The Hindsight tropes, Hilarious in Hindsight, Harsher in Hindsight, and Heartwarming in Hindsight, are among the most misused Audience Reaction tropes on this site. Many people don't understand that the tropes require more than just "This happened, so that happened", and end up adding examples which either lack connection or the substance that makes them funny/serious/not-so-funny/heartwarming. Some of them may be suited better for other tropes (ex: Life Imitates Art), while some may not belong on TV Tropes at all (such as ones involving politicians, due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment).
Please report any Hindsight example that you feel are questionable, and we'll analyze them to see if they are actually examples or not.
Remember that the Hindsight tropes are Audience Reactions. That means if an example under review discusses significant fan response pointing out the hindsight, the example can't be cut solely for being too tenuous for this thread.
- Creator's character/portrayal dies in work and then creator dies in real life, unless their fictional death is closely similar to their real one (such as Billy Bob Joe portraying a character who dies from pancreatic cancer, then Billy Bob dies from pancreatic cancer himself)
- Mundane word related to something terrible (such as "corona" or "Epstein") unless there's more to the connection (such as someone named "Corona" having the flu)
- Creator appears in work then becomes more controversial later on.
- A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happens in work, then happens in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction around the same time) For once, not everything related to disease has to do with COVID-19, not everything related to racism and Police Brutality has to do with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and not everything related to sexual abuse has to do with #MeToo.
- A common/generic concept was used in this work and then later reused in that work (too loose for a connection, unless the concept is so unique it's identified with the work)
- Two actors appear together then do so in another work
- Hindsight examples involving recent events, due to them often being shoehorns. Specifically:
- COVID-19 examples, before 75% of the population has returned to normal
- George Floyd/2020 Black Lives Matter examples, before protests have declined
- Examples which fall guilty of Older Than They Think, such as "Make X Great Again" slogans. Aside from violating the ROCEJ, this slogan has been in use since the 1940s.
- Characters using slurs which are treated as annoying at worst in the work, but is now harsher due to how severe the slur is made now. Discrimination has always existed with that slur. (May qualify for Values Dissonance if work is at least 20 years old.)
Note: As of January 2022, "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is no longer separate from Harsher in Hindsight.
- The former redirects to the latter and all wicks to the former (with the exception of ones on archive pages and the YMMV Redirects index) must either be moved to the latter (if they're valid) or removed (if they're invalid).
- The subpages for the former are still accessible from this page
. After a subpage for "Funny Aneurysm" Moment has been completely cleaned up, turn it into a redirect to the Harsher in Hindsight subpage for the same medium to preserve inbounds.
Edited by Tabs on Jun 21st 2023 at 11:51:25 AM
Harsher
- Even without the COVID connection being stated outright, none of the examples are valid. People getting sick is not an example of Harsher in Hindsight.
Hilarious
- The bread bowls example is weblinked to a random website with pizza recipes on it. What is a bread bowl? What does it have to do with The Rifleman? Why is it supposed to be funny?
- Not sure on the Vic Morrow example. It doesn't feel right to me, but I can't think of a reason why right now.
I'll also add that these are literally the only things on YMMV.The Rifleman.
Edited by JAG01 on Aug 3rd 2021 at 7:40:55 AM
The Vic Morrow one feels like an actor shoehorn.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The reason it doesn't feel right is because the entry makes no attempt to explain why the second event would have any humour impact on the original event. That's why it feels like an actor shoehorn because, even if it's a deliberate Shout-Out (I don't know if it is), that doesn't by itself guarantee a humour impact on the original scene. The entry is basically expecting the reader to automatically regard father/daughter similarities as funny, which makes it practically ZCE.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 3rd 2021 at 3:07:10 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Since it seems all the examples are questionable and these are the only entry on The Rifleman, should we just cut list the page?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
I agree with the points made for Kirby Super Star.
Only the Great Cave Offensive one can be kept as there are too many similarities and the others are fan myopia shoehorns.
Edited by Nen_desharu on Aug 3rd 2021 at 1:23:48 PM
Kirby is awesome.
Just zapped this from The Simpsons S5 E9 "The Last Temptation of Homer"
- Hilarious in Hindsight:
- Joey Jo-Jo cried out of Moe's and went on bizarre adventures.
Not only is it Fan Myopia, but JoJo's Bizarre Adventure debuted in 1987.
If there are "too many similarities", they aren't actually in the example itself, because it goes into no details about the levels resembling each other, which is the only part that would make me consider it. It is the height of Fan Myopia to consider "protagonist falls down a hole into the story's setting" inherently related to Undertale.
