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My first effortpost, for Riliane Lucifen a'Autriche of the Evillious Chronicles.
Who is she?
Riliane is the tyrant ruler of the country of Lucifenia (the fantasy equivalent of France on the cusp of the French Revolution). She is a teenage girl who became ruler at a young age after her mother's death, and even earlier was separated from her twin brother after her father's death (having her memories of him erased through shenanigans.) Shortly after ascending to the throne she's possessed by a Demon of Pride which warps her personality for the worse. She's eventually overthrown and lives the rest of her life hiding in a monastery.
What is her predicament?
Riliane had a politically tumultuous childhood and lost all of her family members from one strife or another, and has been possessed by a demon twice (the first time is the incident where she was separated from her brother, and while she has lost all of her memories from that period the novel implies she has residual loneliness from her brother's absence. The second time is what develops her into a tyrant.) A queen from a country she thinks is one of their allies actually plots her downfall because of a grudge that she had against Riliane's mother, and was the cause of all of these incidents (though she never learns this.) Riliane comes to believe that she is completely alone and needs to be strong or she'll be taken advantage of. When the revolution happens, she's demoralized as she's abandoned by all of her servants, and she learns that the one person she trusts, a servant who looks like her, is actually her long lost twin brother—but she learns this as he goes to sacrifice himself in her place via a Twin Switch. She escapes and the Demon of Pride leaves her. She winds up adopted in a monastery under a hidden identity, and gradually learns hard work and the value of life—and spends the rest of her life regretting the horrible things she'd done as princess of Lucifenia, to the point that at one point she's perfectly willing to let one of her victims kill her when they find out her identity.
Can she defend herself/is she a Jerkass?
Defense: No, Riliane has been pampered for all of her young life and doesn't know much about combat.
Jerkass: Yes. For most of the story Riliane is cruel, selfish, and arrogant. While she's a princess she orders the deaths of a lot of people, including trying to enact a genocide on the neighboring country because she wants to kill a specific person and doesn't know anything about their identity except for their hair color. A lot of her murderous actions are implicitly because she's been possessed by a demon, though; when the demon is gone and she matures she's just a bit brash.
Riliane's story is mostly told through the eyes of her twin brother, who loves her in spite of the evil she's done. He firmly believes that, as cruel as she is, she's also a product of her situation, and the story puts emphasis on the idea that while she is to some extent responsible for her actions, she is also Lonely at the Top and too young for the duty she inherited (as well as later installments throwing into doubt how responsible she really is with the demonic possession part.) After she joins the monastery, Riliane's story becomes all about her struggle to atone for what she's done and how sorry she is for how she treated people.
I suggest she be put into Jerkass Woobie, or into standard Woobie with clarification that she counts for after the revolution.
Edited by Octoya on Jul 8th 2019 at 11:09:19 AM
To all but Dune-buggy, Pulley-mouth, and Mustard.
Taylor-Jean, Misty, and Riliane.
I would like to add Tal Rasha from the Diablo games (although he's only really important in Diablo II.) As an Iron Woobie
Who Is He
A Horadrim (a group of mages who fought the Prime Evils) who, once the soulstone proved insufficient to contain Baal, had them plunge the soulstone into his own body and bury him.
What's his predicament He's trapped with the spirit of Baal possessing him forever (Implied to be a Fate Worse than Death) even when he's freed in Diablo II it seems that Baal has absorbed him
Can He Fight Back?
Sympathy Standard He made a Heroic Sacrifice to imprison Baal despite knowing he would likely suffer forever as a result. Doesn't get much more sympathetic than that.
How many do you need before you can add a character?
5 and I think you need a more detailed effort post.
What is the work?
Super Paper Mario is the third installment of the Paper Mario series. As the prophesied Heroes of Light, Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, and Bowser must collect the Pure Hearts to stop the mysterious Count Bleck from destroying all worlds. Their guide is Tippi, an amnesiac Pixl who can analyze anything she sees. Every time the player is about to unlock a new chapter, the game cuts to a black screen with white text showing the Interspecies Romance between Blumiere and Timpani. At first, this subplot has no apparent relevance to the main plot, but I'm going to explain its actual importance.
Who is Count Bleck?
Count Bleck is the leader of his minions, which include Nastasia, a stoic secretary who can brainwash people into following her orders; O'Chunks, a Boisterous Bruiser who serves as a crude, non-magical foil to his Gentleman Wizard boss; Mimi, a green-skinned shapeshifter who is obsessed with Rubees; Dimentio, an enigmatic Magical Clown who can create his own dimension; and Mr. L, the brainwashed form of Luigi. He is also the main antagonist of the game since he plans the destruction of all worlds.
