Hate Sink cleanup

Cut

Go for it, 43.

Done, left a link to this thread if someone wants to dispute it because lord knows someone will.

Late Cut vote, that was a good layout 43! And I do hope this is the type of discussion that happens more on this thread.

Hey, uh, just dropping by to note I removed a Hate Sink entry on the character page of Ryo Asuka from DEVILMAN crybaby. I find it highly doubtful that he counts, considering the character retains some of the tragic aspects of the original, genuinely loves Akira, and is a listed Magnificent Bastard, but here's the entry in case someone wants to dispute that:

• Hate Sink: His only, even remotely, redeeming trait is his love for Akira (and even then, he has no problem killing off Akira when he tries to stop him), apart from that, Ryo has virtually nothing redeemable or sympathetic about his personality, and he is truly meant to be an absolutely despicable, loathsome character. Even his sad fate at the end is something that he brought all upon himself, when he had every chance to avert it.

I suppose someone could dispute it, but I'm not really seeing an argument for it.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Nov 16th 2020 at 7:34:32 AM

Lmao dice that one.

@ Snoke aka Kylo, Yeah man, it's good to pull the unclear cases to talk about. I agree and I'm open to him being re-added and think this is a great venue for that conversation as well

I added this to HateSink.Live Action TV but does it qualify enough since it's three characters not one:

• Holby City zig-zags this trope:
  • Subverted with Jac Naylor when introduced in 2005, she was introduced as a Jerkass with few redeeming features, but it took a lot of Character Development to make her from someone who was hateful for being uptight and considered snooty, to someone who actually had a Story Arc and issues with a divorce and child later on down the line.
  • Subverted with Henrik Hanssen. He was introduced in October 2010 as a Tyrant Takes the Helm and a Mean Boss (also The Spook) who no-one liked, but since 2014, he's been shown to be a boss who's actually A Father to His Men and his backstory was expanded upon giving him Character Development and is a Benevolent Boss; he's now Commuting on a Bus.
  • Played straight with Cameron Dunn, introduced in 2016, who is portrayed as a Wide-Eyed Idealist, but he's actually a coward, bully, Jerkass and it's ambiguous whether he is a sociopath/psychopath for whom Ambition Is Evil and he uses Jerk Justifications and Never My Fault. His Lack of Empathy and Moral Sociopathy make him someone the audience can easily hate. Although Holby City has No Antagonist (the true antagonist of any season is a medical issue or bureaucracy), since, 2019, this is the closest the series has come to a true villain.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Nov 19th 2020 at 11:19:42 AM

While there may be more than one character intended to draw the audience's ire (key word: intended) the last entry fails to address how much narrative intent is involved.

Fair enough.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 19th 2020 at 9:07:42 AM

We don’t actually approve entries here but honestly I don’t have an issue with the last entry. The authorial intent can be inferred from it.

I do agree that if there isn't much in the narrative to present the character as a HS (or if the authorial intent isn't clear), we can discard that.

Damn, there's barely any recent activity here, eh?

Edited by Spidey on Nov 25th 2020 at 8:08:28 AM

I think is because we realized that this trope is...really subjetive and we need stuff as Word of God and/or extremely overt asshole behaviour to count.

I have some possible Accel World candidates (and I propose some edits and cuts for the SAO Hate Sink page) but given we agree the EP format was kinda a overkill, IDK how manage them

Re: Satan.

LOL, even as someone that personally feels few sympathy for him, putting him in this trope is a massive misuse

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 25th 2020 at 8:27:45 AM

You don't have to propose candidates or cuts here, unless you aren't sure if the example is valid. It's just not that sort of thread. We want to focus on removing misuse, not on approving examples.

So if you think you have examples, add 'em. The only reason to discuss them here is if you want a second opinion. Same with cutting.

Edit: Actually can we get the OP updated? Right now it only says "No Effort Posts" but people still think this is a thread about approving candidates.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 25th 2020 at 8:32:01 AM

Mmmm. Ah, ok.

Also, Noumi from Accel World needs a rewrite because later reveals managed the feat of making him even more unlikeable

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 25th 2020 at 8:46:46 AM

Does he really? All we need from an entry is selling us on why they're intended to be unlikable. This isn't like CM where we need to update every time they get a new deed that proves it.

Can a HS be Laughably Evil? I need to ask because I'm trying to categorize Kilgrave as one on the Pure Evil wiki but someone else keeps editing it out because of his comedic moments.

Edited by WoodsyGrabass2019 on Nov 28th 2020 at 5:25:47 AM

I mean...different wiki, different standards. What we say here might not carry over there.

Right. But still, can a HS be funny?

I mean...I'm not sure they can, because that'd imply the creator wanted the audience to enjoy the character.

Ramsay Bolton both is a HS and provides a fair bit of Black Comedy. Like when he tortures Theon, he alternates between skinning his finger and blowing a horn to wake him up. And don't even get me started on that "pork sausage" thing...

I mean, being a funny character and having a character do some funny things aren't necessarily the same thing. Like I wouldn't call Frollo comedic but he gets some decent lines, like the whole "I had a little trouble with the fireplace" thing.

So being Laughably Evil and being a villain with a few comedic moments aren't the same thing at all.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 28th 2020 at 6:00:46 AM

I'm having my doubts on whether the Shrekified Fairy Godmother truly counts has a Hate Sink. I mean, Farquaad from the first film is completely justified in having the trope. But Fairy Godmother, as nasty and scheming as she is, she gets quite a bit of entertaining moments and steals the show whenever she's onscreen.

Are we sure the FGM is really Hate Sink material?

Shrekified?

Speaking of Hunchback of Notre Dame, would the Brutish and Oafish Guard count? They're just as racist and corrupt as their boss, immediately go from and on one occasion incite a crowd into beating on Quasimodo For the Evulz; Frollo didn't order them to do that, but he allowed it to happen. So the crowd has no problem letting them receive a taste of their own medicine by leaving them for a hard landing when they try Crowd Surfing to pursue Esmeralda. They assist Frollo in burning Paris for the rest of the film. However, they did a Heel–Face Turn by the sequel, as a Freeze-Frame Bonus shows them still in the employ of France.