Not Sherlock Holmes
That, on its own, wouldn’t be able to make an example stand. “Person falls down a hole into a cave where flower enemies appear very early on”,on the other hand...
This is on It's Pat!:
Harsher in Hindsight: In 1994, a man obsessing to a literally insane degree over what gender a person is, up to and including wanting to know what private parts they had, was seen as absurd. Now it's recognized as a regular living nightmare for transgender people (not always to the extent of what Kyle does, but otherwise an uncomfortable reminder of how the rest of the world sees them)
Best Ogre
That reads more like Values Dissonance, which is already also on that page anyway.
No longer active.
Admittedly when I added the Great Cave Offensive point years prior, Undertale was at the peak of its popularity, so it was constantly in the back of my mind even if I myself was only familiar with the game in passing. I'll still say that the similarities in "protagonist falls down a hole and encounters another world with flower enemies early on" is too uncanny to not comment on. Since the biggest emphasis seems to be on the flower enemies (which deviate from the basic Alice in Wonderland outline), maybe the point can be rewritten to focus on that.
That said, the level similarity points (which I think were added by someone else) did seem a bit odd.
Edited by bowserbros on Aug 4th 2021 at 2:24:01 AM
Be kind.
The thing about Undertale is that it's deliberately derivative of numerous media and Fox is pretty open about it. Earthbound, of course, but there are blatant references to everything from Mega Man to Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga to Spongebob. Heck, the whole "monsters are trapped underground and you're a bad person for fighting them even though they're constantly attacking you" is taken wholesale from a Sega Genesis game called Crusader of Centy.
So if you see something from an older game (especially the 1990s) and it reminds you of some aspect of Undertale, there's a good chance it was a deliberate nod by Fox rather than lol funny coincidence.
No longer active.
That's a good point; still, Shout-Out tends to attract speculative troping rooted in Fan Myopia a lot of the time (similarly to the hindsight tropes), to the point where it's gotten its own cleanup thread. Not only that, the idea of a killer garden flower isn't exactly something specific to Kirby Super Star in much the same way that the "fell down a hole and entered another world" premise isn't, so I could definitely see someone coming up with that permutation of events purely by coincidence. Those factors combined make me hesitant to call it an intentional reference unless Toby Fox himself confirmed that it is.
Edited by bowserbros on Aug 4th 2021 at 6:48:58 AM
Be kind.
Face/Off, the 90s John Woo film with Nicolas Cage:
- Harsher in Hindsight:
- The movie starts with Archer's son Michael dying in his arms after being shot by Castor Troy. Then there's the fate of John Travolta's son Jett, who died January 2, 2009. — Not really sure about this one, maybe it can work.
- Actual face transplants, now that they're being done, have a loooong way to go before their recipients can pass for ordinary. Seeing Archer and Castor both come out of their transplants with great looks and immediate control of their facial expressions is bound to be frustrating for real graft recipients. — This sounds like one of those complains on how real-life technology doesn't match up to their Hollywood counterparts. Is Back To The Future 2 Harsher as well because we don't have hoverboards IRL? CUT.
- A pre-That '70s Show Danny Masterson plays a guy who attempted to rape Jamie. Masterson was fired from The Ranch after allegations that he had actually raped several women. — Maybe.
- The aforementioned scene of Troy grabbing a teenage girl's backside while dressed as a priest makes for uncomfortable watching after decades of clerical abuse scandals. — Shoehorn.
- Hilarious in Hindsight:
- Any review that slammed the movie on the basis of the "ludicrous" concept of face transplants. Especially the ones that went to great lengths to explain why it's medically impossible. Of course they aren't yet as sophisticated as the film depicts but then again they were "impossible" just a few years back. — This one actually contradicts the Harsher examples, and I can't tell why it's "hilarious" in this particular case. Leaning on cutting both.
- This won't be the last time that C.C.H. Pounder plays a government official who proposes a potential suicide plan. — Actor Myopia.
- Read this. Laugh your ass off. Laugh even more when you learn that at the same time those photos came to light, two more films starring Nicolas Cage and John Travolta were announced. — An outdated entry by a whole decade. Until today, Face/Off remains the one and only film where Cage and Travolta gets to star alongside each other. Gonna cut the second sentence at least.
- This won't be the only time Gina Gershon will play a bad girl who gets into a relationship with the hero without knowing his true identity. — Shoehorning a rather common plot element. CUT.