What has he endured?
As Blumiere, Count Bleck was a member of the Tribe of Darkness, a reclusive group that diverged from the Tribe of Ancients after stealing the Dark Prognosticus, the forbidden book of prophecies about The End of the World as We Know It, in order to prevent its abuse. When he fell off a cliff, he was found and nursed back to health by a human girl named Timpani.
Sometime after, he found her injured (crying in the North American translation). When he demanded to know what happened, wondering if his father was behind it, she replied: "I'm... I'm just an ordinary girl. No matter how much I love you, we must part. This is good-bye, Blumiere. There's no other choice. This is our fate..." Despite this, their Interspecies Romance went fine for a while, with him promising her that they would find a place where their love could survive. Why would they have to leave, do you ask? Because, as noted by Carson, the Tribe of Darkness avoided mixing with other people out of pride, going as far as to forbid intermarriage so they wouldn't lose their magic (which was said to be stronger within their parent tribe).
Before they could elope as planned, his father cursed her to wander between all dimensions forever. When he demanded to know what happened:
By his own admission in the finale, he desperately searched her in vain, unaware that Merlon turned her into a Pixl, renamed Tippi, in order to save her life. Having become a Straw Nihilist, he took the Dark Prognosticus (presumably in hopes of getting revenge on his father) against his father's warning ("Blumiere, my son, don't! Even your ancestors could not handle that dark book... If you open it... there's no telling what might happen!"). Apparently, With Great Power Comes Great Insanity, as he became the Omnicidal Maniac he is today and ended up destroying his own homeland.
Near the finale, he regrets his quest for destruction upon realizing that it's All for Nothing now that his fiancée is alive all along. Believing himself to have gone too far, he decides to fight Mario anyway in hopes of dying at the latter's hands. When he's dying as a result of his defeat, Dimentio tries to assassinate the count and ends up shooting Nastasia instead, revealing that the Monster Clown was Playing Both Sides to steal the Chaos Heart from the count so he can remake existence to his whims. After Dimentio's defeat, the count and Tippi sacrifice themselves as an Act of True Love to save all worlds. Their fate is unknown, but Nastasia senses that they're alive and happy somewhere.
Is he a Jerkass?
It's complicated. He hides his actual intention to destroy everything and keep them in ruin by telling his minions except Nastasia that he plans to create a new, perfect world for them. However, he's Affably Evil and capable of kindness at the same time; not only he never punishes his minions for their failures, but also he offers Nastasia (who is implied to be the bat he once saved from a trap during his search) a chance to resign when she's hesitant to go through with his plans.
Can he defend himself?
Not only he's a powerful wizard who specializes in darkness-based spells, but also the Chaos Heart serves as an invulnerable barrier around him until the Pure Hearts destroy it during his fight with the Heroes of Light. The only time he can't fight back is when he's dying as a result of his defeat.
He's by far the most sympathetic and tragic character in the game.
for keeping him as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jul 27th 2019 at 11:02:36 PM
to Riliane and Bleck.
Can Woobie Species refer to what's technically a group of people rather than a species? I was thinking the Rogue Sisterhood from Diablo II would count as they have had 90 percent of their population turned into demons.
No, a species is a species no matter what.
Do you remember when I proposed Sigma as a Jerkass Woobie from Tweeny Witches? Here's my second candidate from the same setting, and I modified the summary to make it easier to understand the entire plot.
What's the work?
Tweeny Witches is a dark but idealistic Magical Girl anime series produced by Studio 4°C. The premise is similar to Little Witch Academia, a newer anime series produced by Studio Trigger (which happens to include former Studio 4°C members), in that The Protagonist is a young Japanese Genki Girl who follows her missing role model's footsteps by challenging the traditionalism of the real witches with the belief that magic should be used For Happiness. In this setting, Arusu has a vision of a mysterious masked figure who sends her to Another Dimension called the Magical Realm. As Atelia arranges for her to live as an apprentice witch, she embraces the local lifestyle alongside her native housemates, Sheila and Eva, who must recapture the fairies she has released back to the wild for the Grand Master of Witches to dispel the Curse of Eternal Youth, which has been given to the two girls as punishment for failing to supervise the human girl. During the second half of the series, the warlocks begin their attack on the Witch Realm in search of the resources they need to use dark magic, a forbidden spell which Grande intends to destroy the Human Realm for his species to escape the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm. In order to save both dimensions, Arusu, the prophesied savior, must find a way to cast the magic of light, the legendary spell said to be the only thing that can dispel dark magic.
