During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Best Smile
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mr. Pink, Pollock, Alexander, Croker, Jack, Bronn, Khan, Molly, Cian, Olenna, Calensk.
Abstain on Fanfic!Molly.
Cut Tanith.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Yes to the next Molly. Sad cut to Tanith.
Showtime!
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Fanfic Molly
Khan, Molly, Cian, Olenna, Calensk.
Professor Gigachad
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yo, Senator Steven Armstrong from Revengeance has his own page now. I took care of the YMMV and the Sandbox, but Magnificent Bastard Metal Gear will need to be swapped.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Molly.
Transformers: Cyberverse is the show that definitively proved, even when a legitimate threat, Starscream is a useless idiot. I tried to see if I could get another Soundwave up, but he unfortunately doesn't really do anything before turning good — he's suitably magnificent in the finale, but only has one morally dubious moment that isn't expanded on. I did, however, find a certain other Decepticon whose name ends with wave.
Who is Shockwave?
Shockwave, as usual, as the Decepticon's resident Mad Scientist responsible for designing all of Megatron's evil doomsday weapons. The plot of the first season revolves around the Autobot Windblade and an amnesiac Bumblebee on the run from Starscream's Seekers on Earth, with Windblade regularly delving into Bee's mind for exposition I mean to recover his memories. In his first major appearance, Shockwave hijacks this mental connection to plant false memories, trying to convince Bee he was really a Decepticon spy while simultaneuously remotely hijacking their ship to deliver the pair to the Seekers. Unfortunately, he gets a bit too greedy and tries to make Bee think Optimus was also a double agent. Bee, too faithful in our good old Robo Jesus to fall for the trick, escapes the mental world and initiates the ship's self-destruct function, escaping with Windblade.
When the Seekers report back to their bosses on Cybertron, Starscream is... well, you know, Starscream. By which I mean a whiny bitch. Shockwave, however, sends the Seekers instructions to rebuild the teleportation thing Windblade used to get to Earth, arriving long before the Decepticon armada can even prepare to leave Cybertron. Once there, Shockwave immediately puts into motion a plan to completely destroy the planet so they can search through the rubble for the AllSpark later. It fails because the Seekers are idiots, but Shockwave brushes off the loss, having smuggled one of his drones onto the Autobot ship. He spies on and intercepts them when they locate where the rest of the Autobots in stasis are, sneaking off during the ensuing fight to trigger a volcanic eruption in a last ditch effort to kill them all. They manage to get their ship's shields up... just in time for the armada to arrive.
From then on he mostly serves as the Hypercompetent Sidekick to Megatron's schemes, always managing to locate whatever McGuffin he's currently looking for and preparing backup plans for their various plots. In one notable case, Shockwave captures the Autobot Wheeljack to help him catch the renegade Starscream, even having a cute little detachable drone hand to hold him at gunpoint while he's away. Wheeljack of course manages to reprogram the drone and escape, but Shockwave uses the device he invented to do so to take control of Starscream's energy-draining minions.
Later, when the Autobots try to return to their homeworld, Shockwave seemingly destroys the aforementioned teleportation thing... only to reveal to Megatron that it was just a giant hologram. While the Autobots take the long way back home, the Decepticons can just teleport there and prepare a trap — a giant laser snare Shockwave uses to immediately destroy their ship when it returns to Cybertron (the Autobots predicted this and escaped beforehand, but still pretty efficient). Shockwave once again fucks off as the fighting begins, activating... giant robot clones of himself, okay... to secure the AllSpark. He's beaten, but the device Megatron was going to use to take control of it is destroyed anyway, so he orders Shockwave to destroy the AllSpark too. Shockwave complies, sacrificing his soul spark to corrupt it and forcing another Autobot to do the same to save the planet.
Is He Magnificent?
He's a bit more prideful than usual (goes on a bit of a long rant about how Seekers are inferior), but otherwise he makes it. Shockwave is the genius behind Megatron's forces, with many of their victories being solely possible because of his efforts. He is utterly loyal to the Decepticon cause, to the point where he will give up his own life without hesitation to secure their ultimate victory, and is in general just pretty awesome.
Is He a Bastard? Too Much of One?
His very soul is evil enough to kill a planet. I don't think much elaboration is needed there.
Now, his second major appearance has him try to wipe out all life on earth, but... eh, Megatron also tries that the moment he shows up, and there are a bunch of other Omnicidal Maniacs out there. Shockwave's noticeable but ultimately a small fry in the heinousness department, don't think it's so evil as to detract from the magnificence.
Goku Black
shockwave
A total has-been.
Shockwave
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Shockwave, Molly
The quote from Wyman seems to be good for the Song of Ice and Fore page, but I think I found a good image of Bronn for the page too. I'm on mobile so I can't upload it yet, but it's the I Fight To Win card art for a CCG.
Yes to Shockwave but I'm gonna lean no to the 2nd Molly based on some points brought forth.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 17th 2022 at 4:23:31 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Yes to one of the two Transformers characters whose name starts with an S and ends with a Wave, cut Tanith. I'll abstain from the fanfic Molly.
