. I can take it out of the section I have it on on the sandbox and make a note of it in a sort of "weird cases" section?
Also, moving some of my first section around because some of those I meant to put in the section below.
Time to go through the forums to move anything (on my sandbox list) that's been discussed that I didn't see.
Edited by Serilly on Oct 1st 2023 at 12:57:13 PM
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
(he/any)
Moved stuff around on my Sandbox page that had discussions. Moved LetsPlay.Dungeons And Drogans to Web Video and cutlisted the redirect because it is just a lost Actual Play and shouldn't be here anyways.
I think I'm gonna probably deal with the leftover SMPs next, because they're the most obvious keepers and are just going to keep accumulating wicks to clean up the longer they sit in Let's Play. Specifically that means moving Afterlife SMP, Empires SMP, Hermitcraft Server, Life SMP, Mianite, Origins SMP and Shady Oaks SMP
Not right this second though because I'm very anxious and don't like doing things without being sure they're okay :'D
LP Deprecation Cleanup | Ask me about SMPLive
x4 I think that even the pro-Books on Trope argument was more "There is nothing wrong generally with a work that discusses a trope more than actually featuring it", not specifically a defence of Mau Ler, since... he doesn't really do that. The tropes listed are just 'Defied: He doesn't like this trope. Discussed: One character in a work is intended to be this trope, but Mauler doesn't like it. Subverted: He's not a fan of this one either.'
x3 That was something on the YMMV page that struck me, it mentions the 'Long Man Bad' thing about him making six hour videos on movies that are two hours long, but it's written decidedly in the tone of 'Anyone who judges his content by its (frankly horrific) length without watching the entire thing first is a simpleton and a fool, and their opinion should be disregarded like the invalid judgement that it is!' And like... no? It is entirely fair and valid to at least form a surface-level opinion based on the length of his videos relative to the length of the content he's reviewing, and conclude "... He goes on a bit, doesn't he?"
Edited by Elmo3000 on Oct 1st 2023 at 10:54:32 AM
There are no creative/narrative tropes in the list, and there are too many "tropes" of one troper gushing about this person and and talking about themselves.