Who is Atelia?
Atelia is the most active member of the Three Sages, a coven of second-highest-ranking figures in the Witch Realm. She often helps the Arusu subtly, ordering her unharmed no matter what and arranging for her to live as an apprentice witch, despite the girl's rebellious tendencies.
What has she endured?
By order of the Grand Master of Witches, Atelia fought alongside the wizards to retrieve the True Book of Spells from the warlocks. She first met Jidan, whose pacifism gave her a great shock, when she released the innocent human from prison. They secretly married for love against the law of the witches and had a happy life with their son, Lennon, in an isolated village until the wizards retrieved the True Book of Spells, which made her remember her identity as a witch. She decided to deliver it back to the Grand Master of Witches in order to prevent the warlocks from destroying her husband's home dimension with dark magic. But as the man knew, she would have to abandon their mixed-race family if she was to carry out her decision, lest they be outcasts in the traditionalist society of the Witch Realm. While she was asleep crying, the man took the child and the book to prevent her from facing persecution and using her magic in feuds. Realizing what happened, she visited an old wizard named Wil, who hid the man and child, in vain search of the family with whom she wanted to stay no matter what.
Since then, she spent 14 years being separated from her family and became a sage at some point. In the present day, when Sheila spies on her in search of the traitor among the witches, the person secured by the warlocks to cast dark magic, the apprentice witch ends up seeing the sage crying over a portrait of a couple holding their baby, which is presumably based on the latter's family. After recognizing her now teenage son, whom she hadn't seen since he was just a toddler, she summons him and the Magical Girl Squad (a trio of Arusu, Sheila, and Eva) into her presence and orders them to give her the True Book of Spells. She falsely tells him that she's not the woman he's looking for, but he threatens to burn the book if she keeps denying the truth, so she and he reveal their family history to the three girls anyway. She tells him about her husband's actions and that she wanted to stay with her family if she could, but the boy refuses to accept the truth and tries to kill her, swearing never to forgive her for supposedly abandoning him and his father just to be in power. Although Arusu holds him back and tries to calm him down, the sage's word that she doesn't deserve to be forgiven implies her willingness to let him kill her anyway.
When the special task force begins their rebellion, the Magical Girl Squad takes Lennon to Dragon Palatium, where the three girls save her from possible death. She tells him that she gave him up to protect magic as the successor to the Grand Master of Witches; this causes him to tearfully declare that she's not his mother. When he leaves Dragon Palatium, the warlocks mistake him for Arusu and capture him away, holding his imprisoned father hostage for the whereabouts of the True Book of Spells. At first, she's hesitant to rescue her family because her sense of duty as a leader demands that she protect her people's tradition no matter what she has to sacrifice. Arusu disagrees and tells her that the sage will regret it if she refuses to save her family from the warlocks. This motivates her to pull a Zero-Approval Gambit, where she offers herself in exchange for her son's freedom, quits her job as a leader and prepares to face mob justice with dignity for breaking her own people's tradition. Jidan, who has escaped a 6-year-long imprisonment with the help of his cellmate, Sigma, frees her and pulls a Heroic Sacrifice by offering himself to Luca's men in her place. When Arusu asks her where the man is, the grief-stricken witch implies his (possible) death, unaware that he has survived and returned home to the Human Realm (as revealed at the very end). Lennon, having accepted the truth as told by Wil, reconciles with her and decides to stay with her until the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm.
In the Grand Finale, when the Grand Master of Witches demands to know why the former sage would protect Eva, the (unwilling) traitor among the witches, she declares her resignation again and says she's "just a woman who realized what the most important thing is"note this line is taken from the official subtitles distributed by Media Blasters. However, after Arusu dispels dark magic with the magic of light, the witch is seen coming back to her former position as one of the Three Sages without any visible repercussions against her son — presumably by permission of the Grand Master of Witches herself.
Is she a Jerkass?
In contrast to Arusu, she tends to be motivated by a sense of duty as a leader rather than a personal sense of right and wrong, making some of her actions morally questionable. For example, she orders the escaped fairies (which the witches keep in the holding facility as the resources they need to cast magic spells) recaptured, sentences Qoo to exile for not being able to pass the witch evaluation (though she cancels her order when the apprentice witch succeeds in turning a petrified Arusu back to normal), once denies her connection to her son and hesitates to save him and her husband from the warlocks at first. However, she's not without compassion, as seen in her relationship with Arusu, and spends all her screen time being a usually stoic Proper Lady without the slightest mean streak.
Can she defend herself?