I'm also mildly salty that work made me miss out on a discussion on Toph. Like, I don't think she counts, but that's a brilliant outside-the-box suggestion.
for Jack Lane, Bronn (tentative), Khan, Molly, Cian, Olenna, Calensik, Fanfic!Molly (tentative), and Shockwave.
Cut Tenith.
A total has-been.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Y'know what, I'll second that. I also don't think she counts and would vote no were she EP'd, but I was never against the simple act of raising the possibility on the thread and I hate and regret so much that I killed my future on this thread by stupidly wording things as though I did.
And if that EP does end up happening, I promise to be more open-minded than I was today. 
Edited by ANewMan on Feb 17th 2022 at 5:21:02 AM
Yes to Shockwave. Had a rough day at work here folks. Bear with me, I might be a bit slow for updating and whatnot.
Goku Black
Nah its fine. We all have lives.
If you want help. Please feel free to ask.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shockwave.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Aye to Shockwave.
Speaking of unexpected candidates à la Toph and fanfic Joffrey ? Well, I have an unexpected candidate I'm iffy on regarding the bastard criteria.
What's the work?
This War of Mine. See here for details.
Who are Future Son Goku and Future Piccolo? What have they done?
Now, the both of them are every bit as dead as they were in canon (dying to a heart virus and the future androids, respectively), so it's a bad start.
That being said? As it becomes clearer that Future Cell could become too much for Gohan to handle in the long run, Goku and Piccolo come up with a gambit to defeat Cell.
When Ruby Rose is killed by Cell during the Fall of Beacon? Goku has King Kai request to have her brought to King Kai's planet, meaning Ruby gets to keeps her body as she spams her Semblance through the Snake Way to reach King Kai's planet.
Once she arrives there? Goku, Piccolo and King Kai decide to train her (read : Training from Hell to ridiculous extents, both improving Ruby's strengths and eliminating her weaknesses) so she can catch up with Yang, Pyrrha and Blake (who were trained in ki by Gohan, after all, so they were leaps and bounds ahead of most of their classmates)) back on Earth, teaching her Kaioken and Instant Transmission as well. On the meanwhile? Remember the day during which Present Goku was allowed to come back to Earth during the early Buu saga? Well, here, Fanfic Future Goku decides to use that day differently.
Once Ruby is deemed ready? Goku and Piccolo take the next step of their plan, with the former using his day, teleports to Namek, and uses two of the three wishes allowed by the Namek Dragon Balls to resurrect Future Piccolo and Ruby.
By resurrecting the former, they also get the opportunity to resurrect Kami, and thus the Earth Dragon Balls are brought back, which will allow them to repair the damage caused by the Future Androids and Future Cell once the latter is defeated. The Earth Dragon Balls are also kept as contingencies, hence why they aren't immediately used. After recovering the Earth Dragon Balls, Ruby teleports to Remnant while Goku and Piccolo stay on Earth some more.
Saying goodbyes to his friends and wife Chi-Chi while informing them of his plan, Goku takes some Senzu Beans after leaving Piccolo on the Lookout with Kami. Teleporting to Remnant, and more accurately to the group later known as Remnant's strongest (Ruby, Gohan, Cinder, Blake, Yang, Pyrrha, Weiss, Qrow and Raven, with Piccolo and Future Android 16 joining later on) after they got lolstomped by Perfect Cell, Goku saves the group Just in Time from certain death and give them the Senzu Beans to heal them.
Now, Goku, having achieved Super Saiyan 2 in the afterlife, is easily powerful enough to roflstomp Perfect Cell to the point it'd make canon Gohan look merciful. But here? He'll go with another way to defeat him, as he wants to pass the torch to Remnant's strongest as protectors of the Earth and Remnant.
Pretending to be as strong as Cell at best, he engages him while making sure Gohan watches so that the latter can analyze and adapt to Cell's fighting style to be able to react to it later on when he gets to fight Cell once more.
Interrupting the fight (after nearly killing Cell with a Kamehameha, only sparing him because he chose to, unbeknownst to Cell), Goku then goads Cell into waiting 7 days before engaging Remnant's strongest once more, playing on Cell's Blood Knight personality by telling them the group will be strong enough to kill Cell by then. Essentially manipulating Cell into starting the Cell games.
Why seven days, you may ask? Well, Goku did that to ensure all members of the group (aside from Android 16 due to joining much later) would have the opportunity to train as duos in the Room of Spirit and Time and thus would be prepared by then.
Spending his remaining minutes with Gohan, Goku expresses his pride in him and says goodbye to him and the group before returning to the afterlife.
While the fanfic sadly died before Cell's defeat was shown, it was shown that Goku and Piccolo's plan had its merits. Even though they came back to Remnant a day earlier than expected (much to Piccolo's protests before he relented) due to Cell destroying Atlas and a good part of Mistral, Remnant's strongest had drastically improved in power, with Cinder and Weiss's Fusion Empress mollywopping the Cell Jrs. and giving Future Cell a decent fight despite being human and far weaker than him.