And... whooo, more Woo. Mission: Impossible II
- Harsher in Hindsight:
- The plane crash in the mountains at the beginning, even though already being very tragic in the movie, becomes a lot harder to watch after the deliberate crash of the Germanwings-Flight in the French alps in March 2015. — Because obviously no movies before 2000 contains a plane crash. CUT.
- The villain's plan being to unleash a deadly virus, now that production on the 7th film has been halted due to coronavirus concerns. — Coronavirus shoehorn, CUT.
- Hilarious in Hindsight:
- One of the songs in the soundtrack is a remixed version of Chris Cornell's song "Mission" (renamed Mission 2000). Six years later and not only did Chris provide the theme song to another famous spy movie, but one from the exact spy movie series many Mission: Impossible fans accuse this movie of trying to imitate its style. — James Bond shoehorn, CUT.
- Another film with Tom Cruise, Knight and Day, would repeat the Critical Research Failure mentioned above, though at least it would manage not to get it mixed with other Spanish festivities. — The "Hilarious" part revolves around two different movies starring Tom Cruise being filmed in Spain. Because obviously no other movies are filmed in that country, right?... CUT.
- One of the songs in the soundtrack is a remixed version
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 6th 2021 at 3:21:41 AM
The Face/Off entries:
- Archer's son was accidentally killed. The real life death of Travolta's son was tragic, but it seems to be linked to long-term health conditions. Remove this.
- I agree that this is just complaining that shows aren't always realistic.
- This might be a legitimate example.
- I agree this isn't an example. I mean, there's not even any hindsight here: even when the film was released in the 1990s there were known clerical abuse scandals.
- This entry is complaining about the complaining. Remove.
- Actors playing similar roles is a bit PSOC.
- The "Read this" link is broken, and there's no attempt in the entry to explain why the link is an example anyway. So, it's violating "Web Links Are Not Examples". As you say, the rest is outdated information. I'd remove the entire entry.
- Very PSOC. Remove.
I also agree with all your Mission Impossible II conclusions.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 5th 2021 at 4:35:53 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Actors playing similar roles/connection of roles via "[Actor] is also [character] and [character]!" is very chairs. It's why Hey, It's That Guy/Voice were salted and funneled into Role Association.
Edited by Theatre_Maven_3695 on Aug 5th 2021 at 11:49:07 AM
Found this on Kramer vs. Kramer:
- Hilarious in Hindsight: While the film was successful enough to not have its reputation totally eclipsed, the name Kramer inevitably brings to mind a certain other character now.
Should it stay, or does it not fit 'cuz it is not really "hilarious"?
"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
No longer active.
Touching back on the Kirby Super Star point, I decided to take a stab at rewriting it to better focus on the parallels that go beyond the basic Down the Rabbit Hole premise:
- Hilarious in Hindsight: The Great Cave Offensive sees Kirby fall down a hole while hiking only to wind up in a vast subterranean world, before quickly encountering two Lovelies— happy-looking but malicious anthropomorphic daisies— that try to attack him. Nineteen years later, Undertale would follow an uncannily similar series of events, with its own protagonist also meeting a happy-looking but malicious anthropomorphic daisy that tries to attack them just after they fall into an underground world while hiking.
Wanted to run it by here before adding it in; the emphasis this time is on the finer details that could seem like a Shout-Out (given how weirdly specific the parallels are) but are just as likely to be an amusing coincidence considering the lack of official confirmation.
Edited by bowserbros on Aug 5th 2021 at 10:21:26 AM
Be kind.
Lots of coffee
Not really any connection beyond the name. More of a One Mario Limit issue than anything.
No longer active.
Regarding the Kramer vs. Kramer point, yeah cut it.
Be kind.
At its very best it constitutes a form of Memetic Mutation, as I have seen some jokes of that nature playing on the same names.
I have not seen any.
"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
Terrialstrasz added a COVID shoehorn to Loki (2021), and the name sounds familiar enough that I'm pretty sure it's not the first time.
- Harsher in Hindsight: "If you think I'm evil, just wait till you see my variants." - said He Who Remains. A shortwhile later, the COVID-19 Pandemic enters a new, deadlier surge fuels by the more contagious Delta variant with the implications that unless the world is sufficiently vaccinated, the virus would continue to mutate and deadlier variants would emerge. Suddenly, a chilling fictional line become much harsher in context of real world events.
We've known since the beginning of the pandemic that new variants were always going to be a 'when', not an 'if', and what was going to matter was how countries handled that. Delta's not the first variant wave we've had (hence its name), and it won't be the last.
The start of Delta's wave also predates the air date of the show's first episode.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 6th 2021 at 2:45:39 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
What about the bread bowls example? Is that legitimate?