As seen in "Lennon's True Identity", she used to be a capable Lady of Black Magic during the war against the warlocks. In "Hydra's Attack", she easily deals with the hydra fairy's large-scaled rampage in contrast to the other sages and the special task force. Even when the Mystical Plague (which arrives as a warning sign of the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm) begins to weaken her, she's able to defend herself from the special task force even if for a short time.
She has been unwillingly separated from her only child for the longest time in a setting where Parental Abandonment is common. She also stands out by being Star-Crossed Lovers with her human husband.
for keeping her either as an Iron Woobie or as a Stoic Woobie. Which type do you think she fits?
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jul 28th 2019 at 5:01:25 PM
Yes to Atelia as a Iron Woobie.
to Atelia, and I agree she sounds like an Iron Woobie.
Thought I'd drop by and let you all know I deleted a bunch of zero-context and poorly written Woobie examples on the Woobie.Fire Emblem page. I still think Pelleas deserves to be a Woobie - you know what, I'll just do him right now.
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn is the tenth game in the Fire Emblem series and a direct sequel to Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. It is set three years after Path of Radiance and details the people of the villainous kingdom from the previous war struggling to overthrow an abusive suzerain, leading to a world war.
Who is Pelleas?
Pelleas is the alleged son of Ashnard, the Big Bad of Path of Radiance, and king of Daein through most of the events of Radiant Dawn.
What is his predicament?
Pelleas is introduced as the son of King Ashnard of Daein, the figurehead of the revolution against the Begnion Empire, and heir apparent to the Daein throne. Pelleas proves to be horribly unsuited for this role and repeatedly shows himself to be a Horrible Judge of Character by deferring to his Obviously Evil assistant Izuka. Things really start to go downhill for him after the conclusion of part 1, when Izuka dupes him into signing a Blood Pact with the head of Begnion's senate, Lekain. This Blood Pact can kill innocent Daein civilians if Pelleas does not do as Lekain tells him; one on the first day, two on the second, three on the third, and so on, meaning Lekain can potentially wipe out all of Daein if Pelleas tries to rebel against him. Under the threat of the Blood Pact, Pelleas is forced to drag his kingdom into a war Daein has no business getting involved with, getting many of his soldiers killed and causing his subjects to lose faith in him. He eventually learns that the Blood Pact can be terminated with the death of one of the contractors and the destruction of the physical parchment and orders his subordinates to kill him in order to stop the Pact. On the player's first playthrough, someone does go through with killing him, but since the document was not destroyed, this accomplishes nothing except transferring the Pact to his top general. On the second playthrough onwards, he can be convinced to stand down and eventually joins the playable party. In part 4, he learns that Izuka had been lying to him all along and that he was just a random orphan manipulated into furthering Begnion's plans. In addition, when he confronts the true Big Bad and learns of his unwitting role in causing the end of the world, he is reduced to a puking mess. Thankfully, the poor guy does get to abdicate the throne and retire to a peaceful life at court if he survives the game's events.
Can he defend himself/is he a Jerkass?
Pelleas is never a jerkass at any point. For just shy of the first three quarters of the game, he is a backline commander and never takes to the battlefield himself. If he is prevented from making his Senseless Sacrifice, however, he does join the front line and is capable of personally killing all three of the men most directly responsible for his suffering.
Pelleas is one of the most tragic characters in the game, and his role in the game's events is one long litany of suck.
It's kinda weird due to the two potential endings to his storyline; I'd say he makes it to Iron Woobie in the end given that he does rise above his suffering, can take revenge on his enemies, and earns his happy ending, and I would assume good endings are considered canon unless directly stated otherwise.
The consensus on the thread seems to be that Atelia is an Iron Woobie rather than a Stoic Woobie even though she rarely shows her personal emotions and suffering openly. I would like to know how to distinguish both types from each other.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jul 14th 2019 at 1:25:10 AM
Can I do an effortpost on Jill Fizzart also from Fire Emblem Tellius?
She was raised to hate laguz but compared to most examples, had no choice and her father and mother from Begnion were cruelly taken from her. Her story is pretty sad.
Might do an Effortpost on Sephiran/Lehran as a WDOW.
Also, an Iron Woobie doesn't need to show their pain. I'd say a Stoic Woobie is one who rarely shows emotion at all like Auron from Final Fantasy X.
Edited by Klavice on Jul 13th 2019 at 9:23:27 AM
Pardon me if I've misunderstood anything but qould I be able to add Riliane to Jerkass Woobie now? Are there specific standards of writing the entry or do I just make sure to include the important parts of my effortpost? ooo
Please wait for one more .
all of the candidates I missed
And yay for 1000 post
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How well does it match the trope?