Are they charming? Intelligent?
They keep the exact same likeable personalities they had in canon, down to Goku's pure heart and Piccolo's gruff but but caring nature. The author went out of his way to keep them in character.
These guys came up with an elaborate plan to defeat Cell with contingencies, manipulated him into setting up the Cell Games, not only took Ruby Rose as their student - allowing her not only to catch up with the much stronger Yang, Pyrrha and Blake, who were trained by Gohan after all, but to surpass Qrow and Raven and curb-stomp her mother, who's a double Maiden as well as freeing her from Salem's brainwashing, erasing Salem's last trump card - but also managed to create a situation to satisfy both Cell's Blood Knight tendencies and Remnant's strongest's need to become stronger in a short period of time.
Thinking on their feet?
I wouldn't necessarily say Xanatos Speed Chess, but they show they're Crazy-Prepared : Piccolo's resurrection means Earth's Dragon Balls can be used once more, they kept the third wish from the Namekian Dragon Balls for later use, Goku took Senzu Beans before going to Remnant, allowing him to heal Remnant's strongest after the beatdown Perfect Cell unleashed on them.
When left with only minutes before returning to the afterlife due to the Super Saiyan 2 transformation depleting much faster the time he has left, Goku manipulates Cell into setting up the Cell Games.
What about the competition?
Cell was pretty much utterly played on that one, from what we've seen so far, despite being a genius of his own right. Nothing he did later on, not even exploiting a Loophole Abuse in the deal to have fun destroying Atlas and Vaco, can't be resolved by the Dragon Balls.
Are they bastards?
Barely, but they do enough imo. Goku and Piccolo's plan to have Remnant's strongest - and Gohan in particular - defeat Cell is still a gigantic gamble over theirs, Earth and Remnant's lives (keep in mind, aside from Gohan and Piccolo, Remnant's strongest still have a lot to catch up to, with Yang, Pyrrha and Cinder barely defeating Freeza for example), with Gohan himself — in the midst of figuring out Goku's plan —, despite itching to personally end Cell, admitting that a small part of him does hate his father for not going all out and annihilating Cell given that unlike the canon "Goku vs. Cell", Goku is much, much stronger than Cell and could've lolstomped him had he chosen to go all out from the start.
As Cinder puts it while watching them fight : "I didn't know our survival was nothing more than a game to (Goku & Cell)".
Piccolo is on board with this plan while fully aware of its risks and dangers so he makes it by extension.
As for Dragon Ball's Death Is Cheap tendencies ? It's downplayed here (Goku can't be resurrected due to his death being a "natural" one, thanks to the heart virus). Ruby notes that dying and being resurrected later on left psychological scars not everyone could get over and that she wouldn't wish it on anybody. So, Piccolo wanting to use all 7 days to train even when Cell decided to destroy Atlas and Mistral for kicks and slaughter countless people leads to Ruby calling him out on it before most of the group leave early to engage Cell.
Too much of bastards ?
Not remotely close. This is still Goku and Piccolo we're talking about by the end of the day. Pretty much all of their positive traits are still strong here by the end of the day.
Any other mitigating factors?
Nope.
Verdict?
Up to you guys.
Preemptive write-up
- This War of Mine : Future Son Goku and Future Piccolo, while long dead, remain the fighting geniuses they were in canon. Coming up with a plan to take down Future Cell and save Earth and Remnant, Goku and Piccolo brutally trained Ruby Rose for months after her death in the Fall of Beacon, significantly increasing her overall strength and skills. Allowed to return to the mortal world for a day for his good deeds, Goku used that reward to use the Namek Dragon Balls to resurrect Ruby and Piccolo, bringing back the Earth Dragon Balls for later use. Teleporting to Remnant to rescue his son Future Son Gohan, Ruby and their allies from Perfect Cell, Goku engages Cell, while ensuring Gohan could observe Cell's fighting style. Left with little time before going back to the afterlife, Goku manipulates Cell into setting up the Cell Games in a week, allowing Gohan, Ruby and their allies to train in the Room of Spirit and Time to become strong enough to confront Cell by then, willing to risk innocent lives to save them and ensure the new generation could measure up.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 17th 2022 at 3:26:02 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Classy, Refined, Unstable
, Molly, Shockwave
Professor Gigachad
Goku (never thought I would say that) and Piccolo
A total has-been.
Sure to Future Goku and Piccolo.
RIP Toriyama
Yee to Shockwave, Goku and Piccolo
Seeing as another season has been announced, Scrags and I are gonna reserve the next season of Fargo. G and I also gonna grab both Sonic the Hedgehog sequels (third one was announced recently lol) and the spinoff Knuckles show.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Sure to Goku and Piccolo here.
Canon Piccolo could probably have a good argument made for him as well.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Yes to Goku and Piccolo. Haha I fully and unironically look forward to the Sonic movie discussion there Rav!
After thinking about it... I'll lean just yes to Fanfic Molly. Pulling a gun on her estranged BFF for her husband's keys isn't exactly the most moral way to ask for these.
I can be convinced otherwise